B+E trailer licence

[db_1.2]

Anybody done it on here?

I have been looking around for information and courses, but i get frustrated with reading so much cr*p for what mostly is just useless information. So as always, i thought i'd ask on here!

Basically i want to find out how easy it is, what i need etc etc.

Thanks

[General Baxter]

its the same test as a class 1, but smaller,

you have to do the same things, reverse S then back into a space, ect:

its piss easy!

[db_1.2]

You know, i just had this feeling that you'd know about it!

Cheers for the info, i consider myself a pretty good driver, ive driven a variety of vehicles over long distances/ long times.

Ill most definatly have to have to do it, really want to get my RS to the shows this year. Do you think they would be happy with me doing it with my Sprinter LWB and a small car transporter? Although, i might find something with a shorter wheelbase, just for better manuverability.

[Stuart]

I contacted a company locally about it a few years back and they wanted £3.5K for the course+test... because I'd use it for work, they couldnt get their heads round me wanting to tow a car to a trackday lol.

[db_1.2]

Yeh i did wonder myself, perhaps they'd let you off more, if you used it say once or twice a year to travel like 40 miles a time (in my case for instance). In comparison to using it for work, and heavier type use.

I seen a test somewhere for £200-£300. If im honest, i dont think ill need any training, as i have towed loads of times, again, various size trailers from a small trailer to a large boat, and a twin wheel car trailer. And have no problems reversing (unlike many i see) or hitching etc.

[bazil]

phone the Driving Standards Agency DSA and ask them the requirements for vehicles to take the test.

as in the case of C and C+E there is a minimum lenght of vehicle you can use and flatbeds are NOT allowed as they make the test to easy.

you can use a freinds van and trailor to sit the test, you dont need to use a driving school van etc but make sure the owner of the vans insurance covers learner drivers.

if all is in order and the vehicle fits the requirements then book your test over the phone or web and off ya go.

[Graeme]

I'd also like to do this but have loads of unanswered questions

Do you have to do your theory/hazard analaysis?
Do you have to do lessons?

I have towed a few trailers but was only ok at revesing the longer ones, I used to get out and unhitch my jetski because it was too short to see on my van lol

[bazil]

ooft


http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/LearnerAndNewDrivers/LearningToDriveOrRide/DG_4022530

£115 weekday or £140 weekend

[db_1.2]

I have my own van i can use, i just didnt know if there was a size limit. And as for trailers. I have a massive choice!

I just found this piece of imformation on a very useful site.

Did you know that drivers who passed a car test on or after 1 January 1997 are required to pass an additional driving test in order to tow large trailers and gain entitlement to category B+E and all larger vehicles. Category B Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to 8 passenger seats may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) OR a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

So my licence (B) alloys me to use small trailers??

[bazil]

youd be illegal to tow a trailer with a nova on it lol

[General Baxter]

it has to be a 4 wheel horse box, iirc

[db_1.2]

Also another useful website that i didnt come across while searching before:

http://www.driveandtow.co.uk/www.driveandtow.co.uk/info.php?p=4

[db_1.2]

youd be illegal to tow a trailer with a nova on it lol

Depends how much metal is actually left!

Besides that, id never an old rotter Nova :p

[db_1.2]

it has to be a 4 wheel horse box, iirc

Does there have to be a horse in it n'all? I got a dog, that'll have to do!

[bazil]

it has to be a 4 wheel horse box, iirc

probably the same guide as cat C test, the body has to be a minimum of the same height, and width as the cab for the full lenght of the vehicle and a min of 9 meters, i sat my test in a 8 wheel tipper and now have my C+E provisional, i'll sit that in one of our artic tippers.

[db_1.2]

Looking at the sites ive been reading, they all use horse boxes. However, ive yet to find any information to comfirm.

[Stuart]

you can use a box trailer aslong as you cant see over the back of it.

The local airfield does the tests too and they use some big ass box trailer with a tarp over it. Infact that reminds me, I shall contact them to see how much it costs

[Royston]

Bazil's is about right regarding the trailer spec.

