View Full Version : nascar roll cages
General Baxter
31-07-10, 10:26 PM
must be soild steel bars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UJ5jD6OJiE&feature=related
edit, for something with a v8 in they like to take off a lot lol
Welsh Dan
31-07-10, 10:32 PM
If you go down the outside of turn four, you can hold it!
I love NASCAR for the v8 with a 4 speed manual box touching 200 mph lol
but it's like watching two trucks with speed limiters trying to pass each other on the motorway lol
Nova_Tek
31-07-10, 10:35 PM
A few cars there that started to slide side on and slowly became airbourne.
Amazing how no one was killed in any of those.
Was earnhart killed at a race? I can't remember.
erm, aren't all rollcages solid steel bars? :p
CoolTiger
31-07-10, 11:21 PM
If you go down the outside of turn four, you can hold it!
days of thunder mint film
CoolTiger
31-07-10, 11:21 PM
erm, aren't all rollcages solid steel bars? :p
nope tubed steel
Aha, get what he meant by "solid" now, long day!
MattBrown
31-07-10, 11:27 PM
nope tubed steel
CDS
Cold drawn seamless tubing, as its stronger than solid bar:thumb:
CoolTiger
31-07-10, 11:29 PM
is it steel. yes
is it tubed yes
was i correct yes
CDS
Cold drawn seamless tubing, as its stronger than solid bar:thumb:
Fe45 actually
MattBrown
31-07-10, 11:39 PM
Fe45 actually
Still cds:confused:
saloonwoody
31-07-10, 11:40 PM
there makin a left tuuuurrrrrrrnnnn
Still cds:confused:
Theres actually a difference.
If you want to be pedantic, CDS is mild steel, where as Fe45 has chronium and moly something or other (beneum or deneum?) & bit of carbon, although its mostly iron based. Hence why CDS weights so much compared to Fe45.
Theres actually a difference.
If you want to be pedantic, CDS is mild steel, where as Fe45 has chronium and moly something or other (beneum or deneum?) & bit of carbon, although its mostly iron based. Hence why CDS weights so much compared to Fe45.
Molybdenum, meaning FE45 (otherwise known as T45?) is a Chromoly alloy I assume (I forget the BS no. offhand but did know it at one point as a lot of Simps chassis is due to be made out of it) however CDS actually refers to the method of manufacture, Cold Drawn, Seamless tubing. You can make titanium CDS tube if you want. Cold is also not quite as cold as the name suggests, as anything under 600 degrees C is classed as cold working, and you certainly can't drag it through a die at room temp lol
Mild steel also has carbon in it btw, it's what makes it steel and not iron.
Standard Mild Steel CDS tube weighs so much more because the walls are thicker to get the same strength as Chromoly alloy steel, Chromoly is mentally strong/stiff.
Generally, as a roll cage supplier, CDS refers to mild steel and T45 I assume is FE45, which is Chromoly.
Right over my head as I a thicko lol,
Molybdenum, meaning FE45 (otherwise known as T45?) is a Chromoly alloy I assume (I forget the BS no. offhand but did know it at one point as a lot of Simps chassis is due to be made out of it) however CDS actually refers to the method of manufacture, Cold Drawn, Seamless tubing. You can make titanium CDS tube if you want. Cold is also not quite as cold as the name suggests, as anything under 600 degrees C is classed as cold working, and you certainly can't drag it through a die at room temp lol
Mild steel also has carbon in it btw, it's what makes it steel and not iron.
Standard Mild Steel CDS tube weighs so much more because the walls are thicker to get the same strength as Chromoly alloy steel, Chromoly is mentally strong/stiff.
Generally, as a roll cage supplier, CDS refers to mild steel and T45 I assume is FE45, which is Chromoly.
interesting.
and in essence matt and mike were both right lol
mk1nova_rich
01-08-10, 01:35 PM
Molybdenum, meaning FE45 (otherwise known as T45?) is a Chromoly alloy I assume (I forget the BS no. offhand but did know it at one point as a lot of Simps chassis is due to be made out of it) however CDS actually refers to the method of manufacture, Cold Drawn, Seamless tubing. You can make titanium CDS tube if you want. Cold is also not quite as cold as the name suggests, as anything under 600 degrees C is classed as cold working, and you certainly can't drag it through a die at room temp lol
Mild steel also has carbon in it btw, it's what makes it steel and not iron.
Standard Mild Steel CDS tube weighs so much more because the walls are thicker to get the same strength as Chromoly alloy steel, Chromoly is mentally strong/stiff.
