View Full Version : C20XE fuel pump/relay problems? (nova)
Ok come to another standstill with my build! :mad:
We hooked the battery up today to test all electirics nothing caught fire thank god but have one very strange problemooo?
When you usually turn the ignition on the fuel pump relay clicks then fuel pump does its job before you start it....
Well mine does that but the fuel pump does not turn over checkd all conections, and made sure i was getting a good connection etc that was fine. (bridged the relay plug and fuel pump works fine) But then when i use the flashers on indicator stalk it activates the relay and pump for a second.
If you flash by pressing the stalk forward it does not click or run pump??? only works when you flash pulling stalk towards you (INTERMITANTLY!). :wtf:
Its getting pulse from somewhere and trying to find it!
NIGHTMARE!!! Help please rep to anyone who can help! :thumb:
the pump should not prime on a xe conversion a read on here today, my mates does not prime either
Ok so if it doesn't prime that's ok then. Meh I thought they allways did.
But the flashing on pulling the stalk which makes pump prime doesn't make sense ?
davidfox280585
16-01-11, 01:09 PM
how have you wired your engine switched live by any chance as it seems a bit weird as the only thing i can think of is you have tapped into the light wiring instead of taking it from the old coil wiring
is the brown earth from behind the headlights connected to the gearbox strap point?
we have stripped it back again checked all connections and earths and still no joy :mad: we are now possible thinking ecu as we are getting power through curtain pins we shouldnt be getting.
Makes no sense
HELP :(
davidfox280585
21-01-11, 10:41 AM
that doesnt make no sense mate as your engine loom isnt one bit connected to your light loom so again recheck where you have tagged into, have you wired your dump direct to the xe loom or tagged into the standard wiring, id advise fresh wiring to the pump tagged direct to the xe pump relay wise unsure of colour but its in the xe wiring guide on here
that doesnt make no sense mate as your engine loom isnt one bit connected to your light loom so again recheck where you have tagged into, have you wired your dump direct to the xe loom or tagged into the standard wiring, id advise fresh wiring to the pump tagged direct to the xe pump relay wise unsure of colour but its in the xe wiring guide on here
Yeah we have used the very good guide off here but some wires on engine loom are diffrent colours to what are said on here. only reason i can think of is that this loom is from a Astra GTE so diffrent colours. we have a wireing diagram so traceing all wires and cant make nothing of it :mad:
Im not there this weekend as i have astra x20xev with a headgasket gone so not going to be there but andy who is doing most of the work is stripping everything back again.
He seems to think it maybe ecu related due to he is getting power for curtain things from the wrong pin on ecu.....
its so odd though you push for high beam forward and get nothing.....
then when you flash pulling it towards you occasionaly get a pulse and relay for fuel pump clicks! FOOOKING weird! :(
davidfox280585
21-01-11, 11:33 AM
presuming your running dizzy, the fuel pump shouldnt energize until the engine is cranked,regardless pulling the flash shouldnt do anything hence why i think the wiring is wrong how its been put in, have you no access to a later dizzy loom, the later dizzy looms run lambda, personally id wire a later dizzy loom in what the colours are labelled on the guide on here, though if your saying you know the colour diagram then redo your connections, the crank sensor senses rotation telling the ecu that its being cranked thus giving the fuel pump a power feed there its a pretty simple system
This is copy and paste from email he sent me. he is now registerd with png so should be able to answer question
Ok so the problem is this. With either ign on or off and with either headlamps on or off the following happens
When you "flash" the high beam every now and then the FPR activates but only for a split second and may only happen once in fifteen flashes, other time four or five time on the trot.
This only happen with flash and doesen't happen if the flick the main beam on. Doesen't happen if you disconnet either the switch or battery live to ECU has to have both connected.
