200bhp from x16xe

[nova_stee]

Hi am removing my c20let and f28 from my nova because i want to build a x16xe so i can do lots of track days.
At the moment it just doesnt handle with the let in at all what ever i try so this is what i am thinking so far.
wossner high comp pistons 11.5:1 standard is 10.5:1
pec steel rods
4 2 1 manifold with 2 1/2 inch outlet
2 1/2 inch exhaust system with two boxes
ported and polished head
Some type of lairy cams
direct to head throttle bodies with long trumpets to gain torque
lightened flywheel
This is all i can afford and dont want to go dry sump and carnt really afford a crank.
So what i want to no is what cams and will it make the 200bhp mark to make it a good track car.
Stee

[MattBrown]

A local fella has one in a mk2 fiesta.

218bhp.

Money no real object build though

[peester]

what suspension/brakes/tyres/engine mounts are you running..?
Has the shell had any strengthening done to it..?

[mowgli]

i read years back in CCC mag about some crazy x16xe that blew up & they needed an engine in a hurry & stuck a std 1600xe in a corsa rally car with sbd throttle bodies, a decent exhaust & arp bolts & they mapped it to 201hp.,

there is a corsa forum article on the 1800 small block, and getting really impressive power..... i'll try to find it..

[General Baxter]

200bhp from a small block xe = easy = scary lol

[nova_stee]

what suspension/brakes/tyres/engine mounts are you running..?
Has the shell had any strengthening done to it..?
Shells stitch welded with hh plates
turreted rear
v6 brakes on front drums on rear
has 15inch comp mos with 196 50 15 r888
standard mounts filled with tiger seal
rose jointed front end
still under steers due to the weight in the front and no it will handles miles better small block.
Id like to do some sprints and the totb handling.

[nova_stee]

200bhp from a small block xe = easy = scary lol
no charger lol

[mowgli]

200bhp from a small block xe = easy = scary lol
good point.... unless you are very good at maths, don't just throw a coopercharger into a nova engine bay...... it was scary without it even moving.

[General Baxter]

dont you mean awsome lol

[mowgli]

it looked like some aw fitted it......

[Graeme]

Scary when the fan belt jumped off and slapped you in the head at 3000 rpm lol

[General Baxter]

lol

not as bad as today, pulling a cable with a bar full force, slips and hits me in the face, causing blood to piss out my nose

[Mike]

Easily done. You can get near to that from the 8 valve variant .

[peester]

The spec you mention will get you within the realms of 200bhp..
See oli danker's old blue featherweight track car on here for spec.
They are a bit disapointing in the torque stakes tho..
As mentioned z18xe/x18xe1 small blocks are where i think its at - theyre putting out more torque and bhp for same or often less mods..
Im a big fan.
Click here for a bit more info on 1.6/1.8 comparison. Lee303's reply sums it up:
http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/engines-transmission/455575-1-8-smallblock-info.html

[nova_stee]

i havent bought anything yet so 1.8 could happen

[Jonlem]

Hi am removing my c20let and f28 from my nova because i want to build a x16xe so i can do lots of track days.
At the moment it just doesnt handle with the let in at all what ever i try so this is what i am thinking so far.
wossner high comp pistons 11.5:1 standard is 10.5:1
pec steel rods
4 2 1 manifold with 2 1/2 inch outlet
2 1/2 inch exhaust system with two boxes
ported and polished head
Some type of lairy cams
direct to head throttle bodies with long trumpets to gain torque
lightened flywheel
This is all i can afford and dont want to go dry sump and carnt really afford a crank.
So what i want to no is what cams and will it make the 200bhp mark to make it a good track car.
Stee
Solid lifters as well.

Cam wise there are plenty of options from Kent or Piper.

1.8 is a good move as long as its not a competition engine your building as you will be in the 2l class, I'd imagine a proper 16xe would demand better money when you come to sell.

[nova_stee]

Solid lifters as well.

Cam wise there are plenty of options from Kent or Piper.

1.8 is a good move as long as its not a competition engine your building as you will be in the 2l class, I'd imagine a proper 16xe would demand better money when you come to sell.
no not a competion engine john just some weekend fun.
Theres limited parts for x18xe when ive looked am now undecided

[peester]

Theres limited parts for x18xe when ive looked am now undecided

make sure its x18xe1 not x18xe (latter is older big block engine; dont bother with that)

you are right the z18xe/x18xe1 isnt as known/supported as the longer running, more established x16xe but all the parts youve mentioned are available for the small block 1.8.. pistons, cams, manifolds etc etc.

[Mieran]

go for 1.6 8v is you're concerned about weight, every little helps

[AlexW]

I'd love to know how much weight difference there is between the 8v and 16v. The 16v runs a alloy block remember.

[grooge]

to add to the first reply of the migweb thread about what engine came in what car my mum has a facelift vectra b with small block 1800 and fly by wire throttle so i think some vectras also came with the z18xe.

i quite like the car but the throttle response is utter ****e. not a fan of fly by wire at all.

[Mieran]

I don't know the weight difference but 8v engines look tiny and are suited for a Nova

Vectras came with x18xe, x18xe1 and z18xe

And yes fly by is really gay but for 200bhp he'll be on throttle bodies so probably won't make much difference

[Jonlem]

I'd love to know how much weight difference there is between the 8v and 16v. The 16v runs a alloy block remember.

16v is not alloy

[bazil]

Were the S1600 corsa rally cars not about 240bhp??

[Jonlem]

Were the S1600 corsa rally cars not about 240bhp??

I don't know about the S1600 cars but you can get that out of the 1600 if you have deep enough pockets

[philip]

wossner high comp pistons 11.5:1 standard is 10.5:1
pec steel rods
4 2 1 manifold with 2 1/2 inch outlet
2 1/2 inch exhaust system with two boxes
ported and polished head
Some type of lairy cams
direct to head throttle bodies with long trumpets to gain torque
lightened flywheel
This is all i can afford and dont want to go dry sump and carnt really afford a crank.
So what i want to no is what cams and will it make the 200bhp mark to make it a good track car.
Stee


ive just built a c16xe on r1 carbs but havent had rollered yet. with pretty much below spec...except im still on hydraulics for now and just having some custom cams made...should be 180-190bhp though and still wet sumped.

if it was me.

Omega pistons - far better than wossners
steel rods (i can get cheaper than the PEC and there more than fine)
ported/polished head(maybe +1mm oversized) (can also do)
catcams gold springs
machined spring bases
steel caps
steel inner/outer pump gears
arrow solid lifters/shims
verniers
high lift cams. (i can get good discount on newmans and catcams)


i can supply all the parts and in some cases save you quite alot of money on pistons, rods, cams, valves and guides and also pump gears. as far as im aware my source is the only one who now does the outer oil pump gear aswell as inner. 200-210 'could' be seen on wet sump still.

pm if want some prices on parts and genuinely serious.

[novatracker]

we are running a corsa with 218bhp and 180ft and building a sumbeam with a x16xe in it thats at 210bhp and 200ft both rally cars and using std rods shot peained and happy to rev to 7800 all day. most the power is found in the head work with these wee gems.
think the corsa myt be geting new valve springs and upping the rev limiter for next year to. (both on throttle bodies)

[peester]

hmm sorry but theres no way figures like those are acheiveable for under £7K...

The spec originally posted on this thread; on an x16xe wont see over 150lbft..

[Mike]

hmm sorry but theres no way figures like those are acheiveable for under £7K...

The spec originally posted on this thread; on an x16xe wont see over 150lbft..

Correct! This is what my mate charges for the spec below, the 1600 16v Pro Spec is £9800 odd +vat. He charges £7k for a Group A spec 1.6 8v motor lol

Club spec engine: GM 1400 16valve

Full engine management system – MBE 967EMS
EMS loom with launch control, FT shift etc
Jenvey inlet manifold
Jenvey Throttle bodies with WE injectors
Competition steel rod set (Long rod)
Pair rally spec cams
Piston set – Omega forged (Short piston)
Cylinder head mods.
Valve springs, caps, lifters etc.
Build includes; Old core 1400 engine, oil pump modification, competition shells, belt mods & oil feed mods. The engine comes with an alternator and starter motor.