Trailer must be basically a boxvan which is the width of the tow vehicle.(or equivelent construction, frame with cover over it.

Tow vehicle must also meet DSA specs regarding ABS brakes, seat belts and additional mirrors for the examiner, if you turn up and the outfit is unsuitable, buy buy test fee with no refund



My dad use to run a LGV driving school and we use to offer B + E training, the driveandtow website covers it pretty well, you will need to know what the examiner expects as regards coupling and uncoupling, questions, etc.

A bit of backgroung reading will help, it will be covered in a DSA book somewhere.

Don't expect to turn up and just go on test and pass, would be an easy way to spend/waste £114

I would recommend some investment in training/guidance, so you know what to expect

[db_1.2]

you can use a box trailer aslong as you cant see over the back of it.

The local airfield does the tests too and they use some big ass box trailer with a tarp over it. Infact that reminds me, I shall contact them to see how much it costs

Thats a stupid idea. Im never gonna use a box trailer, and besides that, how the hell am i gonna see over the back of a flatbed trailer, when im in a LWB Sprinter panel van?!

Let me know what sort of prices you get please Stuart, ill be muchly grateful.

[Stuart]

Its for the test FFS, to ensure you use the mirrors and know WTF you are doing.

I found it 100% easier to reverse a tractor/trailer combo using the mirrors and watching the corners than trying to look over the back of it

[db_1.2]

Bazil's is about right regarding the trailer spec.

Trailer must be basically a boxvan which is the width of the tow vehicle.(or equivelent construction, frame with cover over it.

Tow vehicle must also meet DSA specs regarding ABS brakes, seat belts and additional mirrors for the examiner, if you turn up and the outfit is unsuitable, buy buy test fee with no refund



My dad use to run a LGV driving school and we use to offer B + E training, the driveandtow website covers it pretty well, you will need to know what the examiner expects as regards coupling and uncoupling, questions, etc.

A bit of backgroung reading will help, it will be covered in a DSA book somewhere.

Don't expect to turn up and just go on test and pass, would be an easy way to spend/waste £114

I would recommend some investment in training/guidance, so you know what to expect

Thanks Royston.

Ill have to look into finding a suitable trailer if i did do it. Which idealy, i do need to do it.

I was going to do as much research into passing as possible, just try to get it right first time.

Might be a stupid question, but do i have to do all that policemans shuffle business? Not that its a problem, i drive like it sometimes anyway, just for giggles!

[db_1.2]

I found it 100% easier to reverse a tractor/trailer combo using the mirrors and watching the corners than trying to look over the back of it

Most definatly, i never look out the back, even in a car.

[Stuart]

but you need a trailer you cant see over to prevent you from trying to do that ;)

[Royston]

Thats a stupid idea. Im never gonna use a box trailer, and besides that, how the hell am i gonna see over the back of a flatbed trailer, when im in a LWB Sprinter panel van?!

As I mentioned above the test vehicle must meet the DSA spec or no dice.

Your LWB MB with a 4 wheel trailer will be work against you on the reverse exercise.

i.e. the "shorter trailer" will react quickly when you consider the swing action from your rear axle to your tow hitch coupled to you LWB chassis and you dialling in lock to respond.

Might be worth looking at a shorter primemover

[db_1.2]

but you need a trailer you cant see over to prevent you from trying to do that ;)

Meh :p

[bazil]

INFO OF VEHICLE REQUIREMENTS! THIS MUST BE FOLLOWED!!



Category B + E

Car and trailer test vehicles must be an unladen category B vehicle towing a suitably braked, unladen trailer of at least one tonne MAM. The examiner may ask for evidence of the trailer MAM – for example, the manufacturer's plate.
The vehicle must also be fitted with:

externally mounted, nearside and offside mirrors for use by the examiner or any person supervising the test
an audible or visual device to indicate correct operation of the trailer indicatorsAll vehicle combinations must operate on appropriate brakes and use a coupling arrangement suitable for the weight.
The cargo compartment of the trailer must consist of a closed box body which is at least as wide and as high as the towing vehicle. The trailer may be slightly less wide than the towing vehicle, but the view to the rear must be by the use of external mirrors only.
The view to the rear should only be possible by use of the external rear-view mirrors of the towing vehicle.

