dog box on a road going track car

[Gareth_C]

Evening all been contemplating biting the bullet and going for a more substancial gearbox. What are peoples thoughts on the dog box system or is it best to keep to synchro straight cut boxes for a road/track car.
Its going to be used for the drag and circuit.

Cheers Gareth

[MK1_Ben]

Depends on usage, as straight cuts are fine, but do get annoying on the road after a while.

Plus the price of them is pretty extensive for a "hobby"?

[Gareth_C]

weekends for some fun lol

[MK1_Ben]

If you can justify the cost, then yes :). They're an absolute hoot to drive with.

[Andy]

You are aware of the cost of a dog box i presume?

[Gareth_C]

but which would be a better choice between the two

[Gareth_C]

You are aware of the cost of a dog box i presume?

Yeah andy I know that the dog box doesnt have synchro's i read a previous post i sort of get the differences :thumb:

[bmw156]

i would never wanna drive a dog box.
i have a straight cut in the chevette and it does wine, but its not to bad.

[philip]

you also realise that you cant pussy foot changing gears with a dog box, you need to really bang it into gear otherwise good bye gearbox?

straight cut should be up to the job really id of thought and alot more friendly on the roads

[MK1_Ben]

I have a Quaife box in my ZR rally car, it's nice to drive "hard" with but for just driving somewhere it's a nuisance.

They whine like a pig, and if you lift off in mine at lower rpm (for example traffic) you get plenty of drivetrain shunt. Bunny hopping in traffic with the gearbox chirping away brings plenty of unwanted attention.

You'll want to be good at heel-toe etc aswell (depending on what clutch you use), as going up the gears is just a case of lifting off and banging it into gear without the clutch, but downshifts are nicer with some trickery footwork to help it go into gear (if you're at the wrong RPM a straight cut box will not let you put it into a lower gear, it will just clash the gears).

[Andy]

you also realise that you cant pussy foot changing gears with a dog box, you need to really bang it into gear otherwise good bye gearbox?

straight cut should be up to the job really id of thought and alot more friendly on the roads
Agreed,they really are for serious competition and minimal road use only really,i just cant think how you could justify spending that much if its only doing the odd RWYB or trackday,fair enough if its entering rallies

[Gareth_C]

So is it worth changing from a standard vaux box to a sccr or dog box

[Andy]

I would say SCCR and save a hell of a lot of money!

[bmw156]

depends on what its for.
a straight cut box is no stronger then a normal box. it just has less resistance on the gears, meaning more power gets to the wheels.

and a dog box would be a right PITA on the road lol. crunching gears all the time.

[philip]

its def worth going onto a straight cut syncro box as you will be able to use the power alot better and always be in the power band dependant on what ratios you have but a dog box is definately a no-go imho. whenever i hear my mates mk2 escort or any of the other rally at the strat line go into 1`st gear, it sounds like the box has fallen out the things! haha

[Gareth_C]

depends on what its for.
a straight cut box is no stronger then a normal box. it just has less resistance on the gears, meaning more power gets to the wheels.

and a dog box would be a right PITA on the road lol. crunching gears all the time.

I have these random ideas of what I can change and make better and with this improved engine i have built I was thinking is it worth upping the box from the F28 to something else.:confused:

[bmw156]

dont fix it until its broken. :)

[Andy]

Agreed,til you start munching boxes i wouldnt bother

[MARTIN KELSON]

I have a straight cut Quaife synchro box in my Nova.
It's just a weekend toy & no problem with it on the road.

You will need to use ear plugs when driving though! :)

Get your wallet out and splash some cash!!

[Gareth_C]

I have a straight cut Quaife synchro box in my Nova.
It's just a weekend toy & no problem with it on the road.

You will need to use ear plugs when driving though! :)

Get your wallet out and splash some cash!!

lol The noise doesnt bother me the engine on acceleration was about 130Db and now its gonna have a 3" exhaust to contend with, Just trying to see which is more cost effective really as I was considering getting the F28 freshened up mechanically which is approx £450-£600 so its whats more worth doing in the long run

[MARTIN KELSON]

I have no regrets forking out the money for the Quaife.

Don't know what it would be like up drag strip. You will be up the gears damn quick as the ratios are close.

Great fun for a little B road blast. You won't drop out of the power as it won't drop the revs anywhere near as much as a standard box.

[Novasport]

I love my SCCR box, well worth it even though its a road car. Mine has a standard 5th gear to make cruising easier and quieter but I miss the SCCR 5th as there is a massive rev drop and it crunches into the standard cog as the synchros can't cope. I need to swap my 5th to one from an F13CR.
I wouldn't go for a dog box unless its a rally car etc.

[Gareth_C]

I have no regrets forking out the money for the Quaife.

Don't know what it would be like up drag strip. You will be up the gears damn quick as the ratios are close.

Great fun for a little B road blast. You won't drop out of the power as it won't drop the revs anywhere near as much as a standard box.

