View Full Version : x/c16xe inlets etc
have been looking at the replica inlet boxes on the bay, also looking at the s/s 4-1 exhaust manifolds, i know southie recommends these but can anyone tell me a little more about these, or any other similar products? ive heard there are some copies of the mantzel boxes which are poor quality and ive seen a few aftermarket exhaust manifolds and dont know whats best, cheers:thumb:
have been looking at the replica inlet boxes on the bay, also looking at the s/s 4-1 exhaust manifolds, i know southie recommends these but can anyone tell me a little more about these, or any other similar products? ive heard there are some copies of the mantzel boxes which are poor quality and ive seen a few aftermarket exhaust manifolds and dont know whats best, cheers:thumb:
The Mantzel copy boxes are ok if youre on a budget, but not quite as good as a mantzel for quality! Worth the money really.
If youve got a c16xe engine you will need the lower half of the x16xe engines manifold to fit one of the inlet boxes!
Most 4 branch exhaust manifolds also do a good job and are lot better than the standard on. Get one from a reputable manufacturer like BTB, Ashley, or ive just won one for my brother tigra on Ebay by Protec. Stainless steel one for £100 delivered brand new!
craig green
20-07-10, 06:04 PM
Tbh there isnt a great deal of quality in the Mantzel boxes, other than they are cast so wont break at the welds. The oval holes in the base a barely radiused to meet the lower inlet. They are pretty crude on the whole.
The main issue with the copy ones is having the base skimmed so it mounts flush IMO & also when bolted down the structure doesnt crush under the tension. Someone with brains could make a decent job of it but easy to make poorly IMO.
I bought one from a guy on corsa sport
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/lostboy_014/SDC10346.jpg
Aint got it fitted yet as the engine is still in pieces, alot of the lads on corsa sport say this one is good quality and works well, I cant confirm as I aint used it yet but if you need one I aint going to be needing one for a while so may as well sell this.
I paid £138 delivered, PM me with an offer and we'll take it from there, but first nature calls.
whilst were on the subject, anyone got any steel rollers or performance ht leads? cheers
whilst were on the subject, anyone got any steel rollers or performance ht leads? cheers
SBD do the steel cam belt rollers!;)
djbrowney
20-07-10, 09:06 PM
how much are they as im after a set my self ???
Dan Stanley
20-07-10, 11:00 PM
I bought bought the vx racing (i think that was what it was called) off ebay. Its ok, but you have to do a bit of drilling/dremmeling to the throttle body to get it on. you also have to lengthen some sensor wires. I also bought a cheap s/steel 4-1 exhaust manifold off ebay aswell. It looks pretty but the bolt holes didnt line up with the studs on the head. It was a 'mare to fix! Being a 4-1 it habgs stupidly low under the sump aswell. i'd recommend finding a 4-2-1 so theres not 4 pipes going under the sump. With both manifolds on, a pipercross induction kit, after market exhaust system, my X16XE made 10bhp more. :cry:
the down side is that it runs lumpy and hasd some low down hesitations. Im sure the overly long OE inlet system was designed to prevent this.
The upside is that the engine bay is a lot less cramped and its easier to work on.
http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx224/DanStanley/B893YAR/DSC00480.jpg
Hope this helps?
only 10 bhp!? i would expect at least 20 bhp with the mods you have listed there, im going for the same as you but i have a ported and polished head on another engine that spat a conrod out the block, so im going to see if thats not damaged, fit that, some performance silicone HT leads and im also running a kms racing engine management and loom then maybe some steel rollers to deal with the extra power. thanks for help anyway
The powerbox add's around 9/10bhp.
It shifts power up the rev range, so isnt ideal if you have the standard rev limiter.
4-1 exhaust manifold also shifts power up the revs.
So 10bhp from those mod's seems about right.
My x16xe made 127bhp with 4-2-1 manifold, powerbox, and mild kent cams.
gtachorley
20-07-10, 11:33 PM
I had a 1.6 16v with the same type of copy as the one above mine didn't really require any modifications, seemed to make a real difference. What I heard was that when Vauxhall got the engine back it has too much bhp (insurance group problem ect) and so they fitted a ridiculously long intake pipe that goes round the back of the engine to limit it so replacing it makes it rev a lot happier.
