View Full Version : Carbon fibre roof skin
djbrowney
14-09-10, 12:36 PM
I want a carbon fibre roof skin but cant find one anywhere. Does anyone no where i can buy one from cheers browney :thumb:
http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/items-sale/434524-gauging-interest-nova-carbon-fibre-roof-skin-group-buy.html
any use???
Southie
14-09-10, 12:47 PM
He's already replied to it lol
How about getting Mike to have a go. ;)
http://www.performance-trim.com/search.php?category_id=17
see what this company can do.
Danny s-p
14-09-10, 01:50 PM
http://www.performance-trim.com/search.php?category_id=17
see what this company can do.there rip off mate cost way to much
djbrowney
14-09-10, 02:25 PM
http://www.performance-trim.com/search.php?category_id=17
see what this company can do.
they want £2500 just for mould, they can get ****ed !
just cut the roof off, cheaper and lighter than carbon!!
they want £2500 just for mould, they can get ****ed !
they should just buy that sport off ebay... theres tons of mould on that
they want £2500 just for mould, they can get ****ed !
jesus thats harsh.:eek:
thought they would just charge for skin as they can make the money back on the sales of roof skins..
You do know how much time and effort goes into making a mould for a composite item yeah?
time isnt free!
making a decent mould takes loads more time than actually making a decent panel.
i'm still not convinced that a non bendy c/f roof panel will be massively lighter than the cheap tin that gm used....
yes i do as i built huls and ribs in my younger years.:roll:
money grabbing f"ckers...
so the large & much flatter shape won't be more difficult?
Not at all, no.
What's difficult about..
it's a major company with many skilled workers.
They just want to rob people blind.
"Because it's carbon"
MARTIN KELSON
14-09-10, 06:48 PM
Dont know if its quite this simple but could you not use a fibreglass roofskin like this: http://www.mitchellmotorsports.co.uk/vauxhall-nova-fibreglass-roof-skin-975-p.asp
as the mould to get a carbon one made.
Thought you were selling up anyway with the amount of stuff you been selling recently?
Martin
djbrowney
14-09-10, 08:20 PM
yes i do as i built huls and ribs in my younger years.:roll:
money grabbing f"ckers...
same hear buddy, i could do it my self in fibre glass but i want a carbon one !!!
Also the reason i belive £2500 is well over priced !
djbrowney
14-09-10, 08:22 PM
Dont know if its quite this simple but could you not use a fibreglass roofskin like this: http://www.mitchellmotorsports.co.uk/vauxhall-nova-fibreglass-roof-skin-975-p.asp
as the mould to get a carbon one made.
Thought you were selling up anyway with the amount of stuff you been selling recently?
Martin
lol lol lol
erm not quite buddy i still have a shell and a let to build and abuse lol
same hear buddy, i could do it my self in fibre glass but i want a carbon one !!!
Also the reason i belive £2500 is well over priced !
Fibreglass is so so so much easier to lay up, carbon fibre is a ridiculously skilled affair, and if you get it wrong it can result in thousands of pounds of autoclave going bang.
djbrowney
14-09-10, 08:26 PM
Fibreglass is so so so much easier to lay up, carbon fibre is a ridiculously skilled affair, and if you get it wrong it can result in thousands of pounds of autoclave going bang.
hense having only worked with very little i dont really fancy taking it on my self :cry:
Is it actually worth all the hassle tho ?
Doubt it will save that much weight IMO
djbrowney
14-09-10, 08:57 PM
i Want a carbon Roof - simple
lol
Not at all, no.
What's difficult about..
it's a major company with many skilled workers.
They just want to rob people blind.
"Because it's carbon"
go on then, off you go.... make a GOOD 100% perfect carbon roof with NO wobbles in the twill etc, time and cost it.
Simple cover the roof in 3M dinoc carbon vinyl. It looks 95% close enough, costs bugger all and will weigh the same as a puka carbon roof lol.
I know big russ had a kevlar roof but had a roof X in his roll cage etc.
Pistol Pete
14-09-10, 09:02 PM
go on then, off you go.... make a GOOD 100% perfect carbon roof with NO wobbles in the twill etc, time and cost it.
Simple cover the roof in 3M dinoc carbon vinyl. It looks 95% close enough, costs bugger all and will weigh the same as a puka carbon roof lol.
I know big russ had a kevlar roof but had a roof X in his roll cage etc.
Someone posted on here a while ago, covered his bonnet in that. Looked ok IMO.
I've seen a VX covered in it.... looks pretty damn good given the cost vs minimal faff
djbrowney
14-09-10, 09:08 PM
go on then, off you go.... make a GOOD 100% perfect carbon roof with NO wobbles in the twill etc, time and cost it.