When looking im sure you can ratio the sccr to give good acceleration but a decent top from what i saw from a post on here from year ago :) :thumb:

[MattBrown]

There was one forsale on here the other week.

£3k, but I couldn't be arsed servicing them every 12 months lol

[Gareth_C]

There was one forsale on here the other week.

£3k, but I couldn't be arsed servicing them every 12 months lol

But thats all part of the fun of modifying lol

[MattBrown]

But thats all part of the fun of modifying lol


Be better getting the quaffie straight cut sccr one.

Although, I'm sure they only take 180bhp?

[BRoadGhost]

No one mentioned the F16CR yet?

Was fortunate enough to get mine from a much loved MK1 GTE Astra. But a MK1 Cav SR130 will have one too. Brilliant match for a tuned XE imo all nice and short - who goes much past 135 on a track anyway? It's all about the compromise. Only hard part is finding one these days ~ even six years ago they were rare. Not sure if they're as strong as an F20 mind..? Not that I've had any woes touch wood lol

[novarally]

lol The noise doesnt bother me the engine on acceleration was about 130Db and now its gonna have a 3" exhaust to contend with, Just trying to see which is more cost effective really as I was considering getting the F28 freshened up mechanically which is approx £450-£600 so its whats more worth doing in the long run

If you use a dog 'box a lot you can reckon on rebuild costs of at least that every year. And they are absolutely painful to use on the road.

[c20tbo]

I ran a quaife sccr f20 in my old let nova, on road and track had no problems atall at 300bhp

If mainly for track then i would go dogbox as with the sccr it easy to beat the syncros on quick shifting as i found out but saying that only changed out 1 set of syncros on my box in 2 yrs and the current owner it has been fine mainly road use.

On my new project (not vauxhall) still track biased but road legal i will be running a ludde dogbox for this year £4.5k worth but in 2012 will be going ffd 6sp sequential at a hefty £12k

You vauxhall guys dont no how lucky you are price wise.

[SR-Rally]

I'd stick with standard box if it's mainly road car. I recently put straight cut box in my nova rally car. It's great when competing as noise isn't a problem but when I was running the engine in I couldn't stand it. Whining gave me headache etc etc. Plus its revving at 4,600rpm at 60mph :( not great if a road car. But awesome if a rally car :)

[Novasport]

Plus its revving at 4,600rpm at 60mph :( not great if a road car. But awesome if a rally car :)

Thats why I have a standard fifth cog ;)

[Dayle_]

From my experience of quaife dog boxe's they are ****E and you will be lucky to get 3 months without some kind of refresh especially using it every day. I know many people who have bought one at some point and they saying is true you get what you pay for.

The quaife would need some sort of attention every 3 rally's the AND i would say they are the only dog box where you need to use the clutch to down shift without it blowing its self to bits.

If your going to do it do it once and you get what you pay for. Hewland or Tractive are the way to go. The tracktive sequential has been in the mk2 for 3 years and has not once failed or needed rebuild yet.

[16v Nova Kev]

No one mentioned the F16CR yet?

Was fortunate enough to get mine from a much loved MK1 GTE Astra. But a MK1 Cav SR130 will have one too. Brilliant match for a tuned XE imo all nice and short - who goes much past 135 on a track anyway? It's all about the compromise. Only hard part is finding one these days ~ even six years ago they were rare. Not sure if they're as strong as an F20 mind..? Not that I've had any woes touch wood lol

i have one it came out a belmont sri. side by side it leaves an f20 xe'd nova well worth fitting imo.:thumb:

[mowgli]

just to play devils adcovaat.... why not look at getting an auto box & then modify the shifter to use like a sequential? it will withstand might abuse & last for ever.

[Gareth_C]

just to play devils adcovaat.... why not look at getting an auto box & then modify the shifter to use like a sequential? it will withstand might abuse & last for ever.

I looked into a auto box year ago and they are ridiculasly heavy also iirc they have an loom and control stuff that hooks to the orginal ecu or something like that:confused:

[Gareth_C]

From my experience of quaife dog boxe's they are ****E and you will be lucky to get 3 months without some kind of refresh especially using it every day. I know many people who have bought one at some point and they saying is true you get what you pay for.

The quaife would need some sort of attention every 3 rally's the AND i would say they are the only dog box where you need to use the clutch to down shift without it blowing its self to bits.

If your going to do it do it once and you get what you pay for. Hewland or Tractive are the way to go. The tracktive sequential has been in the mk2 for 3 years and has not once failed or needed rebuild yet.

THe reason I was looking at a dog dox is cause there was one on ebay. But that wasnt worth the effort have been offered a sccr F20 kit so maybe invest in that.

[Gareth_C]

i have one it came out a belmont sri. side by side it leaves an f20 xe'd nova well worth fitting imo.:thumb:

I used to run a f16 on the standard vavler but I have well and truly munched to F20's im guessing the F16 isnt any stronger :confused: