View Full Version : Driving heel and toe in a nova
Curtoise
30-11-10, 10:28 AM
is it actually possible, i am finding it hard because of the throttle position, how do people drive them on the track what other methods do they use?
never really felt the need in any car tbh.
you could try left foot braking but thats a fine art
Curtoise
30-11-10, 10:34 AM
yeh thats not too bad, there is no need i personally want to do it because it makes downshifting alot smoother when going for a hoon, and i think it sounds cool lol
i do the equivalent on my motorbike (like wrist and hand haha) cos its smoother. i've done it in the nova and a few other cars before and its pretty easy but not really much use in normal driving in my opinion so i dont usually bother.
left foot braking can be good fun, hard part is teaching your left foot to brake as its not used to it. i have a wee honda automatic so just got into habit of braking with my left foot in that then tried it in a manual. good fun on wet roundabouts kickin the back end out but thats the only time i do it.
Curtoise
30-11-10, 11:09 AM
haha, yeh but i cant seem to get my foot at the angle needed because of the position of it as its very high
mk1nova_rich
30-11-10, 11:29 AM
heel and toe is impossible in a Nova with the standard seats and pedal positions, unless youre a midget maybe... Left foot braking can also be very useful but takes a fair bit of practice to get right, I've just about cracked it
brownbear
30-11-10, 11:58 AM
I still headbutt the windscreen left foot braking :(
I still headbutt the windscreen left foot braking :(
clearly not standard nova brakes haha
i used to be the same but you get used to it. i only drive the auto occasionally now and usually get thrown forward the first time i brake as the brakes on it are really sensitive and i dont put my seatbelt on straight away.
BRoadGhost
30-11-10, 12:37 PM
Going over to hydraulic makes it easier as the pedal is much firmer with less travel.
theoriginalGhostman
30-11-10, 06:13 PM
Ive never had a problem doing this in a nova, and that was the car i learned it in aswell, you do have to wind your foot right over near horizontal to do it.
i can do it in a nova and i have huge feet and very long legs!
adjust the pedals properly.... that is all
Cant say ive ever tried doing it, why would you want to..?
Cant say ive ever tried doing it, why would you want to..?
"to troy and be a rallee droiver"
lol lol lol
because somebody once did it in a mk1 escort .........which is also the reason for half of the tuning & fast driving decisions made since 1973
swap the door locks over too.....cos opposite lock is what its all about.....
I used to have to do it as if i let the revs die the engine would cut out lol
novasrikev
30-11-10, 06:37 PM
it does take a bit of practice but is good fun when you get into it and as it has been said i adjusted my pedles to suit me
in the end i could do it with my foot flat just edged on both pedals.
swap the door locks over too.....cos opposite lock is what its all about.....
HERO!
nova_saloon
30-11-10, 07:48 PM
yeh only problem with left foot braking if your not used to it, habit teaches you to use it like a clutch then your face hits the windscreen, amusing, record the first attempt
Southie
30-11-10, 07:49 PM
swap the door locks over too.....cos opposite lock is what its all about.....
Good grief lol
heel & toe is so ludicrous, as it means your pedals are about 10" apart..... where was it invented???? a vintage tractor or an old lorry with a crash box
nova_saloon
30-11-10, 07:57 PM
yeh only problem with left foot braking if your not used to it, habit teaches you to use it like a clutch then your face hits the windscreen, amusing, record the first attempt
"to troy and be a rallee droiver"
lol lol lol
Lmfao wonder iof he was trying to heel and toe it when he wrapped his last SR then :roll:
http://www.drivingfast.net/car-control/heel-toe-shifting.htm
Left foot braking is extreeeeeeeemely useful in a fwd when pushing on to keep the front in check and extremely fun in rwd and 4wd to be a hooligan lol
heel and toe is very useful to learn when you have a cheap gearbox before moving on to an expensive box where it makes life a lot smoother and makes the box's life a lot easier!