A fully built engine, running on a full engine management system (built in shift light & limiter) Run in and dyno calibrated – power sheet and build sheet come with engine. Driveable from 2200rpm pulls strong from 3000 - 8500rpm power 168bhp / 126lbs/ft flat torque curve.
Total £7390 + vat (£8683.25 incl)

Options:
Dry sump system
Steel flywheel with ring gear
Single plate 7.25” clutch assembly
Dry sump tank
Tubular exhaust manifold (front or rear wheel drive)
Engine mount kits - Mk 2 Escort, Starlet, Fiesta, 205, Manta, Sunbeam etc etc.

[peester]

tbh any non-forced induction torque figures over 160lbft are comical :
SBD's own money no object 1.6 16v didnt run 150lbft.. as it says in the mig link i posted..

[Mike]

Motorsport Servics charge a shade under £10k+vat for a 1600 16v: 148lb/ft of torque at 6750rpm 215+bhp

[peester]

yeah , the more i read it the more angry i got about the claim lol..
clear you inbox mike..

[Mike]

clear you inbox mike..

All done.

[Jonlem]

we are running a corsa with 218bhp and 180ft and building a sumbeam with a x16xe in it thats at 210bhp and 200ft both rally cars and using std rods shot peained and happy to rev to 7800 all day. most the power is found in the head work with these wee gems.
think the corsa myt be geting new valve springs and upping the rev limiter for next year to. (both on throttle bodies)

You may think you have that power but you don't lol

[philip]

mike - those prices/spec looks like there off clarke motorsports website?

as for headwork, you would be suprised as the c16xe head flows over 180bhp without any mods, and then you probably only go for maybe a slight port bore, 3angle seats and welding up that stupid casting piece on the exhaust side.


dont 4get that people charge a large amount because of overheads too. if you knew the right people and pretty handy on the engine building side, im sure that someone at home could build a motor capable of those power figures, its also component quality too.

[Mike]

mike - those prices/spec looks like there off clarke motorsports website?


Nope, Motorsport Services as mentioned before.

[philip]

either motorsport services or clarke motorsport have copied eachother on some of the engine specs:S thought i recognised the specs etc

[Adam]

NA 1.6 16v, 200ft/lb of torque. Big LOL's

Not really possible with planet earth's atmosphere.

[burgo]

NA 1.6 16v, 200ft/lb of torque. Big LOL'simpossible surely

[Adam]

impossible surely

Yep lol

See the bit added onto the end of my post.
The engines VE would be like above 100%

[burgo]

Yep lol

See the bit added onto the end of my post.
The engines VE would be like above 100%lmfao so 100% in N/A form impossible

[Stuart]

VE of >1 IS possible with N/A, but its funking hard work to do and only available in a slim range.

so in short, not on that engine, but on something F1'y its entirely possible

[mowgli]

i'd imagine that all these high spec engines need 6 speed boxes & 5:1 diffs to do any good....

remember folks, competition classes dictate a lot of these build specs...

i'd imagine hp per quid, a salvaged corsa vxr engine might be the cheapest way to go, even though it would probably need a new management ecu

[Jonlem]

200lb 1.6 16v, maybe with some nitrous but thats about it.

Reliability is the issue here too, building a 215hp on stock rods is proving nothing except that you like to gamble. Although a steel crank isn't essential its peace of mind but that comes with a hefty price tag, rods however are cheap and building a powerful engine destined for any sort of competition use without some is just ridiculous.

I'm looking forward to seeing some more specs and graphs for this 200lbft 1.6 engine.

[mk1nova_rich]

If you are building a track car then I would probably go for an 1800 as you don't need to fit into capacity classes for competition.

1.8 with stock internals except for ARPs and peened rods, light headwork, cams (mild profile), decent 4-2-1 exhaust manifold (2 inch primaries tops) then some direct-to head TBs and a decent ECU. Maybe around 175-180bhp depending on cams used.

Too many people go chasing massive power figures often sacrificing torque in the process but the above spec should be a good reliable starting base, depending what other peoples think to it?!

[Danny s-p]

He charges £7k for a Group A spec 1.6 8v motor lol

Club spec engine: GM 1400 16valve

Full engine management system – MBE 967EMS
EMS loom with launch control, FT shift etc
Jenvey inlet manifold
Jenvey Throttle bodies with WE injectors
Competition steel rod set (Long rod)
Piston set – Omega forged (Short piston)
mike ask your friend how much for all these parts and are they for the e16se. thanks danny s-p

[philip]

danny - you got pm