Nova GSi dying - help!

[raygsi]

Hi - I'm new here, so hello everyone. :D

Now the reason for me joining this technical forum ... my car is poorly :(

It's showing the following symptoms;-

a) rough idle and/or
b) starts but doesn't idle and/or
c) cuts out

All of the above happen randomly :roll: during and after warm-up (cold start is OK). a & b have been happening for the last few weeks. c first happened today and has now happened 3 times - on the motorway, cruising at 40mph and in a traffic queue (in that order, 2 seperate journeys, 4 hours apart)

Background details;-
Bog Standard 1.6 GSi bought 1996 with 3.5kmiles on the clock and 3 annual services in the service book
Date of manufacture Jan '92 (pre-cat model)
Mileage approx 90k miles at the moment, almost all town traffic with the occasional 180mile round trip motorway journey
Always run it on 95 RON (Normal Unleaded)
Replacement, quiet, 3-box stainless exhaust from the downpipe back
Always Dealer Serviced (last was a month ago) and fitted with a new battery 2 weeks ago
Has never had a single engine fault
(There's more but I don't think it's relevant???)

Vauxhall main dealers are stumped because they cannot reproduce the faults. They've honestly tried very hard over the last 3 days, I know because I have been there with the technicians and the car behaves perfectly in the Vauxhall workshop & also when they test drove it with me as a passenger. As far as I know they've checked the ECU codes and nothing shows (a & b only ... they haven't had a chance to check c)

If anyone knows what this problem is and has fixed it on their GSi, please reply with the remedy.

Cheers, Ray

[Dicko]

coasting air valve fualty or 1 of the thin tubes to it has come off or is leaking. other posibility is that you have a leak in your inlet tube.

coasting air valve - located just behind the injector at the very right of your engine. got a thin tube going into top and 1 or 2 other tubes coming off it. check all the tubes for splits/cracks etc, maybe try and get another coastin valve.
inlet tube - the black rubber hose that joins your airbox to you engine. if there is a split in this or it is leaking air then the engine it getting more air than it thinks and will do anything BUT run properly

[raygsi]

Thanks, Dicko

Vauxhall foreman mentioned something called an "idle air control valve" - pointed to the left of the engine, behind the injectors (cost about174quid!!!) but is reluctant because he doesn't know if it's a cure. Is that the same as the "coasting air valve"? :?

Cheers, Ray

[Aragorn]

GTE/GSi dont have IAC Valve

it has a secondary air valve used for cold starts which is attached to the rear of the rocker cover and the coasting air valve which is used to lean out the fuelling when off throttle (coasting)

idle is controlled manually by a screw

secondary air wouldnt be causing this problem

coasting air valve may but as dicko says check all the hoses for splits

the coasting valve can be tested by the garage using a vac pump and if its wonky it can be adjusted

it could also possibly be a faulty sensor (coolant or oil temp) or possibly even a dodgy ignition module

since its sporadic i'd say rule out hosing since it would cause the prob all the time in most cases

so.. C.A.V, ignition fault, sensor fault in that order

the ECU would prolly log the sensor fault but i can see it noticing the others so u may way to get them looked at

[raygsi]

Many thanks guys ... will print all this off and swarm over Vauxhall tomorrow, assuming I can get there before they close :wink:

Cheers, Ray

[Dicko]

do you know if its bosch injection? as it has no cat it shud be. only the later have an idle control.
arpgorn is talkin out his ring as usual, if its a split pipe its very possible as they leak randomly as iv found many times ;)

lol

seen as its all based on idle, rough runing id say its not the dizy modual
its not gonna be oil/coolant temp as iv run with both of these disconected and it runs ok just uses more fuel

[Jules]

A problem for the cutting out could be the fuel pump relay, more common that you'd think on Nova and not too expensive to replace (Always good to carry a spare one with you just incase).

[thesparky]

try checking the connections top the oil temp sensor i had similar probs it turned out to be the oil temp sensor connections corroded up

[raygsi]

Okeydokey - that's quite a list of things to check!

I've ordered a fuel pump relay, so that should be sorted on Monday.

Now, back to the IAC/CAV thing ...

1) Vauxhall mechanics pointed to the item here ... http://www.angelfire.com/super/gti-r/Nova/IAC.jpg
2) Checked again this morning and they've no idea what a CAV is ... "never heard of it" ... searched the Vauxhall parts display and nothing came up. :?

Can someone please copy the picture at http://www.angelfire.com/super/gti-r/Nova/IAC.jpg and send it back to me (off-forum) with the CAV highlighted?

Thanks again for all the help, guys :)

Ray
(ray.w@virgin.net)

[dathers]

That picture is has the cold start valve highlighted,it opens when cold and shuts when warm,if it doesnt close properly it will start ok from cold but if it doesnt close as the engine warms up it will run crappy.
To check if this is your problem,take off the two rubber pipes connected to it when the engine is warm,seal off both pipes,simulating the valve when closed,now go for a drive and see if its ok.
NOTE,do this with the engine up to temp first else the car may be difficult to start and may not idle until it is warm.
If it is this valve they are a sealed unit and a new one will cost ?35ish+VAT from vauxhall,they are easy to fit and dont need setting up,just held on with two 10mm bolts and jubilee clips on the rubber pipes.
It took me 15 mins to fit a new one to my gte.

