View Full Version : help!!! before the engine goes in the canal
before xmas, during the really fun snow we had.. i was using my car for commuting as my pickup was needed elsewhere.. the car did a sterling job. then i got my pickup back & the poor little car got left in the yard at work. then it went off for paint (see my xmas pressie thread for other details), then it came back with a totally flat battery..
anyway, i went to start her (e16se) and it won't run.
1. it turns over
2. it has fuel
3. i did the fault codes & nowt
4. i plugged in my gm diagnostic thing, and all seems ok
5. it sparks, when a plug is out and earthed on the engine
6. the fuel pump is getting fuel round the system
7. the cambelt is fine.
8. there are no major air leaks on the inlet.
9. i even tried the other ecu/afm
10. i made it sort of fire on easy start.
11. the spark plugs are covered in fuel
12. the chassis earth is fine.
13. i have swapped the ht leads, arm & cap
so folks, what is wrong with it, and if an answer has the words redtop, let or xe, i will hound you till you beg me to stop.
my thoughts are fuel pump, dizzy or coil.
please help, i'm getting really peed off with it.
Have you just charged the flat batt, or replaced it?
mk1nova_rich
06-02-11, 06:14 PM
Well it sounds to be fuelling ok.... so either coil or dizzy would be my guess
Or the battery is fubarred
earths to the fuel rail ? i recently re-built my 1400 corsa head, started straight away but once i piped everything up id missed out connecting the 2 browns and it would start, confused us for hours and we only found it by mistake when the earths touch and it fired up
the battery has been fully charged and drop tested, and it didn't split the casing, so its ok....
seriously, the battery is fine, he took the doors off & didn't disconnect the earth lead, so the interior light was on. it has been slowly trickle charged & tested with our discharge tester.
earths to the fuel rail ? i recently re-built my 1400 corsa head, started straight away but once i piped everything up id missed out connecting the 2 browns and it would start, confused us for hours and we only found it by mistake when the earths touch and it fired up
the fuel rail is earthed to the inlet. all the other earths seem ok. the gm diag. box says injectors are firing ok, the plugs are getting wet.
it is definitely sparking when a plug is in daylight.
it ran fine and i simply parked it, ok it was heffing cold but the car had been out in the cold for the past week or so with no trouble
so was mine mowgli but as soon as we touched the 2 browns to the rail (where the mechanical fuel pump would go) it fired up, i had the same symptons, sparking, fuelly plugs etc
tommy8252
06-02-11, 06:50 PM
Have you checked the temperature control switch?
Have you checked the temperature control switch?
is there a resistance figure in haynes??? cos i don't fancy taking it out unless i have to
so was mine mowgli but as soon as we touched the 2 browns to the rail (where the mechanical fuel pump would go) it fired up, i had the same symptons, sparking, fuelly plugs etc
i'll give it a go, but i haven't taken any wiring off.
General Baxter
06-02-11, 07:01 PM
want me to come and have a look? after work ?
i got mikes 1.6 running, just by looking at it lol
dont forget that plugs can spark out of the engine but then when in the engine the pressure affects them. you tried bumping it via towing?
phunkynova
06-02-11, 07:23 PM
It may help you I had a similar problem with my car it would only fire on starter fluid it turn out to be the crankshaft speed sensor
Southie
06-02-11, 07:31 PM
Have you an alarm/immobilser on it, if so it could be worth checking.
does the e16se run a cts mike?
Southie
06-02-11, 07:38 PM
Double post.
when you say cambelt is ok, have you checked the timing marks line up? could have jumped teeth. got compression?
craig green
06-02-11, 07:44 PM
does the e16se run a cts mike?
yes, under the dizzy, but not a crank sensor as previously suggested.
I would put 4 new spark plugs on it & gap them down to .6mm. You could try that with the current old plugs, but if they've been soaked in fuel they are fecked anyways.
Are the plugs heavily fuel fouled? Fuel pressure ok?
Have you an alarm/immobilser on it, if so it could be worth checking.not in the conventional sense... the power is there...
Are the plugs heavily fuel fouled? Fuel pressure ok?
recent plugs. not soiled.
i don't have any way of checking it... it appears to have pressure, but i'm not sure how much.
when you say cambelt is ok, have you checked the timing marks line up? could have jumped teeth. got compression?
it is fine. i checked that first. there is compression.
Hall sensor in the Bosch dizzy?
Hall sensor in the Bosch dizzy?
this was my next suggestion.
i actually found a decent parts bloke at a factors in hinckley that told me the connections go on them.
New battery & plugs..
If its sparking and has fuel either the spark isnt strong enough or plugs are shot. Or not enough fuel.
New battery first. Wont be crank sensor as it wont spark if its shot. They run with any other sensor down so its not sensor related, its ignition or fuel.
you have another dizzy to try?
New battery & plugs..
If its sparking and has fuel either the spark isnt strong enough or plugs are shot. Or not enough fuel.
New battery first. Wont be crank sensor as it wont spark if its shot. They run with any other sensor down so its not sensor related, its ignition or fuel.
the E16 doesn't have a crank sensor as engine speed is determined by the hall sensor in the dizzy so if it goes wrong it may not show a fault code but will not show the ecu the engine is turning,
been there before on my gte, changed the dizzy and away it went,
Agreed, i've also seen a non start e16 caused by the hall sensor.
