View Full Version : C20XE head to Z20LET block
Has anyone done this or have any info on it? Cheers
Rick Draper
24-11-10, 11:45 PM
I did XE head onto XEV block which is the same as a Z20. I has a oil pressure one way valve installed into the block which required machining and that was it.
having a much newer bottom end, and being able to fit all the xe stuff to it, so the efi is easier to work on. as a guess
steveboyslim
25-11-10, 08:55 AM
Whats the benifits?
None.
Steve
None.
Steve
Would you like to explain why you think this then??
Because it's believed to be stronger and have a better oil system And it's allot newer so in 10 years time there is more chance of getting parts for this than a c20let.
The reason I ask is that I'm going to build a turbo engine for my mk1 but keep it running the 45's.
None.
Steve
bit of a silly answer,there's many benefits from it newer less millage bottom ends would be 1 of the main ones you would be miles better off starting with a newer block than a old one that could have done 150,000 odd miles ,still being able to use the 20xe or let wiring looms would be another as the astra or zafira looms are complicated for people without that much experience in the newer car looms from experience i would rather use the redtop head than the ecotec one after more than a few problems with the eco head on cars ive had.
bit of a silly answer,
One of the understatements of the year there, stupid answer it is but he obviously forgot this is not smegweb and his word is not law lol
I think milage is irrelevant really, depends what engine you buy, and if your going to go through all the trouble of swapping heads and blocks, it makes sense just to rebuild the XE bottom end PROPERLY.
As far as im aware, the oil system from Z20's can me modified and used on C20's anyway.
So theres the 2 main pro's destroyed! Anymore?
Edit - Im not arguing by the way, im genuinly interested :)
matthew172
25-11-10, 04:42 PM
bit of a silly answer,there's many benefits from it newer less millage bottom ends would be 1 of the main ones you would be miles better off starting with a newer block than a old one that could have done 150,000 odd miles ,still being able to use the 20xe or let wiring looms would be another as the astra or zafira looms are complicated for people without that much experience in the newer car looms from experience i would rather use the redtop head than the ecotec one after more than a few problems with the eco head on cars ive had.
who mentioned anything about ecotec heads or astra/zafira looms?
theres nothing to say a newer bottom end will be better than a xe one thats done 150,000 miles, depends how its been run/serviced
ive heard the xev bottom ends are supposed to be stronger but have seen no evidence of this.
i think steve will know what he is talking about tbh
who mentioned anything about ecotec heads or astra/zafira looms?
theres nothing to say a newer bottom end will be better than a xe one thats done 150,000 miles, depends how its been run/serviced
ive heard the xev bottom ends are supposed to be stronger but have seen no evidence of this.
i think steve will know what he is talking about tbh
well to be fair i was just simply saying some of the reasons people do it and one of the main reasons is that not everyone completely rebuilds a engine when they do conversions or replacements so a newer lower millage bottom end is always a winner in my book.
if C20LET & XE engines were the bestest ever engine ever, the ecotec would not have been made. it is a more productionised engine and has been around for 15 years now, with no signs of stopping, compared to 6 years for the others.
the z20LET appears to be a very strong engine when modified, and i can never understand why people dismiss the whole big block ecotec range of engines.
if it wasnt for the inlet being so long/swirly on the ecotech big blocks they'd be every bit as good as an C20XE imo
if it wasnt for the inlet being so long/swirly on the ecotech big blocks they'd be every bit as good as an C20XE imo
that sounds like an easy fix then..
i was always impressed with my old omega 16v estate (especially when the cat got removed cough cough) and the old hearse really went well.....for a large 2.0 16v.
was gonna offer a c20xe inlet up on the off chance but i doubt it will fit lol
same as smallblocks really, get rid of the inlet and there a god engine
if its ally, then dremel & liquid metal the bugger......
One of the understatements of the year there, stupid answer it is but he obviously forgot this is not smegweb and his word is not law lol
F lol lol lol
So does a XEV block fit a XE head then ?
im sure i remember reading about engine builders preferring older blocks for one reason or another, either way they chose an old block over a new block every time
the blocks usually get destressed with a certain amount of running. but you don't want them too worn, or the std pistons don't fit.
im sure i remember reading about engine builders preferring older blocks for one reason or another, either way they chose an old block over a new block every time
if you have a block that requires less work to fit oversize piston theyd pick that one. it all depends on application
xev engines have mostly been to the moon and back as well, so i dont think it would really matter. Ive used a z20let headgasket on my c20let, so im pretty sure they will line up ok
im sure i remember reading about engine builders preferring older blocks for one reason or another, either way they chose an old block over a new block every time
BMW used to leave the blocks they used to build formula 1 engines outside in the rain and urinate on it!
in 1980..... and i think the urine thing was a joke...
technology has moved on a tad since then...
in 1980..... and i think the urine thing was a joke...
technology has moved on a tad since then...