Also keeps the car better balanced and sounds cool when you're good at it :d
dj_wudgey
30-11-10, 09:00 PM
i find it easy to heel and toe the nova!! i like to have a play with left foot breaking aswell i learnt not to put myself through the window driving auto's 2 footed even though your not supost to lol!! but yea i find it usefull when throwing my mums corsa through the corners especially when its damp lol
heel and toe is impossible in a Nova with the standard seats and pedal positions, unless youre a midget maybe... Left foot braking can also be very useful but takes a fair bit of practice to get right, I've just about cracked it
i can do it with the edge of my foot with ease :confused:
used to have to do it in the winter or the engine would die when the revs dropped.
dj_wudgey
01-12-10, 04:42 PM
^^ yea have had to do it when ive ran the sr's into the red when i had the pooberg on and it had pulled all the sh*t through and blocked the jets lol
swap the door locks over too.....cos opposite lock is what its all about.....
Mowgli you legend lol
thankyou, i'm here all week...
i'm also available for bar mitzvahs & corporate functions
I find it easy with a size 12, but i dont see the point either. I cant see it make it any more smooth.. You'll just end up with a nice smell of burning clutch.
Almost totally point less.
paul james
01-12-10, 05:43 PM
Tried it, didn't like it, went back to having fun driving the way I want to.
dj_wudgey
01-12-10, 05:46 PM
i like it helps set the car better for corners!!
benn, i dont see how you would smell burning clutch? if done properly surely its better on the clutch?
i know its not a nova but it defo makes it smoother rev matching going down the gears on any motorbike i've ridden.
i've also been lead to believe it makes more of a difference the more highly tuned the engine is but i could be completely wrong on this. anyone know?
dj_wudgey
01-12-10, 05:53 PM
most racing/rally drivers wouldnt do it if it ws pointless!!
i've also been lead to believe it makes more of a difference the more highly tuned the engine is but i could be completely wrong on this. anyone know?
It certainly sounds nicer :p Besides that only the rotational weight of the engine would make any difference imo. "highly tuned" is such a vague statement you can't just say yes/no to that.
Done properly it means you can brake on the limit while downshifting, keeping the car stable, not doing it all means you can lock the wheels downshifting if you're breaking heavily, or if you brake less you're not slowing down as fast as you can.
Certainly keeps things smoother but it is bloody hard to get right, it will also definitely cause less wear on the clutch, unless you're holding the throttle down rather than blipping it to get it into gear.
benn, i dont see how you would smell burning clutch? if done properly surely its better on the clutch?
i know its not a nova but it defo makes it smoother rev matching going down the gears on any motorbike i've ridden.
If done well is the huge word there. Most people will just be revving it and slipping the clutch.. So you'll get some burning clutch..
I've played about doing it in my van... Makes is less smooth.
Dont forget rally cars have paddle clutches and stuff.
Curtoise
01-12-10, 08:58 PM
haha no thats not how i binned the old sr. i quite like doing it at the moment, to the people who have adjusted there pedals how have they done so? just put a longer pedal on ? im also getting used to left foot braking, personally i think it makes driving more fun when i get bored lol
ok, it is pretty much useless with a synchro box.....
with a crash/dog type gearbox, which has no synchros, it is a must, but on an average road car, it is just not needed.
ok, it is pretty much useless with a synchro box.....
with a crash/dog type gearbox, which has no synchros, it is a must, but on an average road car, it is just not needed.
Agreed.
If the shift will take your wrist off, heel+toe/double declutch, if its just normal simply drive normally lol
and having driven wagons & tractors since i was 11, it is a skill i have, but just don't use on a car.
"Granny shifting, not double clutching like you should."
well, it took long enough......
to solve all this...just change gear, dont brake and ling her in.
well, it took long enough......
You seen that? Didn't think it was on laser disc.
Curtoise
01-12-10, 09:46 PM
to solve all this...just change gear, dont brake and ling her in.
i tried that once and look what happend
You seen that? Didn't think it was on laser disc. i had a copy converted to super8
Nova_Tek
01-12-10, 10:57 PM
You need 3 feet to drive a Nova lol
You need 3 feet to drive a Nova lol
i find that having 8 inches is enough
Nova_Tek
01-12-10, 11:26 PM
wasn't talking about length, but circumference
dj_wudgey
02-12-10, 01:08 PM
i use the side off my foot on the throttle when heal and toe'ing the revs you have to wear old trainers though as it f*cks them!!
