View Full Version : Bye Bye Ark
"The navy and air force are really being cut back to the bone and I don't think we should forget that" (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11570593)
stupot89
19-10-10, 12:00 PM
so we are go from one of the largest naval forces in the world to nothing well do mr camron you really are a w****r
Not quite nothing, we do have another handful of carriers. But considering we're an island, we do have a pretty dire Navy at the moment.
In fact, I don't even think it counts as a Navy any more. I'm sure due to the size and manpower its should officially be a coastal defence force!
when was the last time it was used in anger?? as it missed the falklands by a couple of years.. i suppose it was in the gulf for desert storm @ the other one... but this nation doesn't really need aircraft carriers, when our land based forces can easily fly from Nato bases all over the developed world..
its like the only reason we keep trident is so we can sit at the grown ups table, and play with them..
so we are go from one of the largest naval forces in the world to nothing well do mr camron you really are a w****r
we haven't been that for 65 years!!! you can't blame this lot for that
but this nation doesn't really need aircraft carriers, when our land based forces can easily fly from Nato bases all over the developed world..
They do allow greater freedom of launch though. And should a particular asian nation decide to steamroll across Europe then they may come in handy
They do allow greater freedom of launch though. And should a particular asian nation decide to steamroll across Europe then they may come in handy
and while they sell gas to western europe & make billions, that ain't gonna happen. we have cyprus, we are an island, we can't get sea harriers to travel very fast or far, and the next leap is away from strike aircraft anyway, its cruise & drones..
Sea Harrier is pretty crap and has been for years. JSF is the way forward; junk typhoon, pull out of funding the F35 and just wait for the yanks to finish it then buy it from them
Watchkeeper is interesting though, but only for reconnaissance. And its not exactly British. Never trust anything technological that hasn't been built by your own country... mind you, even if you could get any UK-built tech it would be rubbish lol Well aside from Apache.
my mates dad worked for GEC marconi. back in the mid eighties. the 'family' open day was amazing, i got to see stuff that is only just out on the market these days, the technology has been there for a long time.....
side note... in the falklands, our top secret communication system that beat the argies was SMS...
tbh the cost of maintaing an ancient ship like ark would be better spent on front line troops and then maybe keep one of the new carrier plans going.
As for JSF, I think its a total farce, as is typhoon.
While Harrier and Tornado might be old as the hills, they are still pretty damn good aircraft, plus what "enemies" are 'we' going to face that would even come close to irritating a spitfire in the sky lol.
Yes if China decide to have a pop at the world, it would be nice to have the latest and greatest toys, but they will simply outnumber us. So the spec of the toys is 100% irrelevant.
who do you think is lending all of the money to china???? the west. thus peace.
who do you think is lending all of the money to china???? the west. thus peace.
Plus alot of their sh1te toys end up on various market stalls and in poundshops over here
made in china has been filling the world for decades ffs... its nothing new that they have been 'stealing' all our money lol
and when they get filthy rich, they buy german luxury cars!!!!
"The navy and air force are really being cut back to the bone and I don't think we should forget that" (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11570593)think of all the scrap metal!!
hmm 20000 tons @ 120/t - cost of stripping all the asbestos out......£5
hmm 20000 tons @ 120/t - cost of stripping all the asbestos out......£5thats a fiver saved, winner!!
and when they get filthy rich, they buy german luxury cars!!!!
to then copy and sell internally for naff all :) thus keeping the money inside china
Word on the inside is its been lined up for scrap for years, but the reason they haven't is because all the cutters are private owned so it actually costs MORE to scrap it than it does to keep it afloat for months on end.
Spoke to their wramadm just a mo ago and he says they spend ages offshore doing pretty much nothing. The had a full chat of apache guys on their a while back for about 4 months... but not one apache on board lol
nice to see our taxes go to defending this once great nation.
oh wait...
What's the point of having a navy anyway ?
All the scum that want to kill us can come and live hear at tax payers expense and plot what they like so no sea defence needed
What's the point of having a navy anyway ?
To prevent the Scottish from overfishing so the Spaniards can come in and steal it all lol
to provide a legitimate career for bumdars lol
why you not in it then stu?
Its supposed to be a cover, and I couldnt keep it covered up
Meh boats are a thing of the past anyway.....
