hydraulic lifters on high revs

[therickyt]

im running a 1.4 sr engine standard and we arnt aloud to modify them in any way, problem is that when we race its common to hit high revs and for the lifters to fail

is there any way i can stop this from happeining ie, race oil like 10/50 or drilling the oil hole slightly larger ex

any ideas welcome as were not aloud to uprate them

[Adam]

Change gear earlier? lol

If its a standard engine you dont need rev over about 6k rpm, unless of course its happening when the wheels are leaving the ground on rough hill climbs or something?

[therickyt]

its oval racing so no gear changing, you stay in second, hence my problem, gearing is set as good as it can be just need to takle the high revs

[mowgli]

don't racers just keep lots of spare followers & lifters and swap them regularly???

i've never heard of a foolproof method of solidifying them that would get past scrutineers..... but i'm sure there are plenty of solutions.. the hardest thing would be keeping the correct gap.. stripping & cleaning them out & filling with thicker oil would be useful, what temp do you run the engine at?? cooler might make the oil stay thicker..

[therickyt]

i was under the impression that for the lifters to work faster and more efficiant under high revs you will need thinner and warmer oil for it flow into them quicker anfter there pressed and oil released? i thout the cold thick oil was the problem not being able to get into the lifters quick enough therefor not pressuring and then failure due to that?

[mowgli]

they get pumped up & then the oil pressure keeps them pumped up... if you strip them & clean all of the crappy 100000mile oil out and then pump them up with new oil, & maybe look at tweaking the oil pressure, it should keep them ok... don't the followers snap at crazy revs????

[davidfox280585]

rs1600is run solid adjustable lifters maybe get a set made up????

[therickyt]

Not Aloud To Have Them Made Up Mate Only Alound Gm Stamped 1,4

I Might Just Invest In A New Set Anyway, Raising The Oil Pressure Isnt A Bad Idea, How Is It Done On These Engines? What Oil Type Would You Suggest? Is It Also True That Thay Have To Be Compressed And Empted Of Oil Before Fitting To The Engine, On My Evo We Had To Make Sure Thay Were Full By Leaving Them In Oil Over Night

[John]

Just stick with good standard ones. Sort your gearing/diff so you're not at 8k rpm when you reach the corners lol

[SR-Rally]

my road rally car has standard lifters with modified head, cam, bottom end and the rev limiter is at 8000 or just over although best time to change for mine is around 7600-7800. i was having problems with oil thinning and lifters tapping. i tried different oils and eventually found one that seems to hold oil pressure and haven't had problem in the last 2 rallys. i'l text you later when im down unit with what make it is(with the list of parts i've been promising) its not super expensive stuff either.

[therickyt]

that is great news thanks, i believe that top end will be reving around 7000 ish so hopefully that oil will be fine, there are some who have no problems at all but realy dont tell how and or what thay have done to solve the problem were there is some who have the same problem over again,

do you empty ur lifter before you re fit them or do you refit full?

[John]

I used to fit them empty.

[mowgli]

agreed, let the engine pump them full of fresh oil. job jobbed

[garyc]

you can enlarge the oil inlet in the head to get more oil to the top end. but as said before there will be no torque past 5/6k so sort your gearing and you wont need to worry about the lifters pumping up.

[therickyt]

my gearing is great for the oval, you cant gear it any better otherwise you just would get any pull out the corners, its just the top end run, but i have been recomended an oil by sr rally so i will be trying that and see how i get on,

[Novasport]

Raising The Oil Pressure Isnt A Bad Idea, How Is It Done On These Engines?

I think you can do it by altering the length of the pressure relief piston spring on the oil pump.

[garyc]

stick a washer behind the spring will lift the oil pressure.

[C612DNM]

stick a washer behind the spring will lift the oil pressure.

I did a lot of these things a long time ago, and found that

(a) hydraulic lifters are best fitted dry (used to compress them in the vice to make sure they were empty).

(b) I changed the pressure relief valve spring regularly because packing it out doesn't do it any favours long term. And I mean packing it out - even ran with a nut in there at one stage!!

(c) and oil cooler made a lot of difference, but not too cool, need to keep the oil at optimum temp (around 100-110deg C) though that point is down to the oil that you use,

(d) I ran Mobil-1 5W40, and finally

(e) dumped the hydraulics and went solid lifters.

Remember old word of wisdom - oil is cheaper than engines.

[SR-Rally]

What are the benifits of solid lifters? I'm not to clued up on them :s

[C612DNM]

You can run a much more fierce profile on the cam. This allows you to have your cake and eat it with more mid-range torque than a high revving hydraulic cam will give you. As you know, it's grunt that get's you out of corners.

Though I wouldn't use a solid lifter engine for rallying, they need constant fettling. ENEM Top Adjustable lifters were about £100 each, but the hole you need in the follower weakens them to the point where they break quickly. The Kent solids (standard spanner adjust) are fiddly, time consuming, but once set, good for a couple of short races (about 40-50minutes track time) between setting. They need to be binned after a season because they break.
I have a Blydenstein development head (Bill did it specially for me), and that's got a set of Kent top adjustables in it. They're not bad, but again, need a big hole in the follower for your allen key. They still need adjustment after a couple of races, and the threads soon loosen to the point that they need replacing. The ENEM lifters were fairly simple to swap, the Kent ones need a press and the head to be off of the block.

My 1600 GSi lump produces 195hp on 45mm bodies, with a Kent solid lifter cam, and has bags of mid range torque. It peaks at about 7200, but will rev past 8000 happily.