View Full Version : Household Radiators- advice needed
sparkie1401
18-01-11, 09:50 PM
as some off you will be aware i have recently purchased a hous efor myself n guin to reside in and do rude things to girls
i will be replacing the raditors throughout and need some advice opinions?
all my rads are mostlikey the originals from when she was built, 1975/6
single skin, all 620mm high and varying in length
i was thinking off replacing them with double skin, single convector rads and havfing the length of my current units
eg the two in my loung n diner are 620 x 2150, so replace with 600 x 1200?
and whats BTU?
HELP PLEASE :thumb:
btu = british thermal units. You need the correct btu sizing for your rooms.
16v Nova Kev
18-01-11, 09:54 PM
you can work out what you need by calculating the volume of each room.
sparkie1401
18-01-11, 09:59 PM
carry on chaps
i cant rememeber how to do area calculations from my school days
google ftw :p
http://www.theradiatorcompany.co.uk/heatoutput/
Length x width x height.... lol
Or just fart quiety and see how long it takes to reach the lass on the other side of the room.
16v Nova Kev
18-01-11, 10:03 PM
pay some chunt your packing lol
sparkie1401
18-01-11, 10:06 PM
google ftw :p
http://www.theradiatorcompany.co.uk/heatoutput/
just found that, done 3 rooms but will have to measure the rest tommorow lol
sparkie1401
18-01-11, 10:08 PM
Length x width x height.... lol
Or just fart quiety and see how long it takes to reach the lass on the other side of the room.
cheers jack its 16 yrs since i needed that, do u know everything lol
i dont have a girl to fart n test so ill do the google find
brainsnova
18-01-11, 10:24 PM
If the radiators are that old then the boiler must be a ****ter. Worcester Greenstar ftw. Also don't fit singles just fit double panel single convectors where needed
i cba to work out btu just fitted bix doubles in all rooms, i got mine from toolstation as they were uber cheap!
tool station, screwfix etc are all cheap for rads.
fit the same size but doubles, and put thermostatic rad valves to all bar the bathroom one. DONE.
sparkie1401
19-01-11, 07:30 PM
yes saw toolstation were v cheap
are they decent quality rads?
why not fit a thermostat valve on WC rad?
yes i was thinking double rads with single convectors
you dont fit TRV's to one rad in the system to prevent all the rads from shutting off ad causing the boiler to max out.
The bathroom rad is one most folks dont care if its too hot so thats usually the one left without a trv
sparkie1401
19-01-11, 09:00 PM
you dont fit TRV's to one rad in the system to prevent all the rads from shutting off ad causing the boiler to max out.
The bathroom rad is one most folks dont care if its too hot so thats usually the one left without a trv
cheers stu
is one wc enough to be without a TRV?
as i have a main WC, my ensuite wish is quite big an im putting a small downstairs pi55er in
2 main batrooms will have towl rad style rads
2 main batrooms will have towl rad style rads
Best off not having TRV's on these anyway so your towels are toasty warm all the time :d
sparkie1401
19-01-11, 09:07 PM
Best off not having TRV's on these anyway so your towels are toasty warm all the time :d
touche, good thinking :thumb:
touche, good thinking :thumb:
They're also called towel radiators for a reason, so don't do what my dad did and put one in a small bathroom with a normal radiator both without TRV's, you couldn't even use it as a greenhouse it's that fecking hot in there.
Had my toolstation rads fitted for 3ish years with no problems, they are identical to the B&Q etc ones just quarter of the price, they are all made in the same sweat shop in china!
brainsnova
20-01-11, 09:19 AM
You don't fit a trv to one radiator so it's a bypass to stop the boiler overheating. Your best to put inhibitor into the system
i remember when i swapped by boiler over, that all the rads already had trv's on them... it has never failed, or gone bang, but the bathroom one is on max...
i remember when i swapped by boiler over, that all the rads already had trv's on them... it has never failed, or gone bang, but the bathroom one is on max...
thatll be why..
you might also have a differential bypass valve too which will simply bridge the feed/return lines if the pressure/temperature is too high (but below the boiler cutout temp)
my boiler is a high capacity one & is underworked... if we ever get the extension done, it still won't be over worked..... it is also set on a fairly low thermal output. it is very cheap to run.
brainsnova
20-01-11, 09:46 AM
When I replace my combi I'm fitting a big one so when the hot tap is on in the bathroom then it still has similar pressure in the kitchen
it won't do it unless you start getting clever with boost pumps etc.... the problem is that once a tap is opened, the mains water pressure will immediately go there, and the second tap won't get much.
brainsnova
20-01-11, 10:19 AM
It will be fine as the higher the hot water output the more litres it can heat and fire out a minute and now it's ok but I want it better.
If you are running a shower aswell then i would aways fit a expansion tank and pump.
brainsnova
20-01-11, 10:23 AM
My shower is electric :thumb:
that is the route i'm going to have to go next. unless, i can rig up my second cold feed from the (outside toilet) to run the cold feed thru the house, and leave my original feed running the shower & boiler.
