View Full Version : R1 Carbs or Weber/Dellortos 45s
Right, im properly struggling with this.
What would be better to run on a XE bearing in mind i want lots of power. will more than likely have lumpy cams bigger valves etc.
i couldnt find any other threads which explained the differences for simpletons
and what does the 45 mean lol its always miffed me. lol
also i do NOT want an ecu, i want as little wiring as possible....i f***ing hate ECUs
45 = 45mm bore of the carb ;) its choked down to make the fuel meter properly though. (uber simpleton terms)
wiring is easy :p mapping spark is a challenege lol.
You will need a 1600 big block cav dizzy etc to run the ign, or I think HH sells a kit but you will be raped over the cost.
tbh, if i had the money i would go bodies. all the way, but that not what your asking.
and you say you dont want an ECU. the best way of using carbs IMO is with mappable ignition, like megajolt etc. its not complicated and only have a few wires to make it work. and it stops you trying to find a big block dizzy as stu mentioned :)
comptoncj
27-10-10, 09:36 AM
Run a set of webers with a cav dizzy as Stuart said, you wont have the efficiency of throttle bodies but It will still produce good power when set up properly. Im still not convinced about bike carbs, would stick with webers IMO
MattBrown
27-10-10, 09:51 AM
45 = 45mm bore of the carb ;) its choked down to make the fuel meter properly though. (uber simpleton terms)
wiring is easy :p mapping spark is a challenege lol.
You will need a 1600 big block cav dizzy etc to run the ign, or I think HH sells a kit but you will be raped over the cost.
Good point, I got a 1600 dizzy, coil, amp and wiring for £20:thumb:
Also, an 1800 one fits too, but need to take the drive from the origional ignition, and put on the end of the dizzy to match the cam:)
Angus Closier
27-10-10, 11:06 AM
Go for a set of Webber or dellorto 45s rather than bike carbs, My teacher is running 250bhp at the fly from his xe nemisis so carbs can get you that power no problems. However if its a daily driver Id spend the extra and buy ITBs. The wiring is not that hard!! Infact if its a ready made loom them you can just chuck it in!
id go megajolt whatever route you take bubba, made a hell of a difference on preys nova when swapped from a dizzy
i did indeed know about the 1600 dizzy, im sure there was a site listed in members sec where you could get brand new one for £35ish and i think that will be the plan. im only aiming for 220-230bhp
mk1nova_rich
27-10-10, 07:24 PM
i did indeed know about the 1600 dizzy, im sure there was a site listed in members sec where you could get brand new one for £35ish and i think that will be the plan. im only aiming for 220-230bhp
I've yet to see an XE on bike carbs producing that sort of power, so 45s would get my vote, possibly even 48s depending on the other mods. The spark is one of the most overlooked aspects when tuning an engine, and for that level of power a Cav dizzy will work but there will be much more to be gained by swapping for a proper mapped ignition setup at least.
What modifications are you intending on carrying out to the head and bottom end Bubba??
novaxe235
27-10-10, 07:51 PM
i did indeed know about the 1600 dizzy, im sure there was a site listed in members sec where you could get brand new one for £35ish and i think that will be the plan. im only aiming for 220-230bhpGood luck with that, trust me I'm there and it's not a case of "ONLY" it's alot of money, if you want to buy a complete dizzy setup pm me mines for sale and done less than 1500 miles and running 235 bhp at the moment.
I've seen a bloody good XE on 45's and mappable ign just about muster 200bhp.... it made about 210ish on TB's and real management.
I'd say you would waste your fine engine build to get 220-230bhp to fit carbs, let alone bike carbs.
blue_peg_16v
28-10-10, 09:36 PM
if there the choices id go for weber/dellortos, sbd always recomended dellorto as they were said to be slightly more advanced than the webers i ran 48s and a cav dizzy and was fine sounded faping awsome, the problem with bike carbs is getting the linkage right, a bike throttle only tacke a slight twist to be open fully were as a car has alot more movement in the pedal so can be a bit like an on off switch as the pedal travel is greatly reduced
, the problem with bike carbs is getting the linkage right, a bike throttle only tacke a slight twist to be open fully were as a car has alot more movement in the pedal so can be a bit like an on off switch as the pedal travel is greatly reduced
never seen that as an issue tbh rich
although i do normally only have it fully open !! lol
my old nova was built with a 238bhp xe (i still have the graphs and bills from northampton motorsport) spec was;
omega pistons,
296 deg cams
port and polsihed head
btb exhaust and mani
twin 45's
arps
cav 1600 dizzy
and a **** load of setup time
my old nova was built with a 238bhp xe (i still have the graphs and bills from northampton motorsport) spec was;
omega pistons,
296 deg cams
port and polsihed head
btb exhaust and mani
twin 45's
arps
cav 1600 dizzy
and a **** load of setup time
10bhp right there lol
i aint having pistons, just my standard ones. but lots of headwork, i.e bigger valves double springs etc, crazy cams and i would like 48s.