I also had a split in the rubber hose from the airflow meter to the throttle body,take this pipe off and check it carefully as the cracks can be hard to see,mine had a split underneath,a new one of these from vauxhall is also around ?35+VAT,so i just wrapped some "self amalgamating rubber tape to seal it,which worked a treat.

At the same time as the above i gave it a full engine service,air and oil filters,oil change,spark plugs,dizzy cap,rotor arm,spark plug leads and fuel filter.

After this it ran like a dream!
Allthough it was the top two things that solved my problems which were near identicle to yours exept mine also shunted on coast down in gear.
Dave

[thesparky]

you can check the cold start valve by connecting 12v to it and watch it close

[raygsi]

Thanks Sparky, thanks Dathers, mine also shunts on coast down in gear.

Where did you get your part from (and when)? At 35 quid that's 139 quid cheaper than the price my local Vauxhall place wants :o

The fuel pump relay can't be fitted soon enough. Drove a whole 5 feet today and it died twice ... hilarious! :lol:

Whan all this is sorted I will put on my Mr Angry face ask why none of these items were tested by the Vauxhall guys when I first started getting problems. (They did sell me a new battery ... which is nice!)

Ray

[dathers]

The cold start valve and rubber pipe were both from my local vaux dealer.
Was ?139 a fitted price,?35 was just for the part to fit yourself.
Id remove and carefully check the rubber pipe from airflow meter to throttle body as every gte/gsi i have seen has got cracks in this pipe that have been taped up as a repair,take it off,its only 2 jubilee clips and a pipe has to be pulled off,and carefully check in the corrugations of the pipe,gently pull and bend it to see any cracks,use rubber tape or silicone sealant to seal em up,even the slightest of air leaks can cause really rough running.

Also the screw on the throttlebody to adjust idle speed has a little o ring on it,if this doesnt seal properly you can get eratic idle,totally un screw it and check it isnt perished,clean the hole it came from and put a tad of grease on before putting it back in.
Dave

[raygsi]

Fitted the petrol pump relay - 2 minute job - car now drives! Thanks :)

Still waiting for Vauhxall to ring me to say they've got a Cold Start Valve. The price they quoted was 174 quid - just for the part alone! :o Which is why I'm keen to know where I can get one 139 quid chaper ...

And thanks for the o-ring tip. Added to the list of things to check :lol:

Cheers, Ray

[raygsi]

Two weeks since I fitted the petrol pump relay and the car is still working with no fails ... :)

It still "shunts on coast down in gear " after warm-up - in fact, cruising at e.g., 30mph there's definitely a very gentle "shunt"- like coast down and like it's missing - but it's not that because 120mph is easy as is any kind of acceleration ... no drama! Car works like a dream, it's just uncomfortable when taking it easy. I'll go back to Vauxhall and see if they have any ideas IRO the cold start valve. :roll:

Dathers - I'd still like to know where you can get one of these (new) for 35 quid compared to the 174 notes Vauxhall want!!! :twisted:

Many thanks again to all who helped. :D

Ray

[Aragorn]

get the coasting air valve checked

haynes says they can test it with a vacuum pump and adjust it to the correct setting if needed

[dathers]

?35(ish) is defo what i paid at a vaux main dealer for a cold start valve,about 6 years ago,maybe they made a mistake,but that is defo what i paid.
I remember it costing just less than ?100 as i got some other bits aswell.
Try a boshe service agent as the cold start valve is not specific to the nova gte/gsi,its on alot of cars with L-jetronic injection.
Test it before you shell out for one,take it off,look through it,when cold it should be open,maybe not fully open as it depends how cold,put it in the freezer for a bit and it should open pretty wide,then connect the terminals to 12v,you should feel it slowly warm up and the valve will close and you wont be able to see through it,this closing of the valve happens VERY slowly,it may take ten mins,it happens quicker on the car as it heats up quicker through engine heat as well.
I wouldnt buy a new one,not if you have to pay ?174!! Get one from a scrappy,they are on quite a few older cars.
Or just clean yours,spray shite loads of carb cleaner down the hose connections and let it soak until clean,they dont usually go wrong to be honest,they are only simple things.
Dave

[raygsi]

Excellent advice - I've got all the bits to do a bench test on the Cold Start Valve and clean-up if necessary.

I asked the Vauxhall parts guy about the price and their comment was "Either Vauxhall don't have this item in stock (read - they don't want to remanufacture it so ask the next guy that comes along a stoopid price and if he/she bites we'll do it) or they don't make the part anymore (read - like the Exhaust Gas Re-Circulating valve - I DIY's a fix for that - kindly broken when the head gasket was replaced by a non-Vaux nationwide retail chain! so let's get the re-tooling costs from the remaining mugs out there who still want to run an 11-year-old car?)

Ray
(Happy to prove that if there's a faulty part you guys can spot it & I can hopefully fix it!)