nova saloon-project rwd

[ggilson92]

right guys, basically, bought a 5 door saloon just before christmas as a cheap daily runner. after umming and arrrrrghing i have decided to do something different with it. i have always loved the thought of it being rwd.
just wondering if anyone on here has any advise or experiance with a conversion like this, whats involved ie. what running gear would be best to use, what floor pan/tranny tunnel, front subframe and that sort of thing.
i owned a redtop nova last year and it was fast to say the least, i just felt that if the power was at the rear not the front it would be a tad more interesting :p
i realise to most on here will think its a silly idea, but i have the money and the time to see this project through and have my heart set on it.
any advise or input appreciated (even if its people thinking im crazy:thumb: )
cheers guys

[wwmnw]

RWD Nova's have been done before, if you use the search function you will probably find the info you need.

Also, try using some paragraphs, I couldn't really be arsed to read all that and I may have given a better reply if I could be bothered to read the impenetrable wall of text :)

[ggilson92]

yeah, i have heard of a few being done, all i remember reading was people mounting the engines in the back?? i shall have a little play with the search button n try n get some pics up for you :)

[wwmnw]

http://www.vauxhall-sport-forum.com/phpBB2/my-saab-powered-rwd-nova-its-alive-t4877.html

[ggilson92]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/183467_10150093924296746_712601745_6731554_4421648 _n.jpg

[ggilson92]

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/188404_10150093924026746_712601745_6731551_2519990 _n.jpg

[MK1_Ben]

yeah, i have heard of a few being done, all i remember reading was people mounting the engines in the back?? i shall have a little play with the search button n try n get some pics up for you :)

On a Saloon layout you wouldn't want rear-engine rear wheel drive, unless you like going round corners backwards ;)

Front-Engine rear wheel drive is the way to go for handling and a bit of tail-out fun.

Looks quite tidy from the photos too, good luck!

[Jack]

RWD is the new GSi/Speedline/XE lol

[tommy8252]

I would love to do this but I lack the patience, engineering skill and knowledge to see it through. And yeah on a saloon I think the best way to go would be front engine, rear wheel drive.

[burgo]

if your having to ask YOU cant do it, get your money out and pay someone who knows what they are doing to do it

[mowgli]

rally engineering companies have been doing them with escort bits since the late eighties.... someone is apparently using mx5 bits on one,

basically you will have to swap every single mechanical component, and it will change the whole reason why driving a nova is like driving a nova. for less money, you could do a damned good seven type kit car.

[tashley6]

Only 1 way to learn mate do it I've just turnoff my 2l 8valve never turboed anything befor I do have a good understanding of engines thow

[mk1nova_rich]

possibly not Burgo... He may just be asking if there any suitable parts which could be cut from another car to save fabbing from scratch :)

[tashley6]

Allso people use manta boxes in the chevettes when that red top them but ther bout 300 quid I belive

[The Simps]

I'll do it for him when I've finished mine! lol

[The Simps]

and the time to see this project through and have my heart set on it.

Thats a good start because it is no small job! I've been building mine in my spare time for about 3-4yrs now! lol

[comptoncj]

When i had an old more door loon on the farm my uncle had the idea of taking the engine and running gear out of his mv6 ex police omega, fabricating some mounts and some how getting that lot into it. Just an idea George lol

[mowgli]

if anything, the rear end is the easiest part of the conversion, if you can find a narrow enough rear axle with LSD, or can cut down a decent irs. i think the front end is really tricky though.. i like the idea of something like a chevette front axle assy, simply cos it can bolt on as a single unit, but the sump and exhaust would be some fun to fit.

[wwmnw]

Thats a good start because it is no small job! I've been building mine in my spare time for about 3-4yrs now! lol

Is it that complicated or are you just doing bits now and again?

[mowgli]

lets get the lid right of that can of worms

[total_vauxhall]

xe motor vaux to ford bell housing mk2 escort running gear or jag diff and short shafts jobs a good en , also lots of fabrication / sheet metal knowlage. also you need to alter the possision of the steering rack for the gear box tunnel .

[The Simps]

Is it that complicated or are you just doing bits now and again?

There is a lot to think about and a lot of different ways to go about it. I havnt been exactly forthcoming in my progress tho. Someone like Ste tho has got stuck into his 4x4 nova, I just dont get that time.

Its complicated if you think an XE or LET conversion is challenging!

