View Full Version : v8 v 4wd?!
novaboy1981
21-09-10, 08:14 PM
Ok guys, its been a looooong time since I was last here but Im now about to spark random debate of the day......
I came across a great build thread over on retrorides of a chevette using a rover v8 and it got me thinking of a project Ive always fancied using a nova coupe as a base.
Ive really wanted to give a 4wd a go and having looked at the great work of ste porter over the last couple of days it looks like it really is feasible, so good times.
Ive also been looking at a few of the v6 projects on here which also turn out to be feasible, but nobody has gone as far as a v8, I suspect for good reason!
My initial thoughts were to scavenge running gear from a knackered old landy or disco but seeing the size of the transfer boxes etc I dont think there is a hope in hell of squeezing them in.
I like the idea of using the cav/calli running gear as it seems quite compatible with the nova shell, but then it seems as though that restricts you to a LET or XE for power.
Ideally a v8 would be mounted longitudinally but does anyone here think it could be done transverse and hooked up to an F28 box? Cant be much wider than an inline 4 can it?
Discuss!
Pistol Pete
21-09-10, 08:16 PM
So you want to use a Nova as a base? lol V6's are enough of a squeeze. And i'm sure Jack will agree, they are a hedge/ditch magnet!!
craig green
21-09-10, 08:18 PM
Anything is possible but you have to question how driveable the end product would be.
You ever seen that Top Gear episode when they tuned & fettled a Renault Avantime? Slicks, coilovers, big brakes & engine tune up all made it slower. The same is true for many mods on a Nova. It might sound or look quicker, but is it actually quicker given the psychological effect of spending thousands & believing it is.
I reckon a sorted 1600 8v would be quicker point to point than what you have in mind.
You could just build a trailer ornament with a V8 & rear diff & be happy with that!
mk1nova1.8
21-09-10, 08:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjrgAp82ENc&feature=related
mk1nova1.8
21-09-10, 08:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRRn6q549Ik&feature=related
if you can fit a v8 in the front of a mini you can in a nova. be prepared to space frame it though
mmmm rover V8..... possibly the biggest waste of space of an engine ever (in most forms lol)
Yes its light, but its so so so so underpowered there is little to no point chucking one in.
an audi lump would be good :)
As already said anything is possible depending on how much time and effort you want to chuck into it.
dj_wudgey
21-09-10, 09:12 PM
if you can fit a v8 in the front of a mini you can in a nova. be prepared to space frame it though
was going to say that and it would be nice to see one done!!
well seeing there is a 4x4 under construction my vote goes to v8 or maybe v10 :)
or if your pockets are big enough go for a w12 :)
hendrix
21-09-10, 09:26 PM
didn't phil sutton start a v8 nova project years ago?
craig green
21-09-10, 09:32 PM
didn't phil sutton start a v8 nova project years ago?
What an engine in a stand, a bare shell & bunch of grinding discs. Start a thread & get to page 2 then slope off without a trace..
Not aimed at Phil, but thats not a project or even the beginnings of one.
iirc he actually got it in, but no where near runable
dj_wudgey
21-09-10, 09:42 PM
What an engine in a stand, a bare shell & bunch of grinding discs. Start a thread & get to page 2 then slope off without a trace..
Not aimed at Phil, but thats not a project or even the beginnings of one.
i remeber this shame he didnt carry on with it!! but it would be good to see some one build one with a charged v8 lol
Southie
21-09-10, 09:48 PM
Get a V8 4x4 Nova made then we'll be having a better discussion lol
craig green
21-09-10, 10:19 PM
iirc he actually got it in, but no where near runable
I never saw it tbh, but IMO these things are just crazy ideas for the sake of doing things.
Come on, a V8 Nova is going to be sh*t. For the sake of hoards of people beating themselves off at the sight of its bonnet being raised & a few raised eyebrows because of the noise, It's just a no-brainer.
Austins RWD Nova is so much more sensible, it just needs to lose some weight. That with a Honda S2000 lump & weighing a lot less would be an all round better project.
