3 Points Query

[Dave.]

Not for me, for a very silly mate lol

Basically a load of my mates went to a "un-official organised cruise" tonight and as expected the old bill turned up (I didnt go in the Nova because im a good boy lol) anyway everyone got fined £30 for being parked on a public footpath (large grass/pavement area at the side of the road)

Now one of my mates in a orange Corsa got a £60 fine and 3 penalty points for texting whilst sat in his car, the car was parked up, in neutral, handbrake on but was running, is their any way he can get around this as the car wasnt actually moving, cant see it being any different from pulling someone whos jsut stopped at the side of the road to check their phone?/

Also, a mate in a silver Focus got a £30 fine for apparently "illegal" numberplates, all that was wrong was the backing had come away from the plastic and created a green/brown water mark, it didnt in any way effect the lettering, could still clearly see the letters (was just above a letter M, joined the top right of the M to the top of the plate, still clearly see it was a M though) had 100% legal text, size, colour, everything

Anyone shed any light on these for me? :thumb:

[NathanSRi]

As regards to the texting, he's still in control of the car whether it's moving or parked. I know someone who sat in their car on the road outside their house, fell asleep and got done for it. I'm not sure about the numberplate one though

[Dave.]

As regards to the texting, he's still in control of the car whether it's moving or parked. I know someone who sat in their car on the road outside their house, fell asleep and got done for it. I'm not sure about the numberplate one though

Thats what i thought, if it wer to jump into gear etc, its his own fault, only passed his test last week aswell lol

[windfreek]

As regards to the texting, he's still in control of the car whether it's moving or parked. I know someone who sat in their car on the road outside their house, fell asleep and got done for it. I'm not sure about the numberplate one though

Unfortunately I havr a mate whos a cop, and yeah thats right, but if yout mate didnt get to finish the text, he can appeal it and show his phone bill to prove there was no use of the mobile at the time of the supposed offence

[wwmnw]

****ing hell, the cop has been proper pedantic there, if he had been driving then yeah its a different story. I'll have to remember to turn my engine off next time I pull over to send a text/answer the phone.

[Jack]

AFAIK the fuzz say if the engine is running they'll nick you, even if you're parked up. I'll go read the law on it if you like but I seem to recall its pretty naff.

As for the plate, its failure to maintain, so another legit nick there too I'm afraid (did you know you can get nicked for dirty headlights?!)

[mowgli]

i was always led to believe that if the key is in the ignition, then you are in control of the car... about as daft as if your motorbike has run out of fuel & you are pushing it, you must still have your crash helmet on......

its worth arguing the toss, and finding out if the ground was privately owned or council, and if the owner had made a complaint...

but avoiding kroozez is the best advice i can give

[Iain]

but avoiding kroozez is the best advice i can give

Or park in the carpark :cool:

[L14MNP]

Barry boys - you paint a picture of choir boys. lol

[Yorkie]

if water marks touches any lettering then i believe that is illigal, pointless if the letters arnt affected but it might make it hard for their camera gizmo's to read making it illigal, same if your number plate is too dirt and you cant see the lettering. but the police have had cuts and no doubt are trying to get more money and not letting those little things go like they may of used to, but im not sure im not a cop.

[Gareth_C]

Sounds like the copper was having a bad day and just wanted to be a ****.
I was always told from a family member in vosa that if the keys are even in the ignition then thats classed as intent, So unfortunatly its true. But how does that fair considering he wasnt technically on the pulic highway. :confused:

[Paul]

I bet your mate gave him attitude?

If your friendly to them, theyre ok!

[wwmnw]

I bet your mate gave him attitude?

If your friendly to them, theyre ok!

Sometimes, I once got a section 59 or something for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, didn't even talk to the cops just listened to what they said and drove off after they asked us to. And the worst part was none of us had actually done anything wrong, it was the people that had left before most of us got there that had been making noise.

Not as bad as points but its just my proof that not all cops are nice if you're nice to them, they're human too.

[mowgli]

If your friendly to them, theyre ok!

sound advice.

[windfreek]

(did you know you can get nicked for dirty headlights?!)

And for those of us that use HID's, its illegal and an MOT fail if you dont have some form of washer infront of the lens due to glare or somthing

[Lee]

He got done purely because he was at a cruise. If he was on his own in a layby they probably wouldnt have done him.

[Andy]

He got done purely because he was at a cruise. If he was on his own in a layby they probably wouldnt have done him.
More than likely wouldnt have even looked at him.
Cruises have become a nuisance in lots of areas and the police will do anything they can to annoy you to the point where you just stay away from them.

