View Full Version : MOT rules concerning handbrakes.
TeddyThom
07-01-11, 09:32 PM
Basically, what are the MOT rules where an hydraulic handbrake is concerned? Or do they have to be cable??
I'm not sure, so before I rip out my cable one, I want to know so I don't screw myself over lol
Iirc you have to have a handbrake that will lock and stay on (hence the button release) otherwise it will fail, so if youre running a flyoff one it will fail!
TeddyThom
07-01-11, 09:35 PM
Surely though you can make it so it locks on??
Im pretty sure even rally cars retain the oe handbrake for mot purposes so if there was a way round it they wouldve found it!
TeddyThom
07-01-11, 09:37 PM
Fair point I suppose.
For arguements sake, say I managed to find a way to get it to lock on without too much trouble. What then?
Or is that too far out? lol
Then you would have to prove to mr mot man, that its not a homemade death creator and is actually up so standard to pass an mot, but even then its their discretion as to whether they pass it or not!
Thought it had to be cable operated and not hydraulic too as well as locking on.
TeddyThom
07-01-11, 09:42 PM
Then you would have to prove to mr mot man, that its not a homemade death creator and is actually up so standard to pass an mot, but even then its their discretion as to whether they pass it or not!
lol.
Right, and how would I prove this to said MOT man? Bearing in mind all they do is check that it locks on and provides enough braking force on the rear brakes, so surely that would be enough.
Right, and how would I prove this to said MOT man?
Exactly lol
And i think Lemon is also correct they have to be cable, i.e. mechanically operated:thumb:
Surely though you can make it so it locks on??
Has to be cable operated sonlips.
You probably could devise a contraptoin so they can fully lock using hydraulic force only.
However rather you then me to spend countless hours trying to figure out how, as oppose to using the worlds simplist cable operated design to overcome this issue.
TeddyThom
07-01-11, 09:45 PM
Well that sucks majorly then. No point to having two handbrakes. I wanted a plain simple hydraulic one lol
No fun these days.
I reckon I could figure it out Mike.
Well that sucks majorly then. No point to having two handbrakes. I wanted a plain simple hydraulic one lol
No fun these days.
I reckon I could figure it out Mike.
I reckon you couldnt.
Going by the simple mathematical deduction that you can fit a hydraulic handbrake setup to the OE cable lever, thus not having two "handbrakes" like you say.
reevie1987
07-01-11, 09:52 PM
also your handbrake can fail on excess travel on lever and sidewards movement thought i would just state that
TeddyThom
07-01-11, 09:59 PM
I reckon you couldnt.
Going by the simple mathematical deduction that you can fit a hydraulic handbrake setup to the OE cable lever, thus not having two "handbrakes" like you say.
Thanks for the faith lol
We shall see. I might have a go to see if I can prove you wrong. :thumb:
Oh and you would have two handbrakes, due to having the two systems there, cable and hydraulic.
also your handbrake can fail on excess travel on lever and sidewards movement thought i would just state that
I know, but with an hydraulic handbrake, depending how you set it up, you wouldn't need to lift it that high...
Thanks for the faith lol
We shall see. I might have a go to see if I can prove you wrong. :thumb:
Oh and you would have two handbrakes, due to having the two systems there, cable and hydraulic.
I know, but with an hydraulic handbrake, depending how you set it up, you wouldn't need to lift it that high...
Go for it by all means, but its an easy £50 fix the way Ive done it in my car & many others. I dont quite know how its physically possible as you'd need to some how attach a ratchet locking mech to a hydraulic throw lever. Of which theres no point what so ever as hydraulic handbrakes always go back to there open position for a reason once you let them go.
By "two" like you mentioned earlier, Im referring to "two levers" but there really is no need on a road car, an you'll end up with no centre console ;) as it will not fit.
And you will need a decent amount of throw on it else the cable system wont lock at all. Mines set up to max out at 3 clicks on cable system & qaurter turn bias on the valve.
Given the above about being cable operated (which is as I always thought) how are the manufacturers getting around this with the new electric handbrakes - there is no lever or mechanical button on many new cars.
I've no idea how they work - do they electrically pull a cable, lock the abs on the wheels (with a fail closed mechanism) or something else?
Is as it says, electrical.
A motor pulls a cable to close the brake. The lever or pedal is merely a switch.
The newer cars are servo/cable operated, a servo pulls the cable into a locked position, once theyre on you can disconnect the battery and iirc there is then no way to release it.
That's what I thought but kind of decided it was a clunky way to do it. For all the messing about and additional things to go wrong you don't get much benefit lol
^stops people handbrake turning company cars. Other then that, its pretty useless.
BRoadGhost
07-01-11, 10:32 PM
All a handbrake has to do to pass is perform well enough & lock on.
Any route to this is down to you...
/\ not quite, it MUST have a mechanically operated parking brake to pass an MOT, theres no two ways about it i'm afraid
MOT Manual is clear as mud...
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_310.htm
Says that a hand operated lever is assumed but inspection should be varied for other methods. Then see the bit about hydraulic parking brakes not being allowed after 1968...
/\ not quite, it MUST have a mechanically operated parking brake to pass an MOT, theres no two ways about it i'm afraid
Correct.