[The Simps]

lets get the lid right of that can of worms

fpmsl - dont worry, MK999 will be on soon enough to give me some abuse!

[The Simps]

Depends what engine you want to run too.....

[mk1nova_rich]

is there a reason why the original Nova front suspension arrangement can not be kept? Surely the TCA mounts are far enough apart... Or is it to do with converting the hubs to a non-drive type?

[wwmnw]

There is a lot to think about and a lot of different ways to go about it. I havnt been exactly forthcoming in my progress tho. Someone like Ste tho has got stuck into his 4x4 nova, I just dont get that time.

Its complicated if you think an XE or LET conversion is challenging!

I've never really looked into RWDing a Nova, as fun as it would be its not something I'd bother with when you can get a Shovvit or such alike and not mess about with making it RWD lol although I do appreciate RWD/4WD Nova's as they're not that common and obviously has taken time and skill to do.

[The Simps]

I've never really looked into RWDing a Nova, as fun as it would be its not something I'd bother with when you can get a Shovvit or such alike and not mess about with making it RWD lol although I do appreciate RWD/4WD Nova's as they're not that common and obviously has taken time and skill to do.


Its purely because I enjoy tinkering and building. It should be a fun weapon too but I've just bought a 200sx thats pretty dam good out the box but I'll still build the nova. Just ordered loads of parts as it happens.

[The Simps]

is there a reason why the original Nova front suspension arrangement can not be kept? Surely the TCA mounts are far enough apart... Or is it to do with converting the hubs to a non-drive type?

You cant leave the rack where it is so you need the steering knuckle to be on the front not back end of the hub. Non-drive wise u could just bolt in a cv.

[mowgli]

i like the thinking behind your conversion, using the 924/44 (audi) gearbox does really help with the packaging, so the lack of a front gearbox will massively help with the problem of getting the exhaust to run where the torque tube goes,

back to the point about the original nova front suspension, i'm not sure if it will work, simply because of the steering rack position, which is pretty much where the bellhousing will go, which is why a front mounted rack is better, as in how the ford escort mk1/2 is..

[The Simps]

As basics, you need to get the engine as far back as you can. Choose whatever gearbox you want/prefer that can be mated to your engine. Choose a decent diff and prop can be cut & shut easily.

Then its just a case of suspension/chassis choice. Use a complete floor from a donor and its setup or design your own.

[mk1nova_rich]

I guessed the rack would have to be moved/modified but couldn't think where it would end up. Surely just the steering knuckles could be modified/custom made and keep the rest of the setup as it is?

[The Simps]

I guessed the rack would have to be moved/modified but couldn't think where it would end up. Surely just the steering knuckles could be modified/custom made and keep the rest of the setup as it is?

Thats the other problem too is changing steering knuckles starts effecting ackerman angles. So ideally you want to be using a front hub/steering setup of a similar wheelbased car.

[mowgli]

As basics, you need to get the engine as far back as you can. Choose whatever gearbox you want/prefer that can be mated to your engine. Choose a decent diff and prop can be cut & shut easily.

Then its just a case of suspension/chassis choice. Use a complete floor from a donor and its setup or design your own.

as i've previously stated on here, a mk2 escort is remarkable similar in wheelbase/track to a nova, but just try to get the running gear, unless you are lucky & get a dutton or jago kit car project on the bay cheap

[mowgli]

i reckon e30 bmw would be a good donor. but thinking about it, i have a morris marina rear axle in my shed with a 3.7 diff that would be a good live axle to use...

[The Simps]

Thats the problem mowgli, they go quick. And tuning parts are dam expensive! Thats why I like the mx5 idea too. Plentiful and cheap and double wishbone setup. Easy enough to transport both front and rear subframes over and they're even 4x100!!

[The Simps]

e30 is 4x100 too ;) A lot of chevette boys etc use the rear setups as a stronger upgrade.

As I said a few pages back, there are so many ways to do it, you have to think about the end product you want for the car.

[mowgli]

but i like how a normal nova goes. and you need to really be commited to want to convert a road going (as opposed to a rally car that needs few creature comforts) one to rwd,

[The Simps]

but i like how a normal nova goes. and you need to really be commited to want to convert a road going (as opposed to a rally car that needs few creature comforts) one to rwd,


Completely agree. All down to what you want from it. Johnny A is looking to use his an every day affair whereas mine probably wont even be road legal but I dont need it to be.