[bmw156]

He got done purely because he was at a cruise. If he was on his own in a layby they probably wouldnt have done him.

i was gonna say something along these lines. i bet the rozzers were picking for anything and everything just to stop people going to a "krooze" in the future.

[Hoochie]

He got done purely because he was at a cruise. If he was on his own in a layby they probably wouldnt have done him.
This is what i was thinking^^^^^

But what actually constitutes "using a mobile phone". Are police prosecuting drivers who are simply seen with a phone or a PDA in their hand? We doubt there are any motorists who are not aware that it is illegal in the UK to use a handheld mobile phone whilst driving your car.
The current penalty for this offence is 3 points on your driving licence and a fine of up to £1,000.

That seems quite clear, but what constitutes "use" of a mobile phone, and exactly when are you deemed to be "driving" your car.
Driving a car

The term "driving" has a very wide definition in motoring law matters. You can generally still be considered to be driving, even if you are stationary, sitting in your vehicle off the road, but with your engine running. Turning off your engine may be enough to prevent a successful prosecution.


It is a matter for the prosecution to prove that you were "using" the phone. This will usually be by way of evidence from an officer who saw you on the phone in your car. But if you can prove that you did not make or receive any calls or texts at the time of the alleged offence, then you may be able to establish that you were merely holding/moving the phone and the offence would not be committed.

[Lee]

Its common knowledge that you can be done for DD just by approaching your car with the keys, let alone actually getting in it, let alone actually driving it!

Stands to reason the mobile phone laws would be treated the same, and then let the officer making the arrest have some form of discretion. Trouble is, most plod nowadays dont operate with discretion, they just operate to the letter of the law.

[mowgli]

arrest/offence targets have a lot to answer for

[TeddyThom]

Now one of my mates in a orange Corsa got a £60 fine and 3 penalty points for texting whilst sat in his car, the car was parked up, in neutral, handbrake on but was running, is their any way he can get around this as the car wasnt actually moving, cant see it being any different from pulling someone whos jsut stopped at the side of the road to check their phone?

I sat on the side of the road, on double yellows I might add and two wheels on the pavement, on the phone with the engine running, I had a BMW X5 police car pass me and they didn't even bother to check me out apart from the usual eyeballs they give me, and it was like half 12 at night, usually the time to get pulled over in a Nova as shoddy as mine. Guess your mate got bad luck, wrong place wrong time etc.

[brainsnova]

Best to sit in the passenger seat.

[mowgli]

basically, the police can try to get people even for that... they should teach law at school. cos the coppers would soon have to stop their bully boy antics.

1, be polite
2, always make sure you get the officers details
3, ask them nicely what it is they reckon you might be doing wrong
4, remember that you can get done for loitering anywhere, but proving trespass without the owner being there is a touch dodgy

[phazer]

'Scuse the right on bollox website but see down towards the bottom. http://www.safermotoring.co.uk/MobilePhonesDriving.html

This site suggests that the law doesn't apply when the engine isn't running (which is what I always thought). However, as usual the official Government advice is at best confusing:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/roadsafetyadvice/DG_188761

It says you can use your phone when safely parked. You could read in to it and suggest that safely means ignition off but it's open to interpretation. You'd have thought that given its about law it would be a bit more explicit!

[Andy]

Not really as cos its so vague they can get away with it as 90% of the public wouldnt contest it,nor would they even look into it,so £££ ahoy for the thieves,i mean the government

[phazer]

It should be explicit - if you are the law maker and offer the public misleading advice as to how to be compliant I'd say it's good grounds to contest it.

You never know, a print out from the Gov advice page might be enough down the local nick to get the ticket dropped.

[Jack]

Just looked up the regulation, it does actually specify the words "drive a motor vehicle one a road", not "be in control of". So it all depends on interpretation of "drive" (of which the dictionary definition is basically to make move; so by definition, being parked isn't driving) and "road" (of which a car park or layby is not, although the rules of the road do still apply for some car parks and what not).


And for those of us that use HID's, its illegal and an MOT fail if you dont have some form of washer infront of the lens due to glare or somthing
Its NOT an MOT fail, but it is technically a violation of EU regulations, depending on your interpretation of when they should be implemented.

[angusl2006]

personally if i was the boy texint id be angry but its the same as being at a junction and texting.....its crap mate but i wud have said thats fair.

get the boy in the silver focus to go to an MOT station and see what an MOT inspector wud say about the number plate, if he would fail it, its illegal.

at the end of the day i hate the scum and alot of the laws but....at times u just gotta take a hit on the chin and learn from ( in this case) ur mates!