4wd yes V8 No
if you use a proper V8 then you would need traction control and all the gubbins that goes with that, IMO the cost of that would spiral out of control and at the end of the day not worth the effort
paul james
21-09-10, 11:17 PM
You ever seen that Top Gear episode when they tuned & fettled a Renault Avantime? Slicks, coilovers, big brakes & engine tune up all made it slower. The same is true for many mods on a Nova. It might sound or look quicker, but is it actually quicker given the psychological effect of spending thousands & believing it is.
That wasn't done very well though, they didn't strip any weight off it, or do any engine modifications. Spent money in the wrong places to get noticeable speed improvements. Guess the aim was to show that purpose built sports cars are better, and of course they would think that all being rich tv presenters and getting to drove expensive cars all day, no interest in modified cars.
Anyay, V8 is too much for a nova. If I was rich, I'd have a spaceframed RWD supercharged V6 Nova built for me :d
more cylinders the better isnt it jack?? lol
Interesting thread lolnot really, if it was someone like ste starting it then at least it would stand half a chance of being done
Yep. I don't expect it to be drivable at all though, but if I wanted a drivable Nova I wouldn't have put in a V6 in the first place lol
[edit] Burgo, its just time and money :d
so then any W12 gen ?? haha
Yep. I don't expect it to be drivable at all though, but if I wanted a drivable Nova I wouldn't have put in a V6 in the first place lol
[edit] Burgo, its just time and money :djust the money needed here :(
Anything is possible but you have to question how driveable the end product would be.
You ever seen that Top Gear episode when they tuned & fettled a Renault Avantime? Slicks, coilovers, big brakes & engine tune up all made it slower. The same is true for many mods on a Nova. It might sound or look quicker, but is it actually quicker given the psychological effect of spending thousands & believing it is.
I reckon a sorted 1600 8v would be quicker point to point than what you have in mind.
You could just build a trailer ornament with a V8 & rear diff & be happy with that! just watched that episode of top gear on youtube i want that avantime
Not 4wd, nor a Nova but meh!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGxR7aUXv14&feature=related
easiest way? buy an evo and a 4dr saloon, cut and weld. as for fwd v8, the rover motor will bolt to a 820 gearbox iirc, thus giving fwd. but as stuhas said the rover v8 is a fukking boat anchor type p.o.s.
im my ideal world, id be looking for an ls2, tremec t56, sierra cossie rear end and a **** load of tubing, and a 4dr shell. job done. or buy a westfiled seight and build a grp nova body and sillouhette racer it.
subaru donor... or sierra 4x4 with an adaptor to fit an xe or v6 if you insist on gm engine...
avoid a rover v8 like the plague, how about a bmw v8 & 4x4 box mounted in the back driving both axles... think group B
avoid a rover v8 like the plague, how about a bmw v8 & 4x4 box mounted in the back driving both axles... think group B
also think nissan GTR ;)
mmm or if your mental, celica gt4 setup under a 2 dr?
/looks at jack/
LEWI007
22-09-10, 11:49 AM
chop a scooby up and weld a nova saloon over the top of it.
That would look and sound class
how cheap is a bodily fubar'd scoob?
novaboy1981
22-09-10, 11:53 AM
Wow, a lot of useful response already.
I completely agree with most of the points raised here.....the rover v8 as standard is woefully underpowered and a well fettled XE will kill it all day. Its lightness is definitely its advantage over other v8s, just how to get more power out of it cost effectively is the issue.
I do think spaceframing would be a good idea as ste has demonstrated, either building a frame externally from scratch or gradually cutting away the original floorpan and stitching in the frame as you go, not sure what would be best.
I guess this would be more an excercise in engineering than something to rival the best built 2wd 4pots, but it would be good to refine it down so the driving experience was worthwhile rather than creating an undriveable and expensive monster.
BMW v8 could be interesting, will have to do some research into weights and compatibility with 4x4 boxes.....just remembered the old 5-series iX versions were 4x4 werent they, that could be an avenue worth considering. Also Im sure Ford had some v8s but the last one I saw was a 5 litre job out of a thunderbird!