Simple cover the roof in 3M dinoc carbon vinyl. It looks 95% close enough, costs bugger all and will weigh the same as a puka carbon roof lol.
I know big russ had a kevlar roof but had a roof X in his roll cage etc.
i think you have the wrong end the stick stu, there not making a mould from carbon are they :tard:
The carbon mould is what costs the money...
Also that 3m stuff is the mutts, I had an offcut from euro SBD that he gave me when I bought my shell, and it looks near enough spot on to dry carbon, and it's mega flexible, it didn't quite manage to go round the back of my phone but then that was a 90 degree 2-3mm radius, it did pretty well!
djbrowney
14-09-10, 09:12 PM
wtf they will make the mould from fibre glass not carbon so dont cost any more than a normal roof skin !!!
wtf they will make the mould from fibre glass not carbon so dont cost any more than a normal roof skin !!!
From what I recall, it's normally a high density foam, covered in various glossing agents etc and a high polished finished so the carbon can be released with minimal use of release agents. It takes a LONG time to produce one, and costs a hell of a lot more in labour than a couple hours laying up fibreglass onto a mould, which by the way would probably be a large majority of the cost of a fibreglass roof skin.
wtf they will make the mould from fibre glass not carbon so dont cost any more than a normal roof skin !!!
point 100% missed.
making the mould is what costs the biggest time/cost... then making a properly good CF part from that also takes a lot of time/effort.
But if it 'cant take long or cost much' have a go yourselves.
I've been making a few small bits in GRP using very simple moulds and funk me its hard, taken ages and had LOTS of waste
djbrowney
14-09-10, 09:19 PM
from what i have done my self before, it is exactly the same process with carbon or fibre glass!
Foam it used to give the mould some structure, not some posh stuff just same **** thats squirted round your walls at home. normally moulded to a few bits of 4 x 2 that came in on a pallet two weeks ago. The hi gloss stuff your talking about is gell coat that is used on all fibre glass moulds and isnt anything differnt that any other process. as the old saying goes bull**** baffels brains !!! They make it sound good so they can charge good money !!!
djbrowney
14-09-10, 09:22 PM
point 100% missed.
making the mould is what costs the biggest time/cost... then making a properly good CF part from that also takes a lot of time/effort.
But if it 'cant take long or cost much' have a go yourselves.
I've been making a few small bits in GRP using very simple moulds and funk me its hard, taken ages and had LOTS of waste
whats the point in me making a mould if i dont have material to make the roof skin or the knowelge to lay the carbon fibre !
djbrowney
14-09-10, 09:25 PM
point 100% missed.
making the mould is what costs the biggest time/cost... then making a properly good CF part from that also takes a lot of time/effort.
But if it 'cant take long or cost much' have a go yourselves.
I've been making a few small bits in GRP using very simple moulds and funk me its hard, taken ages and had LOTS of waste
i dont have a probelm paying £500 for a roof skin. They can have the money tomorrow if they have one. The point im making is that £2500 for make a fibre glass mould of a roof is ****ing ridiculous :thumb:
i dont have a probelm paying £500 for a roof skin. They can have the money tomorrow if they have one. The point im making is that £2500 for make a fibre glass mould of a roof is ****ing ridiculous :thumb:
How much of that 500 do you think is the actual material costs? because the rest is making the mould and laying it up...
P.S give you a clue, carbon fibre is about £20/sq.m iirc
Southie
14-09-10, 09:29 PM
I can see the advantage being that Carbon fibre would be far far stronger than fibreglass, how about getting a Kevlar one to make even more expense lol
djbrowney
14-09-10, 09:31 PM
How much of that 500 do you think is the actual material costs? because the rest is making the mould and laying it up...
P.S give you a clue, carbon fibre is about £20/sq.m iirc
No it not if they charge you £2500 to make the mould !!!
Let say it take's some one a day at £150 a day, 4 square meters £80 resin ect another £100 plus there profit on top and anything else ect ect
How much of that 500 do you think is the actual material costs? because the rest is making the mould and laying it up...
P.S give you a clue, carbon fibre is about £20/sq.m iirc
bear in mind it wont be single skin otherwise its gonna be a floppy unstable mess.
Will be atleast two layers, if not 3 with a bit of CSM in the middle no doubt.
Pukka Epoxy is pretty expensive at £25-30 per Kg.
Crafts mans time isnt free.
Soon adds up
They wont make a mould with some crappy assed expanding foam, some crap timber and bodge it techniques.
A single use mould might just cost you a few hundred, but to make MANY items the mould will have to cost more (but less than single use * many times)
No it not if they charge you £2500 to make the mould !!!