Eine, ve just fly ein bomber fighterghafahren over aus Madamé Queens house ein kaputski in zwei hourghafahren....
Oh yes old boy, we shall set sail post hast & we might land on European shores buy this next millenium! Afternoon tea anyone?
Shouldnt we be a bit concerened by the fact that 25,000 civilian staf will be "axed" too. I know a proportion of that will be natural wastage but from what Ive gathered from Jack, nearly whole departments are disappearing and this is having a knock on affect on the support for frontline troops. Its not going to be the bigwig bosses that go is it, its going to be the middle guys that actually do work!
Shouldnt we be a bit concerened by the fact that 25,000 civilian staf will be "axed" too. I know a proportion of that will be natural wastage but from what Ive gathered from Jack, nearly whole departments are disappearing and this is having a knock on affect on the support for frontline troops. Its not going to be the bigwig bosses that go is it, its going to be the middle guys that actually do work!
there are more people in defence procurement than soldiers, and they are earning more money too! the bloke who owns TOP SHOP, amongst others, actually looked at defence procurement & concluded that the people in charge of it couldn't run a bath, let alone an elite military organisation... they were hugely wasteful & hopeless at containing costs.
the money savings will massively outweigh the benefits costs.
the son of a friend was working in a government dept to do with insuring military stuff. there were several hundred people in this office in london.. the girl at the next desk got a memo asking her to improve her workrate cos she was 3 weeks behind in her work. as he had nothing to do, he offered to help her. 90mins later, she was caught up!!!! he lasted a few weeks & had to leave because it was driving him potty, and he needed to do some work, the military was paying people to piss about all day as long as they looked busy, it was fine.
and they are earning more money too!
That is the funniest thing I've read all year
are you telling me that civvie staff don't earn as much as squaddies??????
when based on all the different salary grades & self serving pay scales they have......
are you telling me that civvie staff don't earn as much as squaddies??????
Yep. Sure, the per hour rate is probably a little more in the favour of the civlians, but lets be honest, military staff don't work 24/7.
Blaming cameron for Labour screw ups? Exactly what i thought would happen.
Blaming cameron for Labour screw ups? Exactly what i thought would happen.
I don't blame cameroon at all, although labour did initiate the review process before the tories got in. Probably knowing they'd be outed and Senator Cameroon would get all the heat for it lol
Mind you, judging by some of the comments I've seen on facebook, people are just spouting utter turd out at whoever seems to be in command!
lol
I saw an interesting program the other day. A guy was trying to put into perspective just how much of a cutback has to be made. He had a massive pile of coins, which was representing the defecit.
'You know all this whooharr about all the benefits cut?' he said. And with that, he removed one coin from the huge pile.
Quite poignant.
Another interesting fact was that if the banks allowed all merchant investments to be taxed, we'd be out of the crap in about 4 months. I wish I was in a position to decide whether or not I should be taxed.
tax them for a year, get us out of the crap and into the black nicely, and then go back to how it was BUT with new efficiencies sorted.
Apparently My department in a 'supplier' to the MoD, is hugely understaffed and we are flooded with work...... erm I have to pretend to look busy 4.5 out of 5 days a week. When I stated I worked at my automotive rate and got a bollocking for being too fast and the customer will expect that all the time so we cant be seen to be fast.... FFS
Choppy choppy choppy. Keep the cuts coming imo. If it means I don't have to may more tax its all good.
my mates in the navy, been in 7years and all he does it sail round the world getting pissed lol
case in point, he recently set sail on a 5month deployment, 13days in was flown home from italy for a 1weeks course, will be back for 3weeks in total then flown back out to emirates. jan12 he will then be flown back to the UK for another course and possibly then flown out again so he can sail home (7days iirc)
i know a bloke who was a submariner. he was posted overseas for more than 6 months a year, thus no income tax......
on another point... rich people.. loads of people complain bitterly about them dodging tax.... they buy lots of stuff, and buy big houses, then extend them, they keep polo ponies, they employ people, they spend money, they contribute tons to the economy
on another point... rich people.. loads of people complain bitterly about them dodging tax.... they buy lots of stuff, and buy big houses, then extend them, they keep polo ponies, they employ people, they spend money, they contribute tons to the economy
Im sure all the people who are losing their homes and struggling to feed their families will sleep much sounder in their beds knowing that Mr Bankers latest tax dodge funded yaught purchace will have generated jobs and income to the economy, especially as it was him who put the country into a double dive in the first place :roll:
Tax should reflect what you earn period.