Doesn't happen if you remove the high beam fuses but does happen if you replace one or both fuses. Swapped indicator switches and FPR's and done the following
Checked Fuel Pump feed to fuse box and from fuse box to pump - OK
Checked & cleaned all earth wires to body - OK
Checked continuity on all wires from Relay plug to ECU plug - ok
Checked pin 85b to ground and got 2.96 ohms - OK
Checked pin 87 RTBL on FPR. Voltage with ign off 0.01v and ign on - battery voltage
Checked continuity on all earth wires from ECU plug to ground - OK
Checked voltage on pin 87b on FPR Ign off 0v and ign on 0v. This should go battery voltage for 1-3 seconds when ign is on ????
Checked pin 85 on FPR, 0v when ign is on and battery voltage when ign is on- does not go off after 1-3 seconds ????
Checked pin 87 on FPR 0v when ign is off and battery voltage when ign is on - ok also checked continuity on the wire from the FPR to the air mass, pin 5 and on each injector - all OK
Checked pin 85b on FPR . 0v with ign off but goes straight the battery voltage when ign is turned on, doesn't have a 1-3 second delay nad have noted that the voltage on this wire will drop up to 4v when the problem occurs.
At a loss now but next i thing i'll pull the loom and check each and every wire from ECU to the end of each wire, May also move live feeds again and run sepreate ground from ECU body to ground.
Just can't see for the life of me how the ECU is getteing this feed
davidfox280585
21-01-11, 01:05 PM
This is copy and paste from email he sent me. he is now registerd with png so should be able to answer question
Ok so the problem is this. With either ign on or off and with either headlamps on or off the following happens
When you "flash" the high beam every now and then the FPR activates but only for a split second and may only happen once in fifteen flashes, other time four or five time on the trot.
This only happen with flash and doesen't happen if the flick the main beam on. Doesen't happen if you disconnet either the switch or battery live to ECU has to have both connected.
Doesn't happen if you remove the high beam fuses but does happen if you replace one or both fuses. Swapped indicator switches and FPR's and done the following
Checked Fuel Pump feed to fuse box and from fuse box to pump - OK
Checked & cleaned all earth wires to body - OK
Checked continuity on all wires from Relay plug to ECU plug - ok
Checked pin 85b to ground and got 2.96 ohms - OK
Checked pin 87 RTBL on FPR. Voltage with ign off 0.01v and ign on - battery voltage
Checked continuity on all earth wires from ECU plug to ground - OK
Checked voltage on pin 87b on FPR Ign off 0v and ign on 0v. This should go battery voltage for 1-3 seconds when ign is on ????
Checked pin 85 on FPR, 0v when ign is on and battery voltage when ign is on- does not go off after 1-3 seconds ????
Checked pin 87 on FPR 0v when ign is off and battery voltage when ign is on - ok also checked continuity on the wire from the FPR to the air mass, pin 5 and on each injector - all OK
Checked pin 85b on FPR . 0v with ign off but goes straight the battery voltage when ign is turned on, doesn't have a 1-3 second delay nad have noted that the voltage on this wire will drop up to 4v when the problem occurs.
At a loss now but next i thing i'll pull the loom and check each and every wire from ECU to the end of each wire, May also move live feeds again and run sepreate ground from ECU body to ground.
Just can't see for the life of me how the ECU is getteing this feed
Why is the fuel pump ran through the fusebox as the xe loom is complete with its own fueling system, try running your own wiring to the pump from the xe fpr direct see if you get the same issue
Because on an XE in the Astra the FPR feed to the pump runs to X19 and then connects to x5 pin 9 at which point it turns from BL to RTBL. This then run to F16 in the fuse box and then leaves the box as a BL to connector X16, ipn 4 and then to the pump.
If you run a direct feed to the pump from Pin87b of the FPR and the pump sizes then the result is the loom will burn out and a possible fire.
The only way this can be happening is the ecu is getting a feed from pin 3 on the euc which then triggers pin 87b on the FPR. The question is why???
The harness to the pump is 100% sound, have checked for Continuity, resistance and voltage and all is ok
Cheers
Andy
davidfox280585
21-01-11, 06:38 PM
hi andy understand what your saying but you will probally find that nearly every xe conversion is wired as mentioned and ive never known of a fire as most people(if got a brain) use a good gauge of wire and fuse it,especially as my xe is wired as so and some people dont have a choice like my car as it was a carb model originally
Hey i'll try anything at the moment but its not hard even on a carb car to wire in via the fues box.