My shower is electric :thumb:
and any sudden drop in pressure = skin boiling
brainsnova
20-01-11, 10:41 AM
When I get a new boiler I ll get a mixer shower but until then I could get boiled.
having a higher output DHW combi wont mean you can have mains pressure at all taps.... Physics is against you in a big way :(
to have high water pressure at each open tap means you need an expansion tank/traditional setup with a high pressure side. Combis are just for one tap/item at a time im affraid
brainsnova
20-01-11, 10:56 AM
I suppose it's the price you pay for hot water on demand.
tbh it takes atleast 30 seconds to get hot water from a combi, whereas a decent high pressure tank has it there and then. And stays hot for a long time now.
I've been weighing up the pros and cons of converting to a normal system boiler and HP tank compared to just slinging another combi inplace of the POS we have now. The HP tank is so tempting as the bath would fill in seconds rather than 10's of minutes lol
You can run a storage tank on a combi win win!
Combination Storage Boilers
By adding a storage tank to a combi, the problems of flow rate reduction are progressively overcome, depending upon the size of the tank. Now you can use a couple of taps simultaneously, without an unacceptable drop in performance.
The advantage of this system over a conventional boiler and storage tank is that the hot water never runs out. Even after running a bath, a combi storage boiler doesn't need time to recover before you can use it again. So there's no need to plan your hot water requirements, hot water is always there.
However, the flow rate from an average combi storage boiler does not match the high flow rate from a modern system with an unvented storage tank.
still a lose as combis are just plain dog turd in terms of reliability and lack of quality given the stupid cost of the units
tbh i havent had a problem with my worcester it seems you get what you pay for with them.
"So there's no need to plan your hot water requirements, hot water is always there."
That makes it worth it imo, organising showers etc at home is an utter PITA as the manual shower pump empties it right out on a decent shower, then waiting just long enough for it to warm up means it's not as hot and runs out quicker, so here begins the vicious circle lol
brainsnova
20-01-11, 02:55 PM
Worscester and valiant combis are very reliable
flyin flea
20-01-11, 03:53 PM
Had a major overhaul of my heating & water a year ago.... I went for none of the above!.....
Heat only boiler with unvented heating system, and a storage tank holding 210litres of raging hot water at mains pressure. Need I say, we have insantanoues hot water at any time and its NOT affected by turning on other hot taps.... so no icy shocks in the cloud burst shower! +Heat only boiler has very little to go wrong with it.
When summer arrives I flick a switch so the water timer controls an immersion heater (instead of running the heating boiler and making the house warmer). I spent a wad on cavity and loft insulation, so its now not unknown for the heating to be off from May to October!
Had a major overhaul of my heating & water a year ago.... I went for none of the above!.....
Heat only boiler with unvented heating system, and a storage tank holding 210litres of raging hot water at mains pressure. Need I say, we have insantanoues hot water at any time and its NOT affected by turning on other hot taps.... so no icy shocks in the cloud burst shower! +Heat only boiler has very little to go wrong with it.
When summer arrives I flick a switch so the water timer controls an immersion heater (instead of running the heating boiler and making the house warmer). I spent a wad on cavity and loft insulation, so its now not unknown for the heating to be off from May to October!
Would it not have been better to fit a decent 3 way valve to simply use the gas boiler to heat the tank rather than expensive electricity (yes I know about economy 7 but its not that convenient at times).
My 'ideal' setup would be a twin coil large unvented tank that has a solar panel heating it up and when the panel isnt doing its job then have a system boiler to do that job, and also an electric boiler as backup for when the gas one fails (and it will since even the bestest british ones are poor vfm).
Jobs a carrot
flyin flea
20-01-11, 06:03 PM
Thats more or less what I did.....
Heater feed goes to three zone valves...
1) Upstairs controlled by stat 1
2) Downstairs controlled by stat 2
3) Water storage tank controller by timer
Yes, some say heating water (only in summer mind) by electric is more expensive, but the stat for the immersion heater is set far lower than for the stat for gas heated water. And, during this time the heating is off....i.e we use zero gas.
Funny you should mention free heat... reason I did used a storage tank is so I can heat it by any means, gas & leccy so far, and 'one day' I can add a ground heat pump = hot water.... for free.
well nearly free lol still needs electricity to pump the fluid, but thats not much.
I'd love a ground source heat pump and solar array. Not for econess, sod the planet, but to save running costs
flyin flea
20-01-11, 08:17 PM
FTR, separate zones for upstairs and downstairs to stop the age old problem with central heating.....
Its winter, the heating works its balls off to get the downstairs (where the stat is) nice n warm. Meanwhile any heat that makes its way upstairs only adds to that output from the rads upstairs, resulting in it bein tropical upstairs + a waste of excess heat. To stop this the upstairs stat closes the zone off. Resultin in roasting hot downstairs, nice cool upstairs.
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