[db_1.2]

As I mentioned above the test vehicle must meet the DSA spec or no dice.

Your LWB MB with a 4 wheel trailer will be work against you on the reverse exercise.

i.e. the "shorter trailer" will react quickly when you consider the swing action from your rear axle to your tow hitch coupled to you LWB chassis and you dialling in lock to respond.

Might be worth looking at a shorter primemover

Ill check, but it does have ABS, ABD and some other crazy traction thing that flashes like hell in the ice!

This was my initial thought. I once reversed my cousins LWB (not Jumbo) Transit, with a dyno-jet on the back. It was just a nightmare in comparison to my Disco 1 with a boat on the back. But i was hoping a larger trailer wouldnt be so bad with the Benz. Mainly because the wheels of the trailer will be further away from the point of hitch.

[Royston]

Might be a stupid question, but do i have to do all that policemans shuffle business? Not that its a problem, i drive like it sometimes anyway, just for giggles!

Oh yes, and the rest of itlol and L plateslol

[db_1.2]

INFO OF VEHICLE REQUIREMENTS! THIS MUST BE FOLLOWED!!



Category B + E

Car and trailer test vehicles must be an unladen category B vehicle towing a suitably braked, unladen trailer of at least one tonne MAM. The examiner may ask for evidence of the trailer MAM – for example, the manufacturer's plate.
The vehicle must also be fitted with:
externally mounted, nearside and offside mirrors for use by the examiner or any person supervising the test
an audible or visual device to indicate correct operation of the trailer indicatorsAll vehicle combinations must operate on appropriate brakes and use a coupling arrangement suitable for the weight.
The cargo compartment of the trailer must consist of a closed box body which is at least as wide and as high as the towing vehicle. The trailer may be slightly less wide than the towing vehicle, but the view to the rear must be by the use of external mirrors only.
The view to the rear should only be possible by use of the external rear-view mirrors of the towing vehicle.

Excellent :thumb:

+Rep

[bazil]

cheers for the rep, here is the full page,

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/LearnerAndNewDrivers/PracticalTest/DG_4022543

[db_1.2]

Oh yes, and the rest of itlol and L plateslol

Noooooooo not loser plates :( lol

I think ive come to the decission (spelling!) that it will be better to find a training centre with the facilities near to me to do the whole training and licence.

Thank you for all the very useful information guys, really really appreciate it :thumb:

[Royston]

This was my initial thought. I once reversed my cousins LWB (not Jumbo) Transit, with a dyno-jet on the back. It was just a nightmare in comparison to my Disco 1 with a boat on the back. But i was hoping a larger trailer wouldnt be so bad with the Benz. Mainly because the wheels of the trailer will be further away from the point of hitch.

I wasn't sure I'd explained it very well but you've got the jist of it.:thumb:

The reverse exercise is set out using a formula based on the outfits overall length, so it favours a shorter primemover.

I am not saying you couldn't do it with the LWB MB but it would make it more difficult due to the reduced manouverability of the primemover;)

[Royston]

I'm sure you would find some proper training useful, as you will learn what the examiner expects, fore warned is fore armed and all that;)

[db_1.2]

I'm sure you would find some proper training useful, as you will learn what the examiner expects, fore warned is fore armed and all that;)

Yeh, its all clearer when on a 1 to 1 basis with an instructer. I found a place not too far from me that does it.

And replying to you other post, and relating to the paragraph above. They offer 1 hour lessons with my own vehicle and trailer for £32, my vehicle and theyre trailer is £34.50 and using theyre vehicle and trailer is £38. So its well worth using the suit they have to offer, as im sure its chosen for the best pass rate as possible.