[mowgli]

mr simps, johnny a is from oxford.... there is no way that his car would be a daily driver round there... it is way too low for 99.9% of the speed humps in that car hating ****hole...(i used to live & work there)

[total_vauxhall]

when we looked into putting a rover v8 in one we were planning on using mk2 astra steering setup but it does mean messing aroung cutting and welding a couple of bits

[mowgli]

ffs, a rover v8 is a lot of work for a 200 hp(max without selling a kidney) engine.... a let would be cheaper/easier

[total_vauxhall]

got a good mate who was running a 700 bhp one in another vaux he was going to help with the build . the motors and box can be found for 150 quid and a decent set of cams and carb and you can start to see good bhp they are realy cheap to mod and bullet proof so will take lots or gas thats the resson we were planning on using one but due to 2 other novas were never got round to it yet

[The Simps]

A mk2 astra setup is no different to a nova - rack is still in the wrong place.

[total_vauxhall]

?? the rack is alot higher on a mk2 we had messured it for a rover box and the astra rack would have fit nice

[The Simps]

It cant be that much higher surely? To have it fit behind the engine anyway will sit it way to far forward of the wheels. You can just about get an xe 3/4s behind the axle line without comprimising too much cabin space.

[The Simps]

I've got a pic somewhere of an xe sat just infront of the rack and 3/4s is infront of the axle line. Not good. I'll post it up tomorrow.

[mowgli]

i got a rover v8 for an attempt at fitting it in my old moggie minor pickup, and decided it was a horrible thing...if your mate is getting 700hp from one then he has spent at least 10k on it... in std form, they are crap, they are asthmatic, and basically a late 50's design...there are so many better engines, and the rover gearbox will not stand that sort of power....

[ste porter]

my advise on this subject is unless you are a realy good fabricator have a nice well equiped workshop, have a full understanding of steering geometry and a decent sized budget that can be exstended (because it will) then dont bother

another tip is if you decide your going to loose most the floor ect any way (once you start choping and realise theres not alot to tie into you will any way) then buy a shell thats half rotten and work on that not a minter or you will regret it and especialy if it ends up getting scraped or sold on unfinished

imho the easiest way around it would be to gut a nova shell and modify a kit car chassis to fab the shell to that is what i see as beeing the easiest way about it to be honest

another thing to think about is do something similar to what i have use a cali turbo rear end and something like omega front steering and sus asembaly and fab the rest to suit

either way its like any other major project that changes drive type it will be a ball ach and problematic but make sure for every component you acomodate you consider the effects it will have on fitting another

[LEWI007]

What would peoples opinions be on using a Cavalier 4x4 running gear ? and make it 4x4..

[mowgli]

lewi, have you got the irony board out or are you just being thick???

ste, the trouble with the kit car chassis idea is that the monocoque (sp) shell will massively raise the Centre Of Gravity, and make a mess of the suspension geometry..

[ste porter]

lewi, have you got the irony board out or are you just being thick???

ste, the trouble with the kit car chassis idea is that the monocoque (sp) shell will massively raise the Centre Of Gravity, and make a mess of the suspension geometry..

yeah i know mate thats why i said it would have to be modified i.e chassis cut down to basics and majorly altered but even though its the easiest way around the lay out and component positioning problem it will come with its own set of issues doing it like that

On the other hand if you remove the nova part from my 4x4 then all you would be left with is what resembles a kit car rolling chassis and for strength it seemed to be my best option

[bmw156]

why not let the real designers do the work and buy a chevette. still fairly cheap. RWD to start with and the upgrades all almost bolt on...

plus i have all the bits needed.

manta box
mounts
sump
manta axle. and prop if you buy the lot lol.

[C612DNM]

Nah. Get a Belmont and put a proper V8 in it.

Still, a sloon with an Omega V6 would be straightforward enough.

Astra Rack - get outta here! It's in the way - big time. You want the engine back behind the front axle line - something I have learned from the Belmont, and many other "proper" RWD conversions/cars. The Astra suspension geometry is crap, utter pants, GM called it "safety understeer", I call it crap design, and down right awful. It was a means to an end.

Use a V6 in the Nova Loon, that gives you a shorter motor for the starting point, you can get it all behind the axle line which makes the front end easier to do, using good old <cough> Ford kit which is about and still cheap. Escort/Capri struts, Escort rack with a quickrack kit.

It isn't for the feint hearted, it's a lot of work.

Mr bmw156 - do you know of a good source of Chevettes - ones that haven't all dissolved yet?