I saw it on telly. So it must be true! lol
Technology may have moved on, but somehow cars are getting slower, and worse in every term.
well meaning legislation has made cars 50% heavier than they were in the early eighties, so to keep the same level of mpg or better is quite remarkable. also sticking in a newish motor means your old one will go very quickly.
Modern engines are actually getting better. The new Mondeo 1.6 petrol turbo engine for example, 158hp, thats more then the 2.0 16v petrol version.
i'm getting tempted by an xe18xe1 or a z18xe for mine at the moment...
i'm getting tempted by an xe18xe1 or a z18xe for mine at the moment...
smal block everytime ;)
Pistol Pete
26-11-10, 10:33 PM
i'm getting tempted by an xe18xe1 or a z18xe for mine at the moment...
Someone else mentioned this a while back. I have the X18XE1 in my Vectra SXi. Not the fastest/most responsive of cars/engines, but in a Nova with some work IMO it would be fun!
is a 1.8 a big block or wee block or im not sure block?
is a 1.8 a big block or wee block or im not sure block?
the 1.8 ecotech came in small and big block. X18xe1 and z18xe small block, x18xe big block iirc.
small block turbo 1.8 anyone?
small block turbo 1.8 anyone?shhhh :p
Doesn't one of those x18's have a fly-by-wire throttle?
yeah, the z18 iirc
the x18xe1 is the future imo. i have one stripped and cleaned ready for a big banger build next year, the heads are better than a 2.0ltr one
Doesn't one of those x18's have a fly-by-wire throttle?
X18xe1 is cable, z18xe is fbw
djbrowney
26-11-10, 11:04 PM
iirc its an open deck on the z20let, the casting arent as good a quality neither a good a quality material. If you going for a moderate build then its nothing to worry about. But if you for a bigger spec the i would stick with the let block. Bores are not a worry as you would be fitting oversized pistons anyway. I also think they fitted a girdle to the z20let weather that was to make the stronger because they were as good a quality i dont know !
. I also think they fitted a girdle to the z20let!
what is that? ive seen it said before but unsure of its purpose or construction.
what is that? ive seen it said before but unsure of its purpose or construction.google it ;) lol
that means opening a new tab :(
djbrowney
26-11-10, 11:16 PM
This is one i made to fit a let block
that means opening a new tab :(
aint i nice
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=girdle&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a
djbrowney
26-11-10, 11:19 PM
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i70/djbrowney/008-32.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i70/djbrowney/007-35.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i70/djbrowney/010-26.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i70/djbrowney/011-25.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i70/djbrowney/010-26.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i70/djbrowney/009-28.jpg
head work (need to learn how to take better pictures lol)
manfold fits but could be up for sale as i think its going to sit to far away from the block ffs
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i70/djbrowney/012-19.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i70/djbrowney/016-14.jpg
aint i nice
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=girdle&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a
lol the image search is more fun,
DJ, i know now ive seen it in a few builds but didnt know thats what it was, i take it the idea is to strenghten the bottom end and reduse load by spreading it out?
djbrowney
26-11-10, 11:23 PM
http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&expIds=17259,20782,25907,27586,27744&xhr=t&q=engine+girdle&cp=9&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&wrapid=tljp1290813753668012&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=XkHwTMuEC8SAhAefqMmVDA&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=2&sqi=2&ved=0CC8QsAQwAQ&biw=1345&bih=531
djbrowney
26-11-10, 11:24 PM
lol the image search is more fun,
DJ, i know now ive seen it in a few builds but didnt know thats what it was, i take it the idea is to strenghten the bottom end and reduse load by spreading it out?
i would say reduce the load but at least spread about a bit more :thumb:
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q139/HamishWhite1986/Audi%20Quattro/S7003165.jpg
seen this in that audi sport build too
they've been doing that for decades on tractor pullers.. but then they run them on massive boost & methanol, and the blocks usually snap halfway up and look really funny on youtube.
craig green
29-11-10, 04:58 PM
From what I can gather & understand, the old XE/LET cyl head is always going to be capable of more efficient flow characteristics than the newer eco/ZLET style heads, so using the older head on the later block which in LEH (vxr) spec has good low comp pistons & under piston oil spray nozzles will result in a great engine spec.
The older head has a smoother route for gases in & out as the 'valve angle' is wider or flatter from inlet to exhaust port. On the eco the ports are a touch more upright in shape meaning the flow path is a bit more restrictive by design. You could argue the eco head can be worked on, but then so can the XE head. I'm pretty sure the XE spec cams are pretty aggressive & obviously readily available wheras I'm not so sure wild turbo spec cams are available off the shelf for a ZLET.