And yes Burgo this thread would be a lot more interesting if the project had started, lets face it, like a lot of these unusual ideas, theres a pretty high chance that it'll die a death long before any novas get harmed! In the meantime keep the great input coming and we'll see where it gets us.
if it was me, and i wanted a cheap rwd nova, go get an e30 325 or 320, buy a later 328 24v engine, fit it to the e30, and cut it all into an nova. cheap fast rwd fun.
my daydream is still to mid mount a v6 driving the rear end, oh, and rip the roof off, michalak style.. but i won't be ripping a good one apart to make it though.
mmm or if your mental, celica gt4 setup under a 2 dr?
/looks at jack/
No chance a 3SGTE would fit in a Nova engine bay.
Impreza would need a fair bit of work, the wheelbase and track is way off a Nova iirc.
Lee and moi have looked into a V8, got some plans, as said its just time and cash really.
steviegsi
22-09-10, 08:34 PM
Mount one in the rear as per a 6r4 metro. Hope your handy with a welder though!
Lee and moi have looked into a V8, got some plans, as said its just time and cash really.
Oui oui.
The V8 will be a phase two anyway. Hopefully my build will give us some insights into the easiest way to do it. I want to start it in the new year, obviously thats money dependant but to be fair I dont need much spare capital to get a rolling shell ready for an engine. The annoying thing is, I have NO spare capital at the moment lol
here have some capital
DSFGSDFHGKHRIOSVNSVEGFIWANGIOASNVVNSDLVNKS
lol
flol, repped/\
edit: i must spread my sloth-love around :cry:
novaboy1981
24-09-10, 12:14 AM
BMW running gear looks like a no-go, they did a 325iX and a 525iX which were inline 6s, but the front diff was actually bolted to the sump and one of the driveshafts runs through the sump itself.
Not only that but the gearbox is unique and there are some expensive torque distribution pipes that can fail quite readily.
Audi has been suggested as another cheap source of 4wd and v8 so Im looking at old 100s and coupes to see how they are bolted together.
lol audi 4wd, you would need the engine infront of the headlights, old audi's suffered a serious flaw ( the group B cars suffered aswell) the design of the gearbox to power the 4wd means the engine has to sit soooo far forward it hurt the handling badly,
The XR4X4 and cosworth 4X4 system is out the window for the same reason as the BMW, half shaft through the sump.
start looking at jap stuff, daihatsu, rav4 shogun, or even frontera/isuzu... at least the gm engine will fit.
rav 4 boxes are fukking huge....
so in short, as usual this thread is utter turd and the project wont start, no one will get a V8 in a nova (bar possibly limpo but thats a long shot too, sorry hun).
Mr Porter will probalby be the only one to ever make a 'decent' 4wd nova and even then the 'gains' from it are 100% outweighed by the weight lol
face facts, in a north south installation, there simply isn't enough room to stick a big engine in the front of a nova.
the only way to do it is to spaceframe the git, and use a grp shell. sillouhette racer style.
novaboy1981
24-09-10, 01:12 PM
Stuart, in essence you are correct. There is never any point coming in full of bravado and claiming anything is possible when it patently isnt!
I was hoping for this to be a sounding board for ideas and it has proved to be such, there is some interesting stuff on here even though ultimately it tells us what we already knew....
Its always good to think about things outside the box and get some debate going. Ok so a v8 4wd Nova just isnt workable but if our thoughts here inspire someone to take on (and maybe even complete!) a unique project then we are all the better for it.
look at the monterey v6 petrol... that would be one hell of a donor for a 6r4 type nova..... they used the engine as the basis for the DTM calibra.
There have been lots of sounding board threads on the same subject lol.
Mr burton has made a vaux V6 4WD beast... its his pug rally car. Simply slip a nova shell ontop and voila, job done and dusted.
face facts, in a north south installation, there simply isn't enough room to stick a big engine in the front of a nova.
There lies the main problem. Once you've fitted a V8 longditudinally (far enough back so the car wont 'endo' under braking, which will mean a whole new firewall which will encroach into the cabin), and mounted it to a gearbox that is large enough to take the torque, your gearstick will most probably end up so far back it will be easier to change gear from the back seat. (especially with BMW running gear as so many people have mentioned. With a straight six engaged to a getrag you may as well attach the prop directly to the diff lol)
There IS doner kit out there that can bring your transmission length down (i have looked) but its still a squeeze.