Also i gave you rep Royston, for being so helpful.:thumb:

[bazil]

I'm sure you would find some proper training useful, as you will learn what the examiner expects, fore warned is fore armed and all that;)

i'll second that, i sat my cat C test with no prior training and didnt know what the reversing excersize was all about as id never tried it.
and it aint fun in a 8 wheel tipper lol

[Royston]

Glad to be of service, thanks for the rep;)

I miss terrorising the Darlington traffic in a 38 tonne 3 dimensional classroom, trying to impart my knowledge into learners who think they know better and drive like a knoblol

[1.3sr_kane]

i am looking into doing this also. as i feel pretty confident with towing reversing ect...im used to towing a 45ft arctic trailer with JCB Fastrac on the farm.. which is crazy as i need no test to do so.. only that i am over 21 and have a full car licence...Agricultural FTW!!

[Stuart]

Can I come and have a drive of your fastie? lol

[Lewis.]

Tow vehicle must also meet DSA specs regarding ABS brakes

Does anybody know why this is? I looked into doing my B+E test a while back, as I was under the impression that I couldn't tow anything, but found out that what I was entitled to tow met my needs so didn't bother.

But saying you have to have ABS is just stupid. My Disco doesn't have ABS, and I dont have access to any vehicle with it. Its not like your actually gonna be in a situation where the ABS will kick in during the test, so whats the point?

[db_1.2]

So you can tow if you passed after '97, however only upto a net weight of both vehicle and trailer of 3.5tonne?

[db_1.2]

Hold on. After all this conversating. It turns out I won't need b+e for what I need anyway! Excellent

[Hobbit]

So you can tow if you passed after '97, however only upto a net weight of both vehicle and trailer of 3.5tonne?

and as long as the gross weight of trailer is less than the unlaiden weight of towing vehicle :thumb:

[db_1.2]

and as long as the gross weight of trailer is less than the unlaiden weight of towing vehicle :thumb:

Yeh that's right.

It will be a tight fit (she said). My sprinter weighs 2200kg, my fiesta weighs 910kg, which leaves me 400kg for a trailer. I did source a single wheel car transporter that was just right for a reasonable price too.

[Royston]

But saying you have to have ABS is just stupid. My Disco doesn't have ABS, and I dont have access to any vehicle with it. Its not like your actually gonna be in a situation where the ABS will kick in during the test, so whats the point?

I have just looked up the min requirements, I stand corrected, you don't need ABS for B + E, I notice that panel vans are also not permitted, (ABS it was a requirement for LGV/buses)

My mistake, must be getting a little rusty.

In 2006 the DSA brought a min spec on trucks/buses, 8 speed gearbox and ABS brakings system.

A couple of years later thay did away with the gear change exercise....wtf.



If you can steer yourself through the B + E spec minefield and stay within, all well and good.

The only suggestion I would make is have all the informations available, i.e. weighbridge slips for all the primemover, trailer and load, manufacturers details for the van and trailer/dolly to argue the toss if it is ever questioned by them Police, ,( and have it all worked out on a piece of paper, and don't be suprised if you get hauled off to run over a weighbridge)


Over the years upto 2008, we had had many learners coming for trailer training as they'd been pulled and found they weren't licenced.

We even had a tractor driver who was pulled with a trailer (on non agricultural work, was hauling spoil from foundations on a construction site) and was told by the Police he needed LGV C + E and came to us for training to avoid prosecution.

[db_1.2]

Ill defiantly weigh it all anyway. I'd rather use a dolly, then I'll be clear of the weight. But its bloody expensive to find a dolly with brakes. And I'd have no idea where to begin using the brakes on the car. Plus the car is not roadworthy, and will on ever be used for parade laps

[Stuart]

dolly as in some of the towed car on the tarmac? if so then the car must be FULLY road legal

[Mike]

and as long as the gross weight of trailer is less than the unlaiden weight of towing vehicle :thumb:

The cheat around this is the tow vehicle being an Omega lol or something equally as heavy.... Scorpio, Granada, Range Rover etc etc

Corsa C van......

[db_1.2]

dolly as in some of the towed car on the tarmac? if so then the car must be FULLY road legal

I did read this. Defeats the object really, cus if it's road legal ill just drive it to castle combe, as it's only up the road from me

[Welsh Dan]

The cheat around this is the tow vehicle being an Omega lol or something equally as heavy.... Scorpio, Granada, Range Rover etc etc

Corsa C van......