Generally, as a roll cage supplier, CDS refers to mild steel and T45 I assume is FE45, which is Chromoly.
absolutely spot on :thumb:
T45 and Fe45 are different but have very similar properties. T45 is actually a brand name, like kevlar, and there's a few variations on the formula all resulting in fairly similar stuff at vastly different prices but still all CroMoly alloys.
CDS in cages does generally refer to mild steel tube, but as said it's actually the process and all the tube used in cages is seamless for strength.
Matt, stop talking out your backside, tube is stronger than bar how? But you'd have a very difficult time making a cage out of bar!
Baxter, iirc there's something in the region of 6 times more tube in a nascar chassis/cage than in a wrc car so it's pretty comprehensive, hence the strength.
MattBrown
01-08-10, 02:01 PM
T45 and Fe45 are different but have very similar properties. T45 is actually a brand name, like kevlar, and there's a few variations on the formula all resulting in fairly similar stuff at vastly different prices but still all CroMoly alloys.
CDS in cages does generally refer to mild steel tube, but as said it's actually the process and all the tube used in cages is seamless for strength.
Matt, stop talking out your backside, tube is stronger than bar how? But you'd have a very difficult time making a cage out of bar!
Baxter, iirc there's something in the region of 6 times more tube in a nascar chassis/cage than in a wrc car so it's pretty comprehensive, hence the strength.
Tube is stronger than a bar of eqivilant size:confused:
MattBrown
01-08-10, 02:08 PM
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=647567&d=0&nmt=
So yeah, as a cage, its stronger as a tube, not a bar, thanking you:)
Tube is stronger than bar by weight, not by diameter, and depends on a whole lot of other factors, direction of load, type of load, etc etc.
But other than peoples opinions on a forum, please tell me what experience you have in this field?
MattBrown
01-08-10, 02:47 PM
Tube is stronger than bar by weight, not by diameter, and depends on a whole lot of other factors, direction of load, type of load, etc etc.
But other than peoples opinions on a forum, please tell me what experience you have in this field?
Not an amazing amout, like most, I look on the forums, and ask people who I work with, (Engineering)
They all said the same, for the way a cage is loaded, in a frontal impact, the 2 door bars will have a far greater chance of staying streight, as they have twice the surface area or something.
If bar was better, the top boys would have titanium solid cages:confused:
A roll cage is designed to transfer the loads around the entire structure by triangulating it all, which as any engineer will know is the strongest shape when it comes to efficient load transfer. This results in the majority of the loading being in compression and tension, not bending moments.
Now think of it this way, would you rather stand on the top of a 2ltr coke bottle when it's empty or full? Exactly the same principle!
As for Titanium, it's relatively brittle in an impact situation, not to mention ridiculously expensive. And why would we want to use bar when tube's perfectly good at doing the job and weight's a primary consideration? (And I say we because I am one of the top boys)
MattBrown
01-08-10, 04:54 PM
A roll cage is designed to transfer the loads around the entire structure by triangulating it all, which as any engineer will know is the strongest shape when it comes to efficient load transfer. This results in the majority of the loading being in compression and tension, not bending moments.
Now think of it this way, would you rather stand on the top of a 2ltr coke bottle when it's empty or full? Exactly the same principle!
As for Titanium, it's relatively brittle in an impact situation, not to mention ridiculously expensive. And why would we want to use bar when tube's perfectly good at doing the job and weight's a primary consideration? (And I say we because I am one of the top boys)
So, in theory, using a 10mm piece of solid bar, you say, is a strong as a piece of tube, with 5mm walls?
Or have I totally missed your point, as all the cage manufacturers, and yourself, make cages from tube, so, tube is stronger:confused:
no, a 10mm solid bar is stronger than a 10mm od tube. For the same surface area of the profile (i.e the circle), or the same weight of material, then tube is probably going to be stronger, depending on the loading conditions.
Tube isn't stronger, it's stronger relative to weight, which is the important thing
MattBrown
01-08-10, 05:10 PM
Im sure thats what i was getting at lol
Im sure thats what i was getting at lol
Nope you said size, your pedals are on back to front on this one.
Sturge, it was me that mentioned titanium, and only as a random example of CDS tubing, could have been copper, lead, aluminium or cheese... wasn't suggesting it had any merit as a roll cage material :thumb:
I assume Fe45 is a Cromoly (had the spelling wrong before lol) alloy then? I don't recognise the name or even the formatting tbh, must be a standard I'm not familiar with? Or is it another trade name?
Matt asked about using Ti bar too :thumb:
It is a CroMo alloy yeah, the Fe45 means 45% iron. It has very similar properties to T45 which is actually a carbon manganese alloy which is where it gets complicated and explains the pricing differences.
I can't remember exactly the differences but they react a bit different to welding, although welding wires are interchangeable between the 2.
Would need to read up properly on it to fully refresh my memory
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.