MattBrown
20-10-10, 07:58 PM
Im sure all the people who are losing their homes and struggling to feed their families will sleep much sounder in their beds knowing that Mr Bankers latest tax dodge funded yaught purchace will have generated jobs and income to the economy, especially as it was him who put the country into a double dive in the first place :roll:
Tax should reflect what you earn period.
So if you try, get a good job, then you work to keep lazy cnuts ho couldnt be bothered?
Nice to hear about all the cuts today, what made me lol was the Labour dicks on their side of parliament moaning about the cuts
It's them that massively overspent in the first place ffs :mad:
The jobs front will soon look better in the new year from Germany and France lifting the ban on skilled only workers, means LOADS of the Polish will be leaving, managers at work are preparing for at least 70% of the agency staff to leave, means friends that are hard working and need a job might actually get a look in.
LMFAO
Heard today that 800 & 801 NAS have apparently simply downed tools, locked up the hangers and all fcuked off from Cottesmore on free leave as they're pissed off at being cut lol
All work on a Harrier program has been dropped to the bottom of the pile, but still being worked on by the graduates as there is a contract so will be paid for regardless lmao
So if you try, get a good job, then you work to keep lazy cnuts ho couldnt be bothered?
If the banks were actually held accountable for the sh1tstorm they have created instead of the burden being layed upon the taxpayer, and if the taxation sytem was actually fair and was a standard percentage of income all the way up, then in my personal opinion, i wouldn't give a toss if some of it was spent on the layabouts so long as it didn't affect me.
Having the taxes i've paid used to bail out the banks to recover my money, so the fat cats can earn more money only to aviod paying a large chunk of tax on their own wages, not forgetting the fact I now have to forward more of my money to get the county out of the smeg, annoys me a lot more that a family of mouth breathers tbh.
Not to mention the fact now its getting almost impossible to get as mortgage. In case of deferral? Err, The bank that is refusing you a mortgage lost all your money, and you used your money to bail them out, and now they won't let you borrow your money? I mean, surely stuff like this wouldn't be allowed to happen unless the banks themselves actually ran the country?
Look at clegg and all his shiney policies before the election. Guaranteed that on the day of his promotion to deputy, someone appeared from the background, someone nobody knows, someone nobody voted for, and presented him with a massive wadge of cash to not rock the boat. Same goes for everyone in power. Puppets on strings.
Look at the expenses scandal. Yes, there was some embarrassment for the culprits for a few weeks, but what came of it? Has anything been done to stop stuff like that ever happening again? Were the politicians in question fired? I wonder how much money was fired around to lay a nice big blanket on the fire?
Who is actually running the country anyway? It certainly wont be anyone anybody voted for, i can tell you that much, and I can also tell you it won't be a politician either. It will either be someone from Goldman Sachs, or someone in the jewish community.
lee - you put everything i want to say into actual typed words.
money talks.
the politicians/'puppet masters' are playing the public very easily, the working man/average newspaper reader is thick as they come. throw a few 'OMGZZZZZ taxes to rise, people to die, doley scum, immigrant this, pikey that' and people inadvertatntly become brainwashed meaning important legistation gets pushed through on the quiet.
i would happily take a paycut/pay more tax etc etc if i truly belived it would help this country out of the ****ing mess we are in and mean that in 2/3 years id see a 'thank you' or see that i made a difference but unfortuantly im a minority
the reason we won the world wars/owned 3/4 of the world was because everyone knrew there place in the pecking order and either acceted it or made a real difference and changed it
bring back the olden days before its to late imhdo
the working man/average newspaper reader is thick as they come. throw a few 'OMGZZZZZ taxes to rise, people to die, doley scum, immigrant this, pikey that' and people inadvertatntly become brainwashed meaning important legistation gets pushed through on the quiet.
Exactly that. Now is the time to scrutinize government and see what other bills they're passing on the sly whilst everyone is shouting about the SDSR and all that jazz.
Look at the expenses scandal. Yes, there was some embarrassment for the culprits for a few weeks, but what came of it? Has anything been done to stop stuff like that ever happening again?