Gareth_C
02-12-10, 01:11 PM
I can drivelike this but I have my foot on a sidways angle but works for me
I still headbutt the windscreen left foot braking :(
haha me too!:thumb:
steviegsi
13-12-10, 09:48 PM
Never saw the point myself, unless your in an actual professional race, but shaving 0.0009 seconds off a roundabout on your way to tesco seems like way to much effort to me.
mk1nova_rich
13-12-10, 09:56 PM
its not about shaving time off, when you're driving 'normally' you release the clutch slowly when down-changing. Heel and toe means you blip the throttle to increase engine speed so it matches the next gear down so the car doesnt jerk with quick clutch actions where paddle cluctches and such are used
dj_wudgey
14-12-10, 01:05 AM
^^ as above and its fun two imo!! i like to try learn as many driving tricks as i can lol
dj_wudgey
14-12-10, 01:05 AM
^^ as above and its fun two imo!! i like to try learn as many driving tricks as i can lol
Just don't use the clutch lol
on my motocrosser I only use the clutch to pull away and when stopping, that all,
On my nova it was left foot braking, mega fun with a bias pedalbox and rear discs, as mowgli says non synchro box's require engine speed control when downshifting but normal cars don't realy,
I tried left foot braking on the S3 when I got it,
stoopid fly by wire doesn't let me do it :(
C612DNM
14-12-10, 10:53 PM
After racing Novas for in excess of ten years, I never managed to comfortably heel & toe mine. The standard factory pedal box isn't conducive for it. There's too much brake travel, and the gas pedal is too slow. And the pedal pivots are all in the wrong place. They need to be all on the same axis.
I heel & toe in single seaters, and cars with proper pedals boxes. If the pedals ain't right, it's slower than a bit of good old fashioned "stabbing"!!
I find that I can heel & toe quite well in my T5. The brake pedal feel is very good, and the gas pedal doesn't have a lot of travel.
With dog boxes in saloons I've *never* heel'd and toe'd. Often left foot braking, slamming it down through the box using the rev-cut/blip function on the ECU!! You don't need a clutch with a dog box if you know what you're doing.
Floor mounted boxes (to me) are best.
Just don't use the clutch lol
on my motocrosser I only use the clutch to pull away and when stopping, that all,
On my nova it was left foot braking, mega fun with a bias pedalbox and rear discs, as mowgli says non synchro box's require engine speed control when downshifting but normal cars don't realy,
I tried left foot braking on the S3 when I got it,
stoopid fly by wire doesn't let me do it :(
how does the box cope with no clutch on the downshifts? i knew it could be done cos my brother after his first ride on my crosser told me he hadnt used the clutch once but i was under the impression its not good for it, and that it rapidy shortens the life of the box?
i dont bother with the clutch on upshifts.
depends on how you ride but 4 years and its still working, and the bike is a 1991 !! simply match engine speed to the gear you need and its fine, pretty sure the crossers have straight cut gears too so it makes it easier.
C612DNM
14-12-10, 11:53 PM
All bikes tend to have straight cut gears and dog-boxes (well all the ones I've had apart!!). I had a RM100 for a while when a "boy" and never used the clutch on that!! Or on the RG500 that I once had a blast on.
It's true to that persistent hammering will wear the edges of the dogs, but if you're brisk enough with your change and have the revs right (blip), it'll be slicker than a cunning plan!
Another example of "constant mesh" gearboxes is the Eaton "Twin Splitter" - a 12 speed box use in trucks unit the bloody Eurocrats got shot of it due to noise (straight cut, dog box!!). I ran an artic until 1999 when I saw sense, and that had a Eaton TSO box. Once rolling, I never used the clutch, neither up nor down shifts. And as for speed of shift, I used to be able to out drag more powerful trucks up to about 35-40mph because my old donkey would be in gear and pulling while they had their foot on the clutch waiting for their slow Volvo or Scania boys gearbox to keep up.
Another reason why dog boxes are better than syncro's - upshifting much much faster.
all my bikes have had straight cut gears. will try it next time i'm out and see if i like it.
bazil, wherabouts do you usually ride??
the only straight cut box i have experience on is old tractors on the farm, my hgv driving sarted in 1999 so never had to use a SC truck box, in my scania if you shift to fast it doesnt like it, tend to make itself know by growling at you,
still, the clutch slave cylinder failed and i had to drive with no clutch for about 40 miles, its pretty easy if you take your time, engine speed is the key in all clutchless changes imo, regardless of box type, engine size or vehicle size,
all my bikes have had straight cut gears. will try it next time i'm out and see if i like it.
bazil, wherabouts do you usually ride??
on the farm i used to work on, usually only take it out between silage cuts in the summer.
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