Let say it take's some one a day at £150 a day, 4 square meters £80 resin ect another £100 plus there profit on top and anything else ect ect
A bit steep in your estimate imo, but your estimate states that £170 of the price is making the original mould, lets say you wanna break even on it at 10 units, that's £1700 at least.
I can see the advantage being that Carbon fibre would be far far stronger than fibreglass, how about getting a Kevlar one to make even more expense lol
Kevlar (aramid) is cheaper per sqM than carbon ;)
I prefer Kevlar as its epicly abrasion resistant, plus the yellowness looks ace imho.
I doubt there would be much in it strength wise for a CF vs GRP roof... Both will be crapper than the tin on there.
djbrowney
14-09-10, 09:38 PM
A bit steep in your estimate imo, but your estimate states that £170 of the price is making the original mould, lets say you wanna break even on it at 10 units, that's £1700 at least.
best your get your calculator out lol my estimate was £270 bit as stuart just pointed out there would be 2/3 layers so that them makes £160 maybe £240 just on carbon :thumb:
No it not if they charge you £2500 to make the mould !!!
Let say it take's some one a day at £150 a day, 4 square meters £80 resin ect another £100 plus there profit on top and anything else ect ect
£100+80+150 =330, £500-330=£170
My calculator good enough for ya? lol
edit: PS didn't actually need a calculator for that btw.
novaboyopr
14-09-10, 09:42 PM
try carbon mods
they sell these kits aswell for wrapping layer a few and bobs your unclelol
http://www.carbonmods.co.uk/Products/carbon-fibre-bonnet-hood-skinning-wrapping-kit.aspx
djbrowney
14-09-10, 09:44 PM
A bit steep in your estimate imo, but your estimate states that £170 of the price is making the original mould, lets say you wanna break even on it at 10 units, that's £1700 at least.
No your said ^170 up there lol
£100+80+150 =330, £500-330=£170
My calculator good enough for ya? lol
edit: PS didn't actually need a calculator for that btw.
170 made a little more obvious for you.
Southie
14-09-10, 09:49 PM
mmm Kevlar Novas, is this the new rat look lol
djbrowney
14-09-10, 09:59 PM
170 made a little more obvious for you.
ok no need to get the hump !!!
I now see what your on about, if this was correct how does it justfy the £2500 so make the mould to start with :eek:
But as staurt stated the cost is more that i added up so it's probaly not correct anyway :thumb:
MARTIN KELSON
14-09-10, 10:00 PM
What about these:
http://www.carbondelight.co.uk/index.html
Looks like they specialise in Ford, but i suppose they would make anything if you asked!
ok no need to get the hump !!!
I now see what your on about, if this was correct how does it justfy the £2500 so make the mould to start with :eek:
But as staurt stated the cost is more that i added up so it's probaly not correct anyway :thumb:
No hump here, a nova is about 95cm pillar to pillar iirc, so personally I reckon it'd be 4*20 for a double ply, £35 as stu said for epoxy, personally I can't see more than a kilo of it going into a roof but I've only played with pre preg tbh, and £120 or so labour, (6 hours at £20/hr I make that, yes carbon fibre lay up is skilled and it pays well if you have those skills) so I make that £235, 235-500 = 265, break even in 10 is £2650. Like I say your estimate was a tad ambitious imo, but even that works out at £1700.
and as I said, making a one off mould is cheap.... making a mould that can cope with 10 uses would be a LOT, and given the effort is still there, you might aswell go for the more durable mould to recoup costs better.
paul james
14-09-10, 10:42 PM
Perhaps they know that not many people are likely to buy a carbon fibre roof for a nova. And so charge a lot for the mould, because they consider it a one off sale.
Lets face it theres no real reason to have a carbon fibre roof other than it sounds cool (or the current roof is massively dented). There can't be that much of a weight difference between metal and carbon for a roof, and theres plenty of other parts of the car that can be easily and relatively cheaply stripped of weight/replaced with light items first.
Perhaps they know that not many people are likely to buy a carbon fibre roof for a nova. And so charge a lot for the mould, because they consider it a one off sale.
Lets face it theres no real reason to have a carbon fibre roof other than it sounds cool (or the current roof is massively dented). There can't be that much of a weight difference between metal and carbon for a roof, and theres plenty of other parts of the car that can be stripped of weight/replaced with light items first.
They're charging for the entire mould, as unless you get a group buy of 10 together, they are taking a risk, so they assume they will sell no more after making that mould to cover themselves. Like you say they consider it a one off sale (but build a good quality reusable mould in case it is wanted in future)
stop being a tart, make yourself a carbon one to save the weight and they paint it to hide the twill being wonky, your car is only being built for a purpose after all
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