Yes, actually. But unfortunately, as per the norm, the rules were tightened for the little guys in the civil service, whilst the seniors still trample all over them. At least now they are actually breaking the rules rather than bending them!
Were the politicians in question fired?
A number of them resigned. But again, if it was anyone at my level, then bam - instant dismissal, no questions asked, if you fiddle finances. The problem is/was that technically they weren't breaking the rules, as they were so badly written (on purpose or not, thats up to you to decide brothers) that you could easily re-interpret them. Joe Public is allowed to see what those rules are, its just that none of us really cared to look until the papers decided to upset the apple cart. Even now, how many of you have reviewed the rules on what ministers can and can't claim? Aside from what recycled jibberish the Sun has mangled up for you. Go ahead, you're perfectly entitled to see them as its YOUR money they're claiming.
[edit] I do strongly agree that the banks have had it easy. Would any other business that got into financial difficulty get free handouts from the government (aside from those who they rely on for big contracts)? No. The problem comes down to social responsibility again though, and unfortunately the buck stops with the government - imagine how many people would now be homeless without a penny to their name after their 3 bed semi and £50k savings had all disappeared overnight. Mind you, if houses got reposessed, the administrators would need to then sell them again to recover funds to square the books... so not only would you lose your house and all your money, you'd then have to re-buy your house, which probably means reapplying for a mortgage from another bank, who have to then find the money to secure your investment from somewhere, with limited resources that puts them under pressure... ad infinitum. Now we start getting revolutionary over the whole money-on-paper thing, where we realise everyone puts too much value on bricks and mortar.
Heck, as I haven't bought a house yet, I'm looking forward to the time when everyone gets evicted from their homes and I can buy a 3 bed semi for 20,000 Yuan cash lol
tbh I'd sooner not be a homeowner and just rent with a long term contract (much like the krauts do). "oh my boiler is broken... herro landlord, plz phix"
Its just cash needed to be "hidden" from me as I spend like its water so we purchased a gaff lol.
agree with most points hereing, but ye again our govt got its prioritys wrong and is still sending aid to pakistan and india. why? both have nukes and plenty of cash, yet we prop em up. hell we know pakistan is funding the whackjobs who want to kill us... that money would be better off spent here. the other thing that makes me laugh is the tax situation. you could clear most if not all of our debt by getting the big businesses that evade tax to pay up. like vodaphone, who got off a 6billion tax bill this week..... cnuts.
tbh I'd sooner not be a homeowner and just rent with a long term contract (much like the krauts do). "oh my boiler is broken... herro landlord, plz phix"
Its just cash needed to be "hidden" from me as I spend like its water so we purchased a gaff lol.
ive no desire to own my own house atm, might change if/when i grow up but im not spending a year sitting in twidlling my thumbs to save 10k for a deposit for a house that will take up most of my income etc
life is for living not worrying about interest rates etc
interest rates are the least of the pains tbh.... as we fix for long terms and therefore dont care.
having to fix things when they break etc is the gaylord of it all
tbh I'd sooner not be a homeowner and just rent with a long term contract (much like the krauts do). "oh my boiler is broken... herro landlord, plz phix"
Thats all well and good, but what happens when you hit retirement and your measely pension doesn't cover the rent? Plus there's always the threat the landlord could turf you out anytime
IMO its a case of work to buy the house - once you hit close to retirement age you should have pretty much paid the mortgage off so you can spend you retirement living there without paying much other than the rates. Then when you're old(er) you can downsize as required slicing the profit off each jump, and ifnally use the proceeds to fund a retirement home or whatever else you may require.
Thats the theory anyway...!
/\ practice is far different. my grandfather had to be in a specialist home for his last 2 years as he had altzheimers. for 2 years care, in a home that was at the bottom end of the scale, he paid £85,000. the value of his house. when he died his home paid that and no more. he'd paid the mortgage off 25 years previously. all his life for fook all.
also, part of a statement from the pcs union:
there is a clear alternative to the cuts – starting with collecting the £123 billion of uncollected and avoided taxes, cutting out the real waste in public services such as the use of overpaid private consultants or from the outsourcing of our work to the private sector who profit from delivering public services.
this is the thing that annoys me, how come the chancellor has ignored this fact? why not put funds into hmrc, and get it back?
there is a clear alternative to the cuts – starting with collecting the £123 billion of uncollected and avoided taxes, cutting out the real waste in public services such as the use of overpaid private consultants or from the outsourcing of our work to the private sector who profit from delivering public services.
