View Full Version : Opinions on Cavalier internal shift
mk1nova_rich
22-08-10, 11:19 PM
Is it worth doing for any other reason than exhaust clearance? I have seen the article but just after peoples opinions on how effectively it functions and if it is worth the hassle of fitting?
Sharpens up a sloppy standard setup.
when you say that mark? do you mean standard linkage?
i use an mtec short shift linkage on my nova and think its feels fine?
ive never driven another nova though so cannot comment otherwise
No, personally, even with the short shifts fitted I find the standard unit is like stirring porridge.
feels awesome compared to my old 205 lol
might consider one myself in the future then
It's personal opinion, but I have had/tried the variations.
Nova_Tek
23-08-10, 12:16 AM
Not good if you want an interior/centre console :)
peester
23-08-10, 06:27 AM
im having trouble getting on with the standard nova shifter and a r.j'ed quickshift linkage , also have a big exhaust manifold to go on so im going to swap to internal shifter and see if it helps sort both issues lol
Looking at the quaife shifter as wel as cav..
mk1nova_rich
23-08-10, 06:55 AM
Not got a centre console Tek, its for a road rally car. I was mainly going to do it so i can move the gear lever back as i find its too far forward in std position
The most effective method is to connect the shifter rod, directly to the turret - thats what I did - that way you lose all the plastic cr*p and nylon rubbish that attaches to the rear engine mount...
Most just connect to the nova linkage, so no massive difference imo
I've only had a quick play with my trial fitted F20, rosejointed linkage and internal shifter but it felt loads better than the standard setup. And as you say, you can put it anywhere and just change the length to suit.
The most effective method is to connect the shifter rod, directly to the turret - thats what I did - that way you lose all the plastic cr*p and nylon rubbish that attaches to the rear engine mount...
Most just connect to the nova linkage, so no massive difference imo
gm did that with the mk1 astra, even though it was under the floor, but the change was always precise until the uj rubber wore out.
mk1nova_rich
23-08-10, 09:31 AM
i was also looking at making a version of the Quaife Group A linkage, although i need to check regs for modifications to transmission
The most effective method is to connect the shifter rod, directly to the turret - thats what I did - that way you lose all the plastic cr*p and nylon rubbish that attaches to the rear engine mount...
Most just connect to the nova linkage, so no massive difference imo
Got any details on that will? :thumb:
Got any details on that will? :thumb:
Its basically a Cav one with a U/J welded to the end... You then get the connector thing from the turret from a mark 1 or early mark 2 astra and bolt it up... Feel free to pop over and take a look mate....
mk1nova_rich
23-08-10, 10:38 AM
that sounds interesting Will, any chance of posting a pic?
that sounds interesting Will, any chance of posting a pic?
Not really! lol
I would have to remove it to see it! - I will have a look tonight, see if I can get a pic from the bay...
mk1nova_rich
23-08-10, 04:52 PM
yeh im just after a rough idea of where to position everything so that would be helpful if you can get a pic.
Unless someone has a picture of the Mk1 Astra setup as i havnt seen one before?!
its just a straight rod from the gearstick to shifter box uj, with a clamp adjuster just like the nova.
mk1nova_rich
23-08-10, 05:06 PM
so i would probably need to cut a hole in the bulkhead on the passenger side to make that sort of setup work?
yes, if you are going with an internal shifter
mk1nova_rich
23-08-10, 05:16 PM
cheers, will i need the turret UJ off a Mk1 Astra or will the Nova one be ok?
CP just used a 1/2" UJ from a ratchet set lol
at last!!! a use for a socket uj
any bale string?
Socket UJ = £2 ish
UJ from DT to do the job 'properly' = £30-40!!!!!
uj from industrial transmission supplier £5ish
we did use a couple of steering column uj's for a linkage once & they were fairly cheap. god knows what they were off, the fctor found them at the back of his stores...
mk1nova_rich
23-08-10, 05:24 PM
think i have two socket set UJs lol never ever used them
remember to grind the chrome off first before welding...