Not on a B license, but yes on an E.

[Paul]

Db, no you cant tow with a sprinter.

The MAM of the towing car & the MAM mass of the trailer must be under 3.5t.

The unladen weight of the tow vehicle must be more than the MAM of the trailer.

If trailer MAM is over 750kg it must be braked.

Must be within the towing weight of the manufacturor.

For exampl, my setup:

Vectra B- MAM 2180kg
Unladen weight 1379kg
Max Braked weight of trailer 1800kg

Trailer- MAM 1300kg

So MAM of Vectra is 79kg more than trailer.

Gross Train Weight = 3480kg

Trailer is 500kg under the max weight of trailer for car.

So you can tow this without trailer license.

It doesnt matter how loaded the trailer is, its always MAM, same with car, MAM.

[Dayle_]

Proper grey area and Minefield this is and another way to make money. Friend of mine looked at doing this last year and didn't bother in the end.

Its true that if you passed before August 1997 you can drive van - trailor with a car on it.

But again its the MAM weight that catchest alot of people out. But again its a grey area. I don't know anyone who has been pulled over for towing a car on a trailor and taken to a weigh bridge.

Also remember its now illegal for a trailer to be unbraked.

[db_1.2]

Db, no you cant tow with a sprinter.

The MAM of the towing car & the MAM mass of the trailer must be under 3.5t.

The unladen weight of the tow vehicle must be more than the MAM of the trailer.

If trailer MAM is over 750kg it must be braked.

Must be within the towing weight of the manufacturor.

For exampl, my setup:

Vectra B- MAM 2180kg
Unladen weight 1379kg
Max Braked weight of trailer 1800kg

Trailer- MAM 1300kg

So MAM of Vectra is 79kg more than trailer.

Gross Train Weight = 3480kg

Trailer is 500kg under the max weight of trailer for car.

So you can tow this without trailer license.

It doesnt matter how loaded the trailer is, its always MAM, same with car, MAM.

Oooh i get it now, i was mistaken for unladen weight. Thats f*cking horse sh*t. Im gonna tow it anyway, i only wanna go about 15 miles and back anyway, most of which the speed limit is 30-40.

[General Baxter]

But again its the MAM weight that catchest alot of people out. But again its a grey area. I don't know anyone who has been pulled over for towing a car on a trailor and taken to a weigh bridge.



i have 3.5ton van, loaded, + a 1.5ton trailer lol

[db_1.2]

i have 3.5ton van, loaded, + a 1.5ton trailer lol

Thats just to carry his wallet!

Did you pass before '97 Baxter?

[General Baxter]

id have been 11 lol

[db_1.2]

id have been 11 lol

Lol, have you ever been pulled n' done? Do you use it often?

I can imagine ill use mine twice this year. Hence the reason i dont really want to spend a fortune for my B+E

[General Baxter]

i used it every day for about 6 months,

but i had a company that paid for everything lol

:)

[db_1.2]

i used it every day for about 6 months,

but i had a company that paid for everything lol

:)

Wait, so you have B+E? Im confused....

[Hobbit]

Just get a proper licence like mine and save all the hassle...

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/wiggardywoo/img007.jpg

[db_1.2]

Show off

My Dads got one.

[Royston]

Just get a proper licence like mine and save all the hassle...

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/wiggardywoo/img007.jpg

Mine looks like that, except I also have

D1,
D1 + E
D
and D + E

(PCV - Bus/Coach)

The only one I don't have is motorcyclelol


The best advice I can offer is to get the appropriate licence, there is a possibility if you do get stopped without one it could also void your insurance, and could accumulate loads of points very easily.