Saloony
29-10-10, 08:31 PM
the problem with bike carbs is getting the linkage right, a bike throttle only tacke a slight twist to be open fully were as a car has alot more movement in the pedal so can be a bit like an on off switch as the pedal travel is greatly reduced
Not once encountered said problem(s). What dull'ard told you that lol
im only aiming for 220-230bhp
TB's, standalone, good pistons, unroadworthy cams etc or lots of very good (expensive) tricks no one ever thinks of then...
TB's, standalone, good pistons, unroadworthy cams etc or lots of very good (expensive) tricks no one ever thinks of then...
im not medically fit to sell a kidney ;) lol
Angus Closier
30-10-10, 10:16 AM
Pistons are not that expensive? £400-500??? Id say they are needed/worth it for over 200bhp. As I said before I know of an xe running 250bhp on 45s built by frank anderson at anderson race engines with a engine dyno print out at 250bhp. That has mappable ignition pistons, cams,lots of headwork,custom exhaust manifold etc etc
novaxe235
30-10-10, 10:33 AM
My engine was built by frank, for a national hot-rod originally in 2006 awesome engine at a awesome price last time i spoke to frank the price was £10,995 for a complete c20Xe on 45's and mappable ignition.
Angus Closier
30-10-10, 11:32 AM
My engine was built by frank, for a national hot-rod originally in 2006 awesome engine at a awesome price last time i spoke to frank the price was £10,995 for a complete c20Xe on 45's and mappable ignition.
yes dont get me wrong his engines are not cheap, But the are the best I have seen.
The bhp/torque curves are very smooth.
He builds lots of c20xe's and he knows them almost better than anyone else.
And his workshop is lush!!!
i could never justify spending 11k on an an engine...
tbh, i would never save 11k, hell im struggling with 1k
novaxe235
30-10-10, 01:36 PM
yes dont get me wrong his engines are not cheap, But the are the best I have seen.
The bhp/torque curves are very smooth.
He builds lots of c20xe's and he knows them almost better than anyone else.
And his workshop is lush!!!I know i have lots of friends that use frank, and i myself have used him for the last ten years he's the best about and his service is excellent, never fails for good advice on any engine.
novaxe235
30-10-10, 01:38 PM
i could never justify spending 11k on an an engine...
tbh, i would never save 11k, hell im struggling with 1kYour going to struggle to get to 220-230 bhp on a grand.
Your going to struggle to get to 220-230 bhp on a grand.
no i ment i struggle to save a grand. i know it will be more than that. im expecting to spend at least 2 but over some period of time. bit by bit like.
lol £2K wont get you 220-230bhp either... unless you go nitrous
i said at least lol. anywho, need to find some money first lol
16v Nova Kev
30-10-10, 03:03 PM
Good point, I got a 1600 dizzy, coil, amp and wiring for £20:thumb:
Also, an 1800 one fits too, but need to take the drive from the origional ignition, and put on the end of the dizzy to match the cam:)
still wont be any good unless you send it to HnH from what i have been told:thumb:
novaxe235
30-10-10, 05:13 PM
It will work and drive OK, the point of sending it to H+H is they change the springs and weights to alter the power curve so it matches your engine.
bike carbs give more mid range and driveability than webers or dells...fact, they also give the same peak too.
alot of people frown upon using bike carbs, but even my mate who has his own rollers said around town the bike carbs are better as have variable choke where as the webers/dells just spit and fart until you start to get going.
ive had a westy with an xe in with rods, pistons, ported head 270 newman cams and r1 carbs make 190bhp@wheels at only 6.5k. so i know they work very well on a 20xe
16v Nova Kev
30-10-10, 08:35 PM
plus 1 philip.
Saloony
30-10-10, 08:46 PM
2nd that... Still enjoy R1's
MattBrown
30-10-10, 09:18 PM
It will work and drive OK, the point of sending it to H+H is they change the springs and weights to alter the power curve so it matches your engine.
Correct, I'm going to send mine at somepoint soon!
I have bought an inlet manifold flange off eBay, and am going to start making my manifold this next few months.