I've used mine a fair bit on the vx... but thats a fairly expensive way to justify socket UJ's lol
peester
23-08-10, 05:31 PM
crickey.. is it me or is this uj/mk1 astra/by-pass-linkage-altogether a bit of a best kept secret lol
the nova linkage is terrible, all agreed??? good, the astra one probably would have taken up too much room in the shell of the nova, as it would go onto the footwell... remember these cars were designed lhd first... so for a rhd stripped out conversion, its fine.
Do these pics help? Saved them from someone's WIP quite a while ago (Nova---Chris rings a bell?)
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/InternalShifter1.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/InternalShifter2.JPG
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/InternalShifter3.JPG
peester
23-08-10, 05:39 PM
is all that from a mk1 astra then? ^
mk1nova_rich
23-08-10, 05:39 PM
yeh theyre great Lionel, rep given lol
hmm.. might have a look at that.
my cav internal shifter makes an anoying noise, and it's not hitting the firewall (2cm clearance all around, in every gear)
you could go dead straightish over the rack, but the linkage would look a bit ropey inside the car
mk1nova_rich
23-08-10, 05:47 PM
how do you mean it would look ropey Mowgli?
having a shaft hovering 4" up at one end & 1/2" up at the other in the middle of your passenger footwell would in my opinion, look ropey. unless you boxed it in
mk1nova_rich
23-08-10, 05:55 PM
right i get you, i will probably do it as the above pictures and go below the rack
Thats interesting - but its not the same as mine - its very similar though.
The way I did mine is easier than that - the part that comes from the turret on the box is a 'male' fitment - that one above is female by the looks of things...
(I know what I mean! lol)
mk1nova_rich
24-08-10, 08:51 PM
how much do people usually pay for the cavalier shifter?
yeah that was a CP/Nova--chris special :)
Cav shifters complete, I've had a few from my local scrappy for £7.50-£10
mk1nova_rich
24-08-10, 09:16 PM
im assuming the Cavalier lever is the same as a Nova in having the pivot at the bottom therefore making it no good without modifying it so that the pivot is in the centre of the lever (if this makes sense?)
The most effective method is to connect the shifter rod, directly to the turret - thats what I did - that way you lose all the plastic cr*p and nylon rubbish that attaches to the rear engine mount...
Most just connect to the nova linkage, so no massive difference imo
I always thought this was the whole point, i didn't know people left the Nova gear linkage in till some one on here said.
I thought every one did them straight to the turret.
Will, post some pics!
OK - I will get some tonight, but my camera phone goes mental when the light is poor and all the pics look like a 70's disco
garethcolley
25-08-10, 09:29 PM
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/InternalShifter2.JPG
[/quote]
Is the square bracket required for this setup (where the flange is bolted to) or could you just run a long shifter rod straight to the universal joint? Are any bearings required with this setup or is it simply a plastic/nylon guide?
Thanks
mk1nova_rich
26-08-10, 06:43 PM
its not essential but i would have thought it would help stiffen up the "feel" of the shifter rod. Plastic/rubber guides are adequate but i would have thought a spherical bearing could be used if desired. The shifter rod doesnt rotate all that much in fairness
i reckon the biggest problem would be keeping the main shaft tightly located so the bulkhead seal will work.
mk1nova_rich
26-08-10, 06:59 PM
i think for the bulkhead hole i am going to use a spherical bearing but then use the rubber seal off the original Nova shifter rod over the top of it
there are a few old tractors that had a spherical bearing assy the rear arms adjustment linkage.. are there any tractor breakers near you? or have a look at hgv gear linkages too
mk1nova_rich
26-08-10, 07:06 PM
i was just going to buy a spherical bearing and machine a housing for it to weld into the bulkhead. Then use the Nova seal over the top as it "stretches" for want of a better word :confused: lol
peester
26-08-10, 07:30 PM
i think for the bulkhead hole i am going to use a spherical bearing but then use the rubber seal off the original Nova shifter rod over the top of it
when?
pics too
mk1nova_rich
26-08-10, 07:32 PM
i got my shifter yesterday so hopefully can start work on it this weekend. I will take pics along the way and add them
i have seen what will means, basically the peice on the turret where the pin goes in, you run a straight rod from that to the gear lever.
mk1nova_rich
26-08-10, 08:11 PM
i have seen what will means, basically the peice on the turret where the pin goes in, you run a straight rod from that to the gear lever.