I am older, cough, cough, I didn't need to do all this B+E stuff, but as there are loads of people who can't handle a trailer and can use them legitimatley (pre Jan 97 licence holders) so the change (which came in 14 years ago tomorrow:eek: ) should reduce the plonkers that can't drive them properly, no disrespect to those of you who can:) it's not a bad thing overall;)

[Royston]

If you do C + E LGV you will get the B + E thrown in, not that it helps as it costs between £1300-£1700 now a days:(

Mind I'm probably a little out of touch as we stopped training in 2008;)

[db_1.2]

Ill see how it goes. It may benifit me in the long run anyway.

[Dayle_]

In the meanwhile i know its a pain but when we take our car anywhere we normaly ask a couple of good friends if they will drive it as theres normaly a gang of us if we go rallying.

Saves the hastle of the test but then again i know not everyone has someone who will tow at the drop of a hat.

How many lessons do you need before you sit the test?

[blue_peg_16v]

In the meanwhile i know its a pain but when we take our car anywhere we normaly ask a couple of good friends if they will drive it as theres normaly a gang of us if we go rallying.

Saves the hastle of the test but then again i know not everyone has someone who will tow at the drop of a hat.

How many lessons do you need before you sit the test?

you might as well ask how long is a piece of string there realy mate

different people pick things up at different rates so is all down to how quickly you pick up the new skills

eg the avarage hours needed now to pass a normal driving test (car) is 44 hours i had 6 hours so all depends realy

[db_1.2]

eg the avarage hours needed now to pass a normal driving test (car) is 44 hours i had 6 hours so all depends realy

I had 7

[blue_peg_16v]

I had 7

exactly but a mate of mine had over 80 hours and only passed on his 7th attempt

[Hobbit]

Mine looks like that, except I also have

D1,
D1 + E
D
and D + E

(PCV - Bus/Coach)

The only one I don't have is motorcyclelol

I'd like to go for my pcv but the fact I'd have to do a separate test for the + E bit puts me off. I should be either able to go straight for the full test or get the trailer bit automatically when I pass the bus test.

Would also like my bike so I have the full set lol

[MK999]

If I was gonna go through all of those tests, I'd like there to be enough categories that I needed a "continuation page" of my license, so it flips out two fold lol Just not worth it otherwise :p

[Welsh Dan]

I'd like to go for my pcv but the fact I'd have to do a separate test for the + E bit puts me off. I should be either able to go straight for the full test or get the trailer bit automatically when I pass the bus test.

Would also like my bike so I have the full set lol

Good job you don't need a license for a Kart lol :p.

[Lewis.]

Just get a proper licence like mine and save all the hassle...

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/wiggardywoo/img007.jpg

No cat A = Fail :p

[burgo]

theres a place local to me that supply vehicle, trailer, training and the test for £500 iirc. i've been meaning to do it for a while

[bazil]

I seem to have D1 and D1E aswell lol, benifits of sitting a test in 1995 I guess

[Royston]

I seem to have D1 and D1E aswell lol, benifits of sitting a test in 1995 I guess

Correct, I have D + E only because I sat Class one (C+E now) and D classes ages ago and were "given" them

Wouldn't fancy trying to reverse a Coach with one of those small trailers on test:eek: would fold up in an instantlol

I am not aware of anyone offering D + E training or anyone who has sat the test

[Hobbit]

Correct, I have D + E only because I sat Class one (C+E now) and D classes ages ago and were "given" them

thats not fair :( :cry: lol

there must be people doing D + E tests as you need them to drive a bendy bus...

[bazil]

whats that B1 on hobbits picture? is that the upto 7.5 tonne catagory?

[General Baxter]

van

[bazil]

never seen it before, i dont have it

[Royston]

there must be people doing D + E tests as you need them to drive a bendy bus...

I suppose so, A bendy bus might be the only thing you could do the DSA reverse manouver inlol

Or maybe there are only "Older" drivers who have the category on their licence, so when they all retire they'll be no one to drive themlol

[Paul]

whats that B1 on hobbits picture? is that the upto 7.5 tonne catagory?

Motor tricycles / quad cycles, 3 or 4 wheeled vehicles with an un-laden weight not exceeding 550kg.

[bazil]

I really should see what entitlements I actually have, I also have 3 provisonal entitlements on my paper part too.