Just thought I'd highlight two points there that people may wish to raise FOI requests about ;)
....oh things get better as well. Well we all know Ark is being scrapped, but the captain on board only found out by reading it on the BBC news website!
Just thought I'd highlight two points there that people may wish to raise FOI requests about ;)
....oh things get better as well. Well we all know Ark is being scrapped, but the captain on board only found out by reading it on the BBC news website!
whats FOI? and epic fail on the captain not knowing....
"mr captain, teh beeb says were off for scrap..."
"what?!?!?! nonsense!! oh wait, news 24 has it on. balls"
/gets coat/
It was more a case of them not bothering to tell him!
FOI = freedom of information. Should be able to invoke that to ask how much the govt is spending on consultants
nice. i have serious issues with most of gideons budget. i honetsly feel it will be 20 years of **** for this country.
An labour had a better 'solution' ? lol
The private sector need to be involved at some point otherwise the whole country will become public sector if the govt just buy the nessecaray suppliers to do the work. Its nore that the govt shouldnt be the sole customer to some suppliers and therefore make the prices more sensible
no labour were relying on stupidity and false hopes. wannkers...
outsourcing is a terrible thing.... the local council outsourced their bin service.... then decided to try & take it back in house when the tender was up.....
the council worked out they could lease new vehicles and run the contract for £250k than the next cheapest.....cue fanfare, headlines in local paper about cost savings etc...... then they got the contract sorted out & found they'd forgotten the fleet insurance.... cost £300k....
Its only terrible when it goes to the wrong people lol....
I know a few projects that are outsourced and the 'good' company running them actually save millions compared to the 'bad' company that run them... but the 'bad' company is about 50% cheaper so in the cash is king setup now they are back in the game.
here is a quick bit of economics- claim back the £6bn Vodafone owe, cancel the Olympics- saving £13bn, (that's £19bn) get the tax owed by the other major tax dodgers- multi nationals and rich contributors to the Tory party ( you know like the one that dodged a tax bill of £248m by giving it to his wife), suspend all over-seas aid for 4 years and the UK will save and recoup £30bn in an instant. And, NO jobs lost.
Like I said the uk is heading for a big hole or a revolution. I prefer the latter.
so all the construction project workers on the olympic site don't count?
if all the council house rent arrears were paid up, it would look a load better...
not just the site workers Mike...
I guess that if Voda had to pay up they might just walk from the UK, meaning all of swindon is made jobless etc lol.
you mean all the foreign workers building it? agree on council houses.
You the BNP rep for Hull then lol
not just the site workers Mike...
I guess that if Voda had to pay up they might just walk from the UK, meaning all of swindon is made jobless etc lol.
not really, the uk is too profitable to lose the businees from bad pr. i bet if it was the usa theyd have been made to pay....
You the BNP rep for Hull then lol
nope, its a known fact 78% of workers on it are from outside the uk....
as for bnp, im not a nazi scum moron. im a socialist, and that doesnt mean labour....
/\ considering that until the age of the jcb, half of the working population of ireland were employed over here digging trenches, and there is an allegation that some of the IRA bombs (ie. canary wharf) that occured smack bang in the middle of the last building recession were to keep irishmen working.......
and if UK folks wanted to do the work, the 78% wouldnt be here ;) plus I'd wagers most of them are paying tax and Ni so loads of the cash is staying in the UK... granted a lot will go to far off lands but we still get a take.
Plus its little different to me spending a fortune on tat from Ebay china.
one of our drivers is polish. he wants to be here, he works hard & pays his taxes, he is paid exactly the same as all the others. there is no work in poland, it is a catholic country, so there is a huge younger generation, and he wants to work, and a lot of our customers actually ask for him.
he sends no money home. thus he is as good as british.
A chap I used to work with was buying most of Polands flats up with all his money from a great engineering job.... he then sold them all and purcahsed a sodding great house here lol. Think he said overall the £400K house actually only cost him £100K with the way his 'investments' went :)
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