Definately not impossible though.
auto box??? hot rod stylee
fook it im of to the scrappy with a tape measure tomorrow, i shal report back.
also, short eng and trans and big power, rx-7 f3ds motor and box.... :D
MattBrown
24-09-10, 02:50 PM
There have been lots of sounding board threads on the same subject lol.
Mr burton has made a vaux V6 4WD beast... its his pug rally car. Simply slip a nova shell ontop and voila, job done and dusted.
I always belived it was a Ford V6 from a german saloon race car?
basically a cosworth v6. probably a bored out super tourer engine.
fook it im of to the scrappy with a tape measure tomorrow, i shal report back.
also, short eng and trans and big power, rx-7 f3ds motor and box.... :D
I wouldn't go near the old RX7's rotary lump, but thats just me.
they aint that bad. we shall see.
i bet even you couldn't get one to throw a rod though.....
i bet even you couldn't get one to throw a rod though.....
I bet I could do something catastrophic to it reasonably easily. The apex seals are made of cheese as it is.
10 to 1 says if I had it I could make the rotor break free of the casing and fook off down the road on its own lol
I'd rather keep the RX-7 engine IN the RX-7! Lovely looking car, its like a man's Miata lol
i watched a 4 rotor mazda win at leMans in 91.. i guarantee you will never hear a noise like that coming from another engine that was still running..it sounded evil... lap after lap.
BRoadGhost
24-09-10, 05:04 PM
"You ever seen that Top Gear episode when they tuned & fettled a Renault Avantime? Slicks, coilovers, big brakes & engine tune up all made it slower. The same is true for many mods on a Nova. It might sound or look quicker, but is it actually quicker given the psychological effect of spending thousands & believing it is.
I reckon a sorted 1600 8v would be quicker point to point than what you have in mind."
Craig Green are you high or something? That episode of top gear proved how ever many seconds a lap they were faster than OE. Also you show me the exact same nova i.e one like mine with a 200BHP xe engine do a lap at any circuit then transplant it for a 120BHP 1600 8v & tell me I'm imagining going faster. Never heard such non sense.
the top gear thing was simple.....it was a full blown pop at the thousands of kids who get given their mums old runabout & then lower it, kit it, tune it & think its cool.....they had an agenda, as usual, to ensure the result they wanted, which was to ridicule tuning an old family car with bolt on bits.
racy tyres,suspension & brakes would have made it go way faster, but not round their track........funny that
That episode of top gear was a farce. They spent most of the budget on massive brakes when there is only one real hard braking zone on the whole track. A nice big bottle of Nitrous and some sticky tyres would have had that thing going like the clappers.
I'd rather keep the RX-7 engine IN the RX-7! Lovely looking car, its like a man's Miata lol
Mike likes this.
By the way, I dont know if you know but FD3 motors aint cheap.
RE: the top gear thing, methinks their original intention was to "prove" that modifying was a waste of time with minimal gain. When they then realised that actually the times on the Renault plummeted they had to try a different angle, so made it look sh!t against an Evo. Which isn't hard, any monkey could do that (but on TG it took three monkies to do it lol)
BRoadGhost
24-09-10, 06:00 PM
Guys do you even remember exactly what is was they did to that renault? Proper track tyres, bigger wheels, brakes, weight savings, some front aero…
It WAS like 12 seconds a lap faster than OE, but they deemed it a complete waste of money because it "wasn't quicker than an evo" ~ The fact that they only got the aging engine back up to stock power with James May stating "anymore & the gearbox will blow" has to be one of the biggest mockeries they've ever made.
No reason what so ever why they couldn't have got another 65BHP from the engine giving it around 270BHP THEN it would have been lap time bashing.
It's all constructed to give the out come they want and they wanted to throw massive money at some retarded things...
Guys do you even remember exactly what is was they did to that renault? Proper track tyres, bigger wheels, brakes, weight savings, some front aero…
Yea a do, an it was still **** like
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.