"Hydraulic parking brakes as a sole means of operation are not acceptable on vehicles first used on or after 1 January 1968. However, they may be used to assist the application or release of a mechanical brake."
See here: http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_310.htm (Dated 6th June 2010)
^stops people handbrake turning company cars. Other then that, its pretty useless.
Not on Scenics it doesnt, not that id know or anything lol
novatracker
07-01-11, 11:16 PM
seen sum of the rally boys use the std handbrake leaver but with a inline mastercylinder attached to the back of it so still have a mechanical link but brakes operated by hydrolic pressure befor the cables go fully tight if people understand.
gives u a mechanical link, hydrolic pressure holding the brakes on and can be held on by std ratchet/lock ie button. oi then modify the button for events it fly off convertion or a screw inbetween the button and handle if u do it the cheap way lol
novatracker
07-01-11, 11:18 PM
kind of like this but with std leaver and make a bracket http://www.motorsport-tools.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=246120
^ That is the cheap way anyway.
The screw in the buttom makes a pikey look thrifty! lol
Yes lets turn a £50+/- hydraulic handbrake mod (excl fittings & associated pipework) into a £235+vat mod just so we can have 2 handbrake levers & be cool :tard:
Why didnt I think of that...
seen sum of the rally boys use the std handbrake leaver but with a inline mastercylinder attached to the back of it so still have a mechanical link but brakes operated by hydrolic pressure befor the cables go fully tight if people understand.
gives u a mechanical link, hydrolic pressure holding the brakes on and can be held on by std ratchet/lock ie button. oi then modify the button for events it fly off convertion or a screw inbetween the button and handle if u do it the cheap way lol
^^^THIS is what Ive been talking about since the begging of this thread but no one seems to be able to grasp the fact its perfectly possible & feasable lol
See below:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/The%20knacker/IMG00087.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/The%20knacker/IMG00055-1.jpg
Vertical fly off FTW
Dori-kan! lol
novatracker
07-01-11, 11:26 PM
to do it on the cheap u would need 1 mastercylinder think u can get a 30mm bore willwood one for £30ish clevis pin and make a L shaped bracket total cost prob around 40/45 including pipes if done that way. does as he asked and complies to MOT standards. my self i would get a proper hydrolic one with flick lock like the protec if conpeating but no point in road car. can get cable drums working just as good maybe slighty more travel...
novatracker
07-01-11, 11:32 PM
yip same thought i had but couldnt find a pic of one fitted.
to do it on the cheap u would need 1 mastercylinder think u can get a 30mm bore willwood one for £30ish clevis pin and make a L shaped bracket total cost prob around 40/45 including pipes if done that way. does as he asked and complies to MOT standards. my self i would get a proper hydrolic one with flick lock like the protec if conpeating but no point in road car. can get cable drums working just as good maybe slighty more travel...
does it fook, the brake is still hydraulicly actuated, you just have a mechanical link to the master cylinder lol :tard: to comply with MOT standards it must be fully mechanically operated
if you apply your logic, the foot brake is mechanical too, because there is a bar running accross the bulkhead to the master cylinder. lol
yip same thought i had but couldnt find a pic of one fitted.
From the setup pictured, you can modify the existing handle setup into a better more vertical position anyway.
Its just on the list of "to do" though....
novatracker
07-01-11, 11:46 PM
does it fook, the brake is still hydraulicly actuated, you just have a mechanical link to the master cylinder lol :tard: to comply with MOT standards it must be fully mechanically operated
if you apply your logic, the foot brake is mechanical too, because there is a bar running accross the bulkhead to the master cylinder. lol
the master cylinder is the part the lever is linked to giving pressure to rear brake lines as in mikes pic ie willwood lucus etc. if u retained std cable it would both have mechanicl linked (but more of a failsafe) but working off hydrolic pressure to hold them on.
does it fook, the brake is still hydraulicly actuated, you just have a mechanical link to the master cylinder lol :tard: to comply with MOT standards it must be fully mechanically operated
if you apply your logic, the foot brake is mechanical too, because there is a bar running accross the bulkhead to the master cylinder. lol
You just disconnect the clevis pin et voila, fully mechanical handbrake :)
Just make sure you tell the tester it's a fly off brake and he needs to press the button to lock it
the master cylinder is the part the lever is linked to giving pressure to rear brake lines as in mikes pic ie willwood lucus etc. if u retained std cable it would both have mechanicl linked (but more of a failsafe) but working off hydrolic pressure to hold them on.
oh right, I didnt get that before :thumb:
ok for the record.
and this is FACT!
you can not have a hydrolic handbrake on its own, even with a mechanical system in place to lock the handbrake on.
how do i know, i had this and my car failed its mot on 6 points as dangerous.
i hand cut the bar with v groves in it and had a racket that clicked on once the lever was pulled up. the cable was fitted via a bar through the handbrake that then joined the existing system under the car.
plain and simple, dont bother with it, re-locate the hydolic handbrake and leave the cars original handbrake in its place.
just so you know, my mot tester was on the phone to vosa for 45 mins discussing the whole set up and that was the final answer
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