As most people have done the M2.5 loom comes in on the drivers side so you ontop of the fuse box anyway.
F1 in the Nova fuse box should be blank if its a carb model and you can buy the terminals for the fues box from GM, so in at the top out at the bottom and along the right sill panel to the pump, nice and neat.
With this car i've turned the M2.5 loom round so we don't have to cut a nasty big hole in the fire wall and now both looms enter the engine bay on the left with the ECU fitted to the bulk head behind the fuse box, again nice and neat.
As this was a C12nz car i've removed all the unwanted NZ loom which leaves its feed to the fues box right by the hole that the loom comes through
Like i said i don't think this wire has any bearing on the problem as its the wire thats being give the problem if you follow me. But i'll give anything ago
Failing that i've take the M2.5 loom out of the car at the weeknd and recheck everything i've done, its going to be something daft, it always is and i've learnt the hard way to check the simple things first, i'm just running out of simple things.
Oh and sorry this must seem a bit rude to be just jumping in and not saying hello.
I'll put a hello up over the weekend with some pics of my fleet. I do have a Nova but is not what you would call performance. If i get a chance to give it a clean i'll post some pics up
Cheers
Andy
davidfox280585
22-01-11, 10:45 AM
Hey i'll try anything at the moment but its not hard even on a carb car to wire in via the fues box.
As most people have done the M2.5 loom comes in on the drivers side so you ontop of the fuse box anyway.
F1 in the Nova fuse box should be blank if its a carb model and you can buy the terminals for the fues box from GM, so in at the top out at the bottom and along the right sill panel to the pump, nice and neat.
With this car i've turned the M2.5 loom round so we don't have to cut a nasty big hole in the fire wall and now both looms enter the engine bay on the left with the ECU fitted to the bulk head behind the fuse box, again nice and neat.
As this was a C12nz car i've removed all the unwanted NZ loom which leaves its feed to the fues box right by the hole that the loom comes through
Like i said i don't think this wire has any bearing on the problem as its the wire thats being give the problem if you follow me. But i'll give anything ago
Failing that i've take the M2.5 loom out of the car at the weeknd and recheck everything i've done, its going to be something daft, it always is and i've learnt the hard way to check the simple things first, i'm just running out of simple things.
Oh and sorry this must seem a bit rude to be just jumping in and not saying hello.
I'll put a hello up over the weekend with some pics of my fleet. I do have a Nova but is not what you would call performance. If i get a chance to give it a clean i'll post some pics up
Cheers
Andy
no worries andy,sounds like your very clued up with the wiring so no doubt you will figure the issue out keep us posted:thumb:
Bl00dy hope so. You know when its getting bad when you go to sleep seeing the wiring diagram and wake up the same:)
Andy
Bl00dy hope so. You know when its getting bad when you go to sleep seeing the wiring diagram and wake up the same:)
Andy
lol :thumb:
Now sorted, i think but it does run. Back to the Build thread
Andy
davidfox280585
25-01-11, 04:24 PM
Now sorted, i think but it does run. Back to the Build thread
Andy
any gen what the cause was andy?:thumb:
Not really sure. At first i connected the battery live to the gang connector behind the dash. This is the connector where all the battery lives come of the main battery cable.
I tried the following test
Org Battery Live and Switched live,100 flashes got 6 blips on the FPR
Org Battery live and different switch live, 100 flashes and got 8 blips on the FPR
Different battery live and org switched live, 100 flashes and got 0 blips on the FPR
Different battery live and switched live, 100 flashes and got 0 blips on the FPR.
I've left it as No three as the switched live is connected to the black ign switch wire in the fuse box and connected the battery live to the first gang joint on the battrey cable just past the point where it come through the bulk head
I could just change it so the car doesn't have a flash on it like my 1.2 merit
Cheers
Andy
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