View Full Version : Lowering kit causes negative camber
NovaBoi92
20-03-11, 03:01 PM
I've been driving my nova for about 3 weeks since I put the lowering kit on, I'm pretty sure its 60mil all round. I noticed yesterday that the front wheels have a fair bit of negative camber, and checking the inside of the tyres, they're nearly bald on the inner edge. What can I do to fix this? Is there any different type of lowering kit I can put on? thanks
craig green
20-03-11, 03:12 PM
That is what happens when you compress the fr struts, the wheel moves up in an arc & creates the negative camber. Raising the suspension will bring it back into line.
The best way to rectify it assuming you wanty to stay low is to somehow move the top mount (upper suspension location point) outwards either side.
Expensive option is eccentric alloy top mounts, or cheaply to file the 2 holes in the turret outwards in an elongated fashion & physically move the top mounts outward. I could never get mine to stay put even when overtightening the nut, so I'd advise either welding on a washer in the new hole position or using an adjustable type strut brace to keep the mounts in the new position.
Get the tracking re-set after performing this change obv.
brainsnova
20-03-11, 03:14 PM
Since you've dropped it 60mm the camber gets knocked out. Iirc you elongate the bottom shocky hole and put thick washer on that gets welded on after you set it
craig green
20-03-11, 03:16 PM
Thats another way of doing it, but a bit more risky in terms of component strength where it matters. Welding to the lowewr strut is avoidable the way I suggest.
have you had your tracking done since lowering it? because they could be the reason its killed your tyres. 60mm drop shouldnt be that boad on your tyres/camber
Southie
20-03-11, 03:43 PM
Also LMF do camber adjustment bolts ;)
Make sure your tracking is correct first though.
Also LMF do camber adjustment bolts ;)
This! I have them and would recommend them.
Deffo get the tracking done though.
NovaBoi92
20-03-11, 04:30 PM
when the car was driven back when i first picked it up, the tracking was spot on, steering wheel 100% straight etc.. and since its been lowered - in a straight line the steering wheel is slightly to the left. I thought this was possibly because of the camber problem? or could the lowering have put the tracking out then?
The lowering will have put the tracking out, 100%
brainsnova
20-03-11, 04:31 PM
Lowering a standard nova automatically knocks the camber out. Basic tracking only covers the toe not the camber.
NovaBoi92
20-03-11, 04:36 PM
we'll ill get the tracking checked anyway, bt the camber is visibly negative. could it be a combination of camber and tracking
Steve0011
20-03-11, 04:49 PM
nowt wrong with a 'bit' neg camber 1-2 degrees :-) helps with a better turn in.
as said elongate strut tops and an adjustable strut brace will help
NovaBoi92
20-03-11, 05:03 PM
Strange thing I've just noticed, the o/s tyre isn't even half as worn as the n/s? And the tyres were even when I put them on, why could this be?
I've just taken another look and the n/s wheel has considerably more negative camber than the other wheel? :-S
tommy8252
20-03-11, 05:24 PM
What shocks are you using? Are they new or second hand as you could have more wear on one side due to a dead/dying shocker.
General Baxter
20-03-11, 05:32 PM
http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123234&highlight=camber
NovaBoi92
20-03-11, 06:17 PM
I took the whole suspenion from my old nova, so it's second hand. And I don't know about before that, if it was bought new or not. Maybe if I get better struts and just transfer the springs over?
brainsnova
20-03-11, 07:08 PM
My mums polo was standard but she rallied it up a kerb knocking the camber out and got told it was too old and they never had the settings :tard: so I done it myself with some jacks and a spirit level lol tyres a year on still look like new. Btw theres adjustment on a vw.
C612DNM
20-03-11, 08:22 PM
As Steve0011 said - nothing wrong with some neg camber. It'll help the handling. It sounds like your tracking is out, maybe only a little, but enough to eat the inside of the tyre.
20-30minutes of toe out at the front is OK for road use, and a good setting for track-day use too.
Too much negative camber can make is a bitch to get off the start - which, if Santa Pod is your bag, it may be worth going for adjustable top mounts.
NovaBoi92
21-03-11, 02:28 AM
Too much negative camber can make is a bitch to get off the start - which, if Santa Pod is your bag, it may be worth going for adjustable top mounts.
by get off the start, you mean pull off? when I try to pull away quickly, it's the left hand wheel that always spins up very easily. so this is because of the camber, too?
brainsnova
21-03-11, 02:35 AM
Yes cause it has less contact on the road to the other.
If I'm lowering a standard nova 60mm all round its not going to affect it that much is it?? is it worth buying the alloy top mounts or should it be just left? car is just a 1.2 and for road use
I didn't even know it affected camber that badly when lowering?
60mm drop won't give you massive camber change, with retracking, but just keep checking the tyre wear, you may need to turn the tyres at some point.
MattBrown
21-03-11, 10:22 AM
I had moderate camber, which improved handling down the lanes.
But as said, spins really easily off the line.
NovaBoi92
21-03-11, 11:01 AM
One suggestion I got from someone was maybe the suspension strut is bent, which would explain why it's worse on one side. Thinking about this, it does make sense, because as i said I took the suspension from my old nova and I did notice that on that, the n/s wheel set back quite alot in the arch, like the wheel was more toward the rear of the car if you see what I mean, so it must have had a knock on a kerb or something and bent suspension. I think I'll try 2 different suspension struts
One suggestion I got from someone was maybe the suspension strut is bent, which would explain why it's worse on one side. Thinking about this, it does make sense, because as i said I took the suspension from my old nova and I did notice that on that, the n/s wheel set back quite alot in the arch, like the wheel was more toward the rear of the car if you see what I mean, so it must have had a knock on a kerb or something and bent suspension. I think I'll try 2 different suspension struts
If thats the case, it will be the tiebar that is bent or the front tiebar mounting is coming away from the car or the tiebar nut on the front is loose (althoughj you would notice a knock if that was the case), not the strut.