surely it needs a UJ in, the angle is too much to run just a single rod
peester
26-08-10, 08:23 PM
^^ yes it will.. everyones getting very confused with just words on a screen lol
mk1nova_rich
26-08-10, 08:25 PM
agreed, i was hoping Will would share his efforts lol
mk1nova_rich
29-08-10, 05:25 PM
Right i have made a bit of progress, i have removed the Nova gear lever and surround. Sorry for the current state of my Nova lol
http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv57/mk1nova_rich/Mk1%20Proper%20Rebuild/GearLeverHole.jpg
just needs tidying up with the grinder. Im waiting for a new spot weld drill bit so just had to cut away at the metal above the tunnel for now for a bit more access.
http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv57/mk1nova_rich/Mk1%20Proper%20Rebuild/GearLinkagePrototype.jpg
Fitted the gearbox in so i could see the position of the turret in relation to the bulkhead and steering rack etc. Decided to go above the rack due for easier clearance. This meant having the shifter rod higher up than planned but not to worry....
http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv57/mk1nova_rich/Mk1%20Proper%20Rebuild/BulkheadHole.jpg
Drilled it 20mm for the time being until i know what size it needs to be as i can open it up at a later time. You can just see my socket extension popping through the hole
http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv57/mk1nova_rich/Mk1%20Proper%20Rebuild/CavalierShifterBox.jpg
Just did a quick edit on the picture of my shifter box to show you my plans. The box is angled along the top and i am going to trim the bits off the top to leave it flat (ie remove all material in the red box). Not going into too much detail but this will suit my design for the actual gear lever (more on that later)
The bush in the end will be replaced with a spherical bearing allowing the shifter rod to be run at an angle but also parallel to the top of the shifter box which ties in with my gear lever designs. There will be another speherical bearing mounted at the bulkhead hole which will keep a positive feel in the linkage.
The white pin through the middle has been removed as the pivot needs moving from the bottom of the gear lever to the centre.
I am not plating over the hole left by removal of the Nova gear lever as my gear lever will protrude below the profile of the shifter box so clearance is needed underneath. This will be solved by welding the original Nova box underneath (if that makes sense)
http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv57/mk1nova_rich/Mk1%20Proper%20Rebuild/GearLinkagePrototype2.jpg
This is what i have come up with for a linkage so far. I was hoping that just one UJ would be enough but i dont think it will give the movement required so i have chosen to use two. My only worry with using two is that they will try and buckle over each rather than move the selector rod in and out properly. This is another reason for using spherical bearings at the bulkhead and shifter box as they should prevent any sideways play in the shifter rod and hopefully operating the selector rod as it should. As you can see i have retained the original GM universal joint (albeit with the plastic bit flipped round) the cut the bar before the linkage and tapped a socket set universal joint on. This was a nice fit and a tack of weld will be more than good enough to hold it in place. Th extension bar wont be part of the finished linkage, it was just to make it long enough to pass through the bulkhead hole so i could get an idea of how things will line up. This is probably where the adjustment clamp will go.
Thats it for now, any feedback comments or advice are welcome :)
mk1nova_rich
29-08-10, 06:40 PM
looking back at the other pictures, i may see if i can run the linkage i have made under the steering rack to reduce the shifter rod angle between the lever and bulkhead
Thats to high needs to be below the rack for the direct route to the turret!;)
peester
29-08-10, 07:37 PM
meh reading about these linkages gives me headaches now lol..
good pics tho.. hope u find your way lol..
i got sent this as ref. to a mk1 astra gear linkage.. :-s
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/peester/ebey019.jpg
mk1nova_rich
29-08-10, 07:42 PM
yeh i am going to have a tinker about tomorrow and see about routing it under the rack. Thanks for the comments lads
garethcolley
29-08-10, 11:37 PM
Good effort so far Rich, i think i'm going to have to try do this if i keep the Nova. The standard linkage is terrible with the F28 so far.