[pyromaniac_yeti]

Being a pizza driver im always at the side of the road on the phone, engine running, not running or whatever i've never got hassle for it...probbably just a case of the coppers getting the **** over another group that was in the area before yourselves or having a bad day or something...

generally best idea is to keep your gob shut, agree with everything they've got to say and you wont get any hassle. I ignored this a few days ago after running out of diesel (in my defence the backlight on the dash had packed up!) went to push my car down the road to the petrol station (downhill, and maybe 100m down the road?) and got blue lighted to be told that

1. its illegal to push my car down the road.
2. i was likely to get cuffed and taken down the station if i carried on arguing (the point was that i wasnt calling out breakdown when i could easily and safely push the car into the petrol station, i did not shout, scream, wave my arms about, make any threats, swear etc)
3. that it was perfectly fine to push the car down the road to a side road whereby i could leave it out of the way and call breakdown.
4. that my brakes and steering wouldnt work propperly
5. that in replying that the PAS pump not pressurising anything and the brake servo not reciving any vaccum would make the steering and braking heavier, not stop them from working at all, i was being argumentative and (insert number 2. here...)


so on and so forth.

whereas another copper pulled me up to check insurance and all that, was perfectly polite and freindly thanked me for being co-operative with everything and sent me on my way - same guy pulled me up with a different partner a month or so down the line, said to his partner that i was okay, had insurance etc so not to worry about checking as it'd waste my time and his! told me to sort my brakelight when i had a chance and buggered off!

luck of the draw i guess...you're always gonna have a few out there that are on some sort of power trip...the texting thing its his word against your mates, though the numberplate could (i belive) be proved not to be his fault and might be worth arguing the point over

[Danny s-p]

as were on the hole points thing my mate was on the motor way doing 100 mph he thinks the cop van snaped him but dosen't no how many points will he get and fine on his door step if they got him

[Andy]

At 100mph he would need his/or the duty solicitor lol
He'll be going to court..

[Hobbit]

personally if i was the boy texint id be angry but its the same as being at a junction and texting.....its crap mate but i wud have said thats fair.

get the boy in the silver focus to go to an MOT station and see what an MOT inspector wud say about the number plate, if he would fail it, its illegal.

So you know how to spell it ;)



at the end of the day i hate the scum and alot of the laws but....at times u just gotta take a hit on the chin and learn from ( in this case) ur mates!

and some more... Please bin the text typing.

[TeddyThom]

as were on the hole points thing my mate was on the motor way doing 100 mph he thinks the cop van snaped him but dosen't no how many points will he get and fine on his door step if they got him

@100mph he might as well cut up his licence and invest in a pushbike lol

[mowgli]

1. his speedo will be over reading. so less than a ton in reality
2. cops are sometimes there doing anpr stuff not speed
3. most likely if caught, 3 points & 60 quid.

[Danny s-p]

1. his speedo will be over reading. so less than a ton in reality
2. cops are sometimes there doing anpr stuff not speed
3. most likely if caught, 3 points & 60 quid.

i thort 3 points and a fine think he hoping it anpr

[brainsnova]

If he got caught by the old style cop with a speed gun in his hand then he would have to eat both parts of his licence lol

[Tony M]

He got done purely because he was at a cruise. If he was on his own in a layby they probably wouldnt have done him.

I'd go with this also,

I remember when I got a text come through on my phone in the early hours, I pulled over and a copper pulled up and asked what I was doing and I said - "to read the text I just recieved rather than to keep on driving". His reply - "good lad see you later" lol

[mk1nova_rich]

I have no sympathy for anyone who is attending a cruise, whether the copper was being an **** or not

[Andy]

I have no sympathy for anyone who is attending a cruise, whether the copper was being an **** or not
Thats a little harsh,we all have to go at least twice at somepoint to realise how bollox they are lol

[mk1nova_rich]

I went to one cos I saw a mate I'd not seen for a while on his way to one. It was full of ****ers so I went home lol

[Andy]

I went to one cos I saw a mate I'd not seen for a while on his way to one. It was full of ****ers so I went home lol
Ok some it seems only need the one visit lol lol

[Dave.]

Thats a little harsh,we all have to go at least twice at somepoint to realise how bollox they are lol

I went once, was crap, went the week after and was full of chavs and saxos racing eachother, dont go when everyone else goes now, totall waste of time, its **** lol

[MattBrown]

Was it the street racing down hardwick?

If so it's all private land.