Fair play. But its sparking, so id guess its not that
But the spark will come from the coil and rotor arm and not the hall sensor that monitors engine speed for the ecu,
So its sparking at the wrong time?
Doubt it, if the ECU doesnt know where the engine is, it wont send power to the coil to spark, surely?
Not sure how the actuall process goes but in the past I had similar problems, spark but no start, changed the the dizzy and it went first time, I still have the old dizzy ( it's my clepto side ) that I'll send of for a refurb,
so basicaly I'm just applying my basic logic lol
I cant see anyone designing an ECU that will send power to coil if it doesnt know where the engine is?
I may well be wrong though!
16v Nova Kev
06-02-11, 10:49 PM
someone playing funny buggers and moved the timing 180deg.
C612DNM
07-02-11, 05:04 AM
My suggestions are:
Injector rail earth(s)
Hall sensor/dizzy
Plugs - failing under compression
Get this: coolant sensor (the one under the dizzy) - if it's telling the ECU that the engine is hot, it won't give you the extra fuel you need for cold start.
Though it ought to cough and try to fire, and sniffing ether (crack cocaine in a can for engines) should have had it going.
Kev's idea of 180 out also came to mind.....
Have you tried dragging it to see if it'll go at speed?
tommy8252
07-02-11, 07:54 AM
Don't know bout resistance but I was just thinking that if its been sat through the cold it could have killed the tcs. I wired mine in wrong (tried to wire the temp gauge in to it) it took half an hour of cranking to get it to even try to start I ended up killing the starter.
injector rail earth ok......
coil resistance 1.2ohm
cts appears to have a satisfactory resistance, but i'll get a new one.
injector rail earth ok......
coil resistance 1.2ohm
cts appears to have a satisfactory resistance, but i'll get a new one.
tried another dizzy yet? :)
nope, haven't got one, but as apart from the rotor the only moving part is the hall effect sensor, i'll investigate getting a new sensor.
sounds very very silly but have you made sure the air filter / throttle body / fuel lines arnt blocked last car i had painted had filler dust everywhere lol
sounds very very silly but have you made sure the air filter / throttle body / fuel lines arnt blocked last car i had painted had filler dust everywhere lol
i have tested all that, and fitted my other ecu's/afm's.... made no difference.
so, i finally got a couple of hours to play with the car today...
i swapped: dizzy, cap, rotor arm, coolant temp sensor, ecu, plugs, ht leads,
i checked every single connection, pipe, jubilee clip,
i then charged the battery up....
and now it works .... i starts quicker, runs smoother, has tons more power, and the only thing is that the eml flashes at about 4500-5000rpm under hard acceleration....then goes out.....
anyone prepared to guess what fixed it??? cos i don't know.. my money is on the plugs, but i think everything i swapped made an improvement..
Maybe it was just " it's time of the month "
I'd still say dizzy and maybe ht leads,
you mean you didnt do it one thing at a time to find out
i tried it after swapping the cts, & then dizzy, but it didn't seem to make much difference, as the battery was getting low, so while it was charging, i just stuck the other bits on......
what annoyed me was that i checked every sensor, level, pipe, circuit, and no fault showed up...everything appeared ok.
the engine did it to me once before, about 15 years ago, and out of spite, we towed it down the road at decent speed, and dumped the clutch.. it worked then.
ste porter
26-02-11, 10:24 PM
memory has deserted me but does the e16se run a crank sensor or is it just the c16se (dispack gsi engine) that run them because my money would have been on that
brought a gsi for 200 quid as it one day packed in on the owner under very similar situation and all that it turned out to have wrong with it was the pin in the plug for the crank sensor had moved down in the plug and wasnt making a proper conection!
if it runs one and you have been through all the plugs its possible
ste porter
26-02-11, 10:33 PM
Wont be crank sensor as it wont spark if its shot. They run with any other sensor down so its not sensor related, its ignition or fuel.
not completly true mate reason i say this in confidence is i have a let sat in the workshop at the minute that throws a proper fit as soon as you hit between 4.5 and 5 k under hard acceleration no eml checked everything couldnt solve it tryed the crank sensor out my cav (known working) and it ran spot on so tryed his in the cav and the cav suddenly gained a 5k rev limit!
sensor works at low speeds but not at higher speeds i presume it breaks down or something
so when there nackered they can still work but not correctly
ste, the e16se runs off a hall effect sensor in the dizzy, like the spi ones...
before xmas, when it was previously running, the eml was coming on at 3k and it was a bit gutless, but it was running..
now, i don't notice a drop off in power.. when the light comes on, but it goes off straight away, and isn't showing a fault when i start it...
the s/hand dizzy is probably something to do with it..but i'm not going to attempt to test it off the engine, unless my daughters science teacher will lend me an oscilloscope...
The light needs to be on for 30+secs iirc for it to store a code.
And yeah e16se relies entirely on the dizzy hall sensor
so i've got to sit it on big revs for 30 seconds to hold the code??? well i'll try it, but it never stored it before when the light was coming on at 3k.......
Well yeah, the light needs to stay on to store a code. If it comes on and then goes off seconds later it wont get stored.
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