TeddyThom
29-11-10, 09:14 PM
they've been doing that for decades on tractor pullers.. but then they run them on massive boost & methanol, and the blocks usually snap halfway up and look really funny on youtube.
You mean something like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCsSVLZ6wCI
From what I can gather & understand, the old XE/LET cyl head is always going to be capable of more efficient flow characteristics than the newer eco/ZLET style heads, so using the older head on the later block which in LEH (vxr) spec has good low comp pistons & under piston oil spray nozzles will result in a great engine spec.
Now theres a propper answer/reason! None of this milage coblers. Cheers Craig
Rick Draper
29-11-10, 11:23 PM
so using the older head on the later block which in LEH (vxr) spec has good low comp pistons & under piston oil spray nozzles will result in a great engine spec.
No it will not.
X20 and Z20 blocks are all more prone to issues where as 20/C20 and very early closed deck ecotec ones are not due to the design.
steveboyslim
30-11-10, 12:10 PM
Would you like to explain why you think this then??
Because it's believed to be stronger and have a better oil system And it's allot newer so in 10 years time there is more chance of getting parts for this than a c20let.
The reason I ask is that I'm going to build a turbo engine for my mk1 but keep it running the 45's.
Open deckface that need reinforcing as the thrust face of the cylinder wall fails.
Better oil system only because of the oil pump and the VXR engine has under piston oil jet cooling/lubrication.
The c20xe is used more in competition there is much more availabe for it as many parts can be used on the c20let engine.
Steve
steveboyslim
30-11-10, 12:14 PM
bit of a silly answer,there's many benefits from it newer less millage bottom ends would be 1 of the main ones you would be miles better off starting with a newer block than a old one that could have done 150,000 odd miles ,still being able to use the 20xe or let wiring looms would be another as the astra or zafira looms are complicated for people without that much experience in the newer car looms from experience i would rather use the redtop head than the ecotec one after more than a few problems with the eco head on cars ive had.
Lesser milage I would agree although many are over 100k miles.
In most cases, after block reinforcment it will need a bore and a skim.
Steve
steveboyslim
30-11-10, 12:18 PM
One of the understatements of the year there, stupid answer it is but he obviously forgot this is not smegweb and his word is not law lol
I agree this is not the muppet web.
I agree my word is not law, I am not an expert, but I have rebuilt quite a few of these engines, some repairing work carried out by other so called professional vauxhall tuning companies.
Steve
steveboyslim
30-11-10, 12:23 PM
if C20LET & XE engines were the bestest ever engine ever, the ecotec would not have been made. it is a more productionised engine and has been around for 15 years now, with no signs of stopping, compared to 6 years for the others.
the z20LET appears to be a very strong engine when modified, and i can never understand why people dismiss the whole big block ecotec range of engines.
Most of the tuning market is around N/A and the ecotec does not respond so well to tuning in that form although it has not had the development the earlier engine had.
The earlier engine needed to be replaced for emission and noise reasons, although they did modify the block and head.
Steve
steveboyslim
30-11-10, 12:25 PM
if it wasnt for the inlet being so long/swirly on the ecotech big blocks they'd be every bit as good as an C20XE imo
The ecotec engine will loose too much mid range torque if you remove the standard inlet.
Steve
steveboyslim
30-11-10, 12:29 PM
F lol lol lol
So does a XEV block fit a XE head then ?
Yes, but the block need to be fitted with an oil drain restrictor if using hydraulic followers.
Early ecotec cavalier and calibra blocks are best suited as closed deck unlike the later versions.
Steve
steveboyslim
30-11-10, 12:31 PM
xev engines have mostly been to the moon and back as well, so i dont think it would really matter. Ive used a z20let headgasket on my c20let, so im pretty sure they will line up ok
I does fit but it will promote corrosion of the cylinder head.
Steve
steveboyslim
30-11-10, 12:42 PM
From what I can gather & understand, the old XE/LET cyl head is always going to be capable of more efficient flow characteristics than the newer eco/ZLET style heads, so using the older head on the later block which in LEH (vxr) spec has good low comp pistons & under piston oil spray nozzles will result in a great engine spec.
The older head has a smoother route for gases in & out as the 'valve angle' is wider or flatter from inlet to exhaust port. On the eco the ports are a touch more upright in shape meaning the flow path is a bit more restrictive by design. You could argue the eco head can be worked on, but then so can the XE head. I'm pretty sure the XE spec cams are pretty aggressive & obviously readily available wheras I'm not so sure wild turbo spec cams are available off the shelf for a ZLET.
I have had some cams done, mechanical profile though, first specification will see the engine past 500bhp second specification past 650bhp.
I have also had larger inlet and exhaust valves made, exhaust from nimonic 80.
As you say could make a good combination if you sort the block.
Steve
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