mk1nova_rich
30-08-10, 12:08 AM
im only on an F10 lol, just wanting to get as much out of the car as possible without spending daft money. I guess the hardest bit of this conversion is biting the bullet of removing the Nova gear lever and metal surround because then there is no easy way of going back :) after that its just trial and error
mk1nova_rich
30-08-10, 10:59 AM
Been out to car this morning for a bit of a tinker to see how things lines up. Firstly i had a look to see if my linkage would go underneath the steering rack to keep the shifter rod lower down inside the car. Sorry picture is not that clear
http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv57/mk1nova_rich/Mk1%20Proper%20Rebuild/UnderRack.jpg
Not really happy with that method to be honest, space is very tight and the linkage i made will probably rub or catch on the gearbox casing, so i am almost definitely going to run over the top of the steering rack.
http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv57/mk1nova_rich/Mk1%20Proper%20Rebuild/StrongBar.jpg
I then sat my strong bar in between the shifter box and the hole i drilled in the bulkhead yesterday to see how it lines up inside by going over the rack. Not as high as i thought it would be actually so i can see this idea staying. I may make a spacer plate to go under the shifter box to decrease the angle though, still a bit undecided on whether im happy with with this yet.
http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv57/mk1nova_rich/Mk1%20Proper%20Rebuild/LiningLinkageUp.jpg
I then went back to the engine bay to take a picture with the linkage and strong bar both in place to see how they line up. They look ok for now, sorry again for too much flash on the picture but hopefully its clear enough to make it out.
Any more comments are welcome, thanks :thumb:
garethcolley
30-08-10, 12:49 PM
I think i would have to go above the rack as the F28 casing is very bulky. Any idea of much you would raise the shifter box by to reduce angle? I think i'd then have a problem with it catching my bucket seats as i have my seat quite far forward.
Might have to call in and have a look at your progress when you come to fitting the spherical bearing, not too sure how to approach that.
GC
mk1nova_rich
30-08-10, 01:36 PM
I think i would have to go above the rack as the F28 casing is very bulky. Any idea of much you would raise the shifter box by to reduce angle? I think i'd then have a problem with it catching my bucket seats as i have my seat quite far forward.
Might have to call in and have a look at your progress when you come to fitting the spherical bearing, not too sure how to approach that.
GC
hoping that i can get a bearing of the right size to press into the shifter box and then going to make some sort of steel flange at work which i can press the bearing into and then weld to the bulkhead.
I was thinking 15-20mm thickness for the spacer, but that will be a last resort if im not happy with the angle and function when everything else is in place
Rich
Cav setup feels no better than the nova one if you keep the standard nova linkage.
Its the linkage where all the play is.
Iainel's nova shifter with a RJ linkage felt awesome when i had a go ages ago.
Cav shifter is not worth it unless you want a large bore straight front exhaust section.
craig green
30-08-10, 09:36 PM
I have an opinion on the internal shifter. The Nova item pivots below the floor which makes the action of the stick feel very long & distant (to describe it). but the internal shifter pivots above the tunnel & the stick or lever feels like it has a much shorter throw because the distance between your hand & pivot is shorter.
Ive heard of folk chopping the stick for a shorter throw
Danny s-p
30-08-10, 09:41 PM
here mine not got to try it out yet tho
http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx20/dannys-p08/nova%20gte%20project/Photo0147.jpg
craig green
30-08-10, 09:41 PM
Its hard to describe, an Astra GTE 8v uses the same system as the Nova, but I've owned 2 Astra GTE 16v's & a Cav GSi. The sensation of the lever pivoting much higher up, with a shorter stick feels way better, not to mention I dare say the whole design is inhenrently better with the inetrnal type.
peester
30-08-10, 09:42 PM
I do need the exhaust space now; with a new btb manifold going on..
I just struggle to fathom the linkage thing.. tho tbh ive had to struggle with getting to it, car on axel stands..
new lockup has pit - maybe this time ill be able to suss it.
If not then i really give up lol.
BRoadGhost
30-08-10, 10:22 PM
The bad news is rich the route means there's too much deflection through the joints & the joints themselves have too much slop in them.
garethcolley
30-08-10, 10:34 PM
I think the direct rod to the selector fork is the best option but for me now its a massive head ache. Gear changes feel crap at the moment on my F28 using internal shifter on modified nova linkage (re welded at different angle).
Im not sure on clearances with F28 so i'd have to go above the rack and raise the shifter surround of the tunnel floor to reduce angle. Plus im not up for drilling holes in the bulkhead with engine, dash and box all in. Nightmare.
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