If you want plentyful RWD stuff, you have to look at BMW these days. And that has it's price to pay with lots of cunning electrics!

[The Simps]

I dont think I'd bother with the vaux v6 tbh.

Some reference pics for you...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/TheSimps/Nova/Nova%20Coupe%20Project/24-01-102-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/TheSimps/Nova/Nova%20Coupe%20Project/24-01-104.jpg


And without cutting bulkhead as you can see its way too far forward...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/TheSimps/Nova/Nova%20Coupe%20Project/13-09-099.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/TheSimps/Nova/Nova%20Coupe%20Project/13-09-096.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/TheSimps/Nova/Nova%20Coupe%20Project/13-09-095.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/TheSimps/Nova/Nova%20Coupe%20Project/25-10-099.jpg

[mowgli]

i really should scan in my old CCC mag article about rwd xe corsa b rally cars... on had the engine so far back, i think they had a plate in the dash to remove to get at the 4th plug!!!!!

i still think there is enough room for a v6 in there, and taking a leaf from the chevette, (which in std form was not very good... i drove one at a job i had in the 80's)... the front axle assy, with double wishbones & a front rack should fit but the sump will be a work of art.

[The Simps]

The engine could go further back yeah, I know Austin's is further back. I was limited because of the torque tube length which cant be shortened as simple as a prop!

[mowgli]

The engine could go further back yeah, I know Austin's is further back. I was limited because of the torque tube length which cant be shortened as simple as a prop!

a decent commercial vehicle prop shaft company would be able to shorten one... if people can narrow axles without too much aggro, an inner & outer would be fairly straightforward, its just down to the measuring..

[The Simps]

The tube itself isnt a problem its the long shaft with several bearings inside. No idea how it all comes out! Will be a hell of a long bearing press! lol

[mowgli]

i assume you were all over the porsche forums? there are probably no more than 3 bearings, each end will be some form of circlip, and the centre will be possibly a metalastic bearing just to give a small amount of damping....

note to self, find out how a porsche torque tube pulls apart........

it can't be that complicated, or the cost would have been too much.

edit.. its my sort of job... bits of plastic drainpipe, metal conduit & large hammers.......

[The Simps]

If I look down the end of the tub the 1st bearing is a good 12" down there. I have got a 924 manual up the workshop somewhere - I'll look it up!

[mowgli]

tbh, it sounds a lot easier than fitting bearings in a flail mower ground roller that we use for clearing rough grassland on the front of our 200 hp tractor..... the torque tube is unlikely to bend & need a couple of hours with the gas before the bearings can be removed...

porsche appear to reckon it is unfixable, but the yank forums are full of how to strip & re bearing them...

[The Simps]

porsche appear to reckon it is unfixable, but the yank forums are full of how to strip & re bearing them...


Have you found a link?

[The Simps]

Also, another reason mine cant go any further back is the R1 carb clearance!

[mowgli]

Have you found a link?

i just googled 'porsche torque tube' & tons of stuff appeared

[mowgli]

Also, another reason mine cant go any further back is the R1 carb clearance!

with the hole you have chopped in it, a little more boxing in won't hurt, surely.....

[The Simps]

The angle they come out (see previous pics) there's not a great deal more room.

[mowgli]

this is the trouble with turning round an engine.. did you set it up slanted to the left, to mimic the fwd layout, or upright?? this might sound silly, but the carbs need angling up to make the floats etc work right, but why not angle them forward too?? for a spot of clearance....

i reckon you could get the engine way further back, and then move the seating position back too, think mid 90's btcc.. you said you didn't think it would be roadgoing....

[The Simps]

The manifold has been designed for a vertical engine and the floats as they should be. I could go a touch further back but it depends how low I can get the engine. Also what impact will it have on airflow?

I'm already putting the seats right back so the backs are basically inline with the b pillar and run a floor mounted pedal box.

[mowgli]

looking at the floorpan pic, it does look like it could go a touch lower..... could you chop the sump down or fit a carlton? one? what front suspension are you planning on using? the porsche stuff?

[The Simps]

Sump will either be big wing sump like carlton etc or a westfield type which is just a flat shallow rectangle. I'd prefer the latter as its not far off dry sump territory in respect to depth so I could run lower but depends on rack position. I'll building the car back forwards so will worry about that then.

Front suspension will be complete spaceframe setup with custom double wishbone and using manta hubs.