I'm still unsure of 36mm zzr carbs, or 42mm r1 carbs!
so...i still have no difference between carbs n bike carbs lol except the price
oh r1s are 42mm? so 45s or 48 would be bigger.
i was told an xe needs to have 45s preferably to achieve good performance as 40s aint big enough
novaxe235
30-10-10, 09:48 PM
Correct, I'm going to send mine at somepoint soon!
I have bought an inlet manifold flange off eBay, and am going to start making my manifold this next few months.
I'm still unsure of 36mm zzr carbs, or 42mm r1 carbs!It wasn't a question i wanted a answer to, I've forgotten more about tuning a c20Xe than you know.
MattBrown
30-10-10, 09:54 PM
It wasn't a question i wanted a answer to, I've forgotten more about tuning a c20Xe than you know.
Cheesus, if you blew your own trumpet any harder I could hear it from here
novaxe235
30-10-10, 10:02 PM
Cheesus, if you blew your own trumpet any harder I could hear it from hereYou are a 18 year old with a big mouth that's been every where done everything and achieved nothing, one day someone will shut it for you.
png rules......choose one, then take 10 paces....
http://www.replica4handbags.com/uploadfiles/burberry-51.jpg
novaxe235
30-10-10, 10:09 PM
B, the biggest one so i can put him in it and "drop" him somewhere.
Angus Closier
30-10-10, 10:34 PM
B, the biggest one so i can put him in it and "drop" him somewhere.
Hahahaha, lol
I have never had any experiances with bike carbs so I wont slag them. However I have with 45s so il express my feelings for them.
You dont need 48/50s for 250bhp 45s with the biggest choke will do fine.
IMO you can have a 220bhp xe for 2k If you went 2nd hand with most of the bits.
Id rather a 250bhp xe than a 250bhp let.
If you need help get on the phone to frank he is one of the best imo!:thumb:
i dont mind 2nd hand stuff...as long as its good cond, or can be serviced i.e carbs.
my x had a caterham built LET...550bhp on nos, or 350 un nos'd...or something like that. was rediculus. was pretty unreliable. could have been the calibra it was stored in
bubba - i cant supply 2nd hand parts but if needed rods, pistons, cams, springs etc to build a ecent spec XE let me know and ill see what i cold do for you.
bubba - i cant supply 2nd hand parts but if needed rods, pistons, cams, springs etc to build a ecent spec XE let me know and ill see what i cold do for you.
oh ill remember that :) :thumb:
well, im now £140 lighter...theres a set of R1s on their way to me
i was indecisive about what to go for aswell in the end went for the 45's mainlly because i wanted the old skool feel
was thinking about getting the 1600 dizzy and then sending to h h but now i am wondering would it be worth going for a megajolt instead, do the gains justify the expense?
16v Nova Kev
31-10-10, 01:32 PM
oh ill remember that :) :thumb:
well, im now £140 lighter...theres a set of R1s on their way to me
You could have bought my set for less than that.
You could have bought my set for less than that.
and the winner of the 2010 "just to late post" goes to lollol
haha nevermind.
Angus Closier
31-10-10, 02:33 PM
IV got a whole 45s set up for £210 Including dizzy etc. So in that respect its not much diff price wise to a bike carb set up. Phillip we talked ages ago about getting my head done, Il be giving you a pm at some point as I need this done now!
IV got a whole 45s set up for £210 Including dizzy etc. So in that respect its not much diff price wise to a bike carb set up. Phillip we talked ages ago about getting my head done, Il be giving you a pm at some point as I need this done now!
as in you were selling it or you bought it for that?
Angus Closier
31-10-10, 02:40 PM
as in you were selling it or you bought it for that?
Sorry, ste porter just sold it to me. Was in the forsale section for ages...
Was going to stick them on ebay but me thinks il use them now instead of ITB's:thumb:
If you want some bike ITB's iv got some. 50-45mm taper etc etc
i have noticed cheap setups but ive never had the money at the time, and when i get it, they usually sell the day before lol
Angus Closier
31-10-10, 02:48 PM
i have noticed cheap setups but ive never had the money at the time, and when i get it, they usually sell the day before lol
Well I normally have lots of that sort of stuff coming through my hands so I can pm you next time iv got some cheap ones if you like.
i guess im just after the dizzy setup now :) if you ever get them in :thumb:
nova - no worries, just drop me a text or pm.
Angus Closier
31-10-10, 03:11 PM
i guess im just after the dizzy setup now :) if you ever get them in :thumb:
Might be going with magajolt so you may be in luck, pm me in a week or so!:thumb:
Not got your number anymore phillip. Il drop you a pm and sort things out!
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