My girlfriend managed to straighten a tiebar once by ramming full bore into a kerb whilst learning to drive. Never seen anything like it lol
But it will need tracking! If you've not tracked it since you lowered it, you will be experiencing all the things you mention!
My girlfriend managed to straighten a tiebar once by ramming full bore into a kerb whilst learning to drive. Never seen anything like it lol
As in bent it back to standard shape spot on, or made it back into straight bar with bends at all? lol
One suggestion I got from someone was maybe the suspension strut is bent, which would explain why it's worse on one side. Thinking about this, it does make sense, because as i said I took the suspension from my old nova and I did notice that on that, the n/s wheel set back quite alot in the arch, like the wheel was more toward the rear of the car if you see what I mean, so it must have had a knock on a kerb or something and bent suspension. I think I'll try 2 different suspension struts
the bottom arm is also made of the same stuff as curly-wurly, and when bent will cause the wheel to pull back in the arch. get the tape measure out..
the strut is way harder to bend, cos if it had a bent rod, it would struggle to ride bumps
Plus the shafts in the dampers will be made of hard as nails stuff similar to tool steel for wear, it won't bend easily it will just snap more likely.
NovaBoi92
21-03-11, 12:28 PM
right well first off I'll just swap over front struts and see if that sorts the camber problem on the n/s wheel, if it does then i suppose its just a problem with the strut. Going to get the tracking checked now too. thanks for the help everyone
right well first off I'll just swap over front struts and see if that sorts the camber problem on the n/s wheel, if it does then i suppose its just a problem with the strut. Going to get the tracking checked now too. thanks for the help everyone
did you not read the last few posts.. if the wheel is back, it is not the strut!!! it is the tiebar or the bottom arm.. swap the strut and you will simply have swapped the strut & not fixed the problem
NovaBoi92
21-03-11, 12:36 PM
no the wheel was back on my old nova that i took the suspension off, i was making the point that the previous owner must have driven into a kerb which damaged the suspension, which i then put onto my current car.
NovaBoi92
21-03-11, 12:39 PM
and that kerb damaged may have done something to the suspension strut on the left side, which is now on the car, and swapping that over to the other side to see if it has the same effect on the camber on the other wheel
ok, my bad.. changing the strut won't do a thing.. look in the back of the haynes, chapter 13?? it shows how to adjust camber with a round file..
the bottom arm is designed to deform in an accident, protecting everything else
your major trouble is still tracking.
get it laser tracked, i had mad camber problems with running cheap coilovers but i scrapped the car so never got it sorted. but i was told getting the alignment and tracking would of solved it :)
NovaBoi92
21-03-11, 12:44 PM
thankyou :) as i said, im about to go and get tracking checked now so we'll see how that is
As in bent it back to standard shape spot on, or made it back into straight bar with bends at all? lol
Actually straightened it lol
Actually straightened it lol
Impressive!
its a tad harsh but if the repair works, then fair enough......
its a bit like backing into something to knock a front end dent out
its a tad harsh but if the repair works, then fair enough......
its a bit like backing into something to knock a front end dent out
That's no repair, he means actually straight, as in the wheel would have been sat against the arch at about 90 degrees of the wrong angle.
Yup, the bend that should be in the tiebar had gone lol
so she was a touch vigorous... as my grandad used to say, if you've never broken anything, you've never done anything
autograss_racer
22-03-11, 11:20 PM
Strange thing I've just noticed, the o/s tyre isn't even half as worn as the n/s? And the tyres were even when I put them on, why could this be?
Simple - ROUNDABOUT ABUSER!!
You've been hanging it in on the roundabouts haven't you!!! lollollol
NovaBoi92
23-03-11, 12:01 AM
lol no i drive like a granny alot of the time. its just on the inside edge, definatley due to the camber.
lol no i drive like a granny alot of the time. its just on the inside edge, definatley due to the camber.
or tracking, or worn bushes or a bent bottom arm....
C612DNM
23-03-11, 06:39 PM
get it laser tracked, i had mad camber problems with running cheap coilovers but i scrapped the car so never got it sorted. but i was told getting the alignment and tracking would of solved it :)
Lasers? LASERS? Bloody kids don't know what tracking is!
You need a set of Dunlop Tracking Gauges - proper stuff, as used by most motorsport teams - though a lot of people still use the old "adjustable stick" or string & measure tactic - which is extremely reliable and repeatable, and doesn't rely on the wheels not having any run-out on their cheap kerb mashed castings......
You can set a car up using string and a flat surface. The old methods are often much more reliable than any amount of (bent) wheel mountable postitronic dilithium powered lasers. While light may go in a straight line, it's only as good as the thing that its mounted on, and you can't turn the wheels when the laser oojit is fitted to it.
For road use, 1 deg neg all round with front set to 30minutes toe out, and rear parallel is about the best. If you want light fingered steering in town, then go parallel all round, or 10minutes toe in, but don't expect it to handle nicely.
For track use, that'll cost you to buy my experience.
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