I also had one of the SS ebay exhausts with it which helped, blew it up in the end and now I have got a 1.8 16v on bike bodies :)
The guy I bought my inlet off has proven power of just under 140 BHP with his inlet and an exhaust system in a 1.6 16v (X16XE I think) bare in mind every engine is different from standard anyway.
smcgsi16v
21-07-10, 12:10 AM
Mine runs 125bhp with a mantzel and 4-2-1 manifold done at TOTD and they are know for being spot on.
I think some companies rollers are a tad to optermistic.
The powerbox add's around 9/10bhp.
It shifts power up the rev range, so isnt ideal if you have the standard rev limiter.
4-1 exhaust manifold also shifts power up the revs.
So 10bhp from those mod's seems about right.
burgo's x16xe made 127bhp with 4-2-1 manifold, powerbox, and mild kent cams. :p
Dan i would suggest you've got something wrong there, ive never heard of anyone elses running lumpy with the mantzel type inlet, and to only gain 10bhp.
I had a 1.6 16v with the same type of copy as the one above mine didn't really require any modifications, seemed to make a real difference. What I heard was that when Vauxhall got the engine back it has too much bhp (insurance group problem ect) and so they fitted a ridiculously long intake pipe that goes round the back of the engine to limit it so replacing it makes it rev a lot happier.
I also had one of the SS ebay exhausts with it which helped, blew it up in the end and now I have got a 1.8 16v on bike bodies :)
i believe the story is it was making something like 130bhp so they 'de-tuned' it by restricting fook out of it
i have currently got the same exhaust manifold that southie reckomemded
I would not reckomend it if your planning on running your car lowered.
Im on my 3rd one now and its abit battered will be up for sale if i win the one on ebay.
Joe
Vauxhall Restricted the 1.6 16v because it was embarrassing the the bigger 2.0 16v engines in the vectra etc. :thumb:
Ours ran fine when we fitted the mantzel on it, revved better and had no flat spots. Its even better since we added the MBE management and BTB manifold, 2.25 inch exhaust over the years!
I've not really had a good look at these power boxes till now, and frankly, i'm shocked. the original must have been truly awful, if a square ally box with bolts thru the middle flows better.....
if a power box was made in 2 pieces, with short mounting bolts and with a decent attempt at trumpet radiussing the ports on the bottom half, then the top was bolted on afterwards, it would be a massive improvement.
I've not really had a good look at these power boxes till now, and frankly, i'm shocked. the original must have been truly awful, if a square ally box with bolts thru the middle flows better.....
if a power box was made in 2 pieces, with short mounting bolts and with a decent attempt at trumpet radiussing the ports on the bottom half, then the top was bolted on afterwards, it would be a massive improvement.
The original pipe work is awful, goes around the back of the engine, up over the top to heat the inlet air up then into the engine, probably about 4ft long inlet pipe. The boxes massively shorthen this.
It would be better to have it in 2 pieces to have better radiused inlets or trumpets fitted inside. Im making one of my own to do that, but as ever. time / money constraints are taking their toll!lollollol
i can see why throttle bodies with a big plenum produces crazy hp on these engines.
i can see why throttle bodies with a big plenum produces crazy hp on these engines.
Engine management also plays a big role in the introdcution of bhp from the throttle body kits;)
obviously.. i still think people rip factory electronic stuff very quickly, to fit aftermarket kit. with a closed loop system, there is a lot of scope for the stock electronics to cope with alterations. its just a theory, obviously, as i await stu on his white charger (the horse type) to put me right
gtachorley
21-07-10, 12:55 PM
Oh forgot to add you mention the steel rollers you can get from SBD, the standard one is plastic and crap but should be fine if its just a manzel and exhaust, its only really needed for throttle bodies and management when your rev limit is set alot higher.
I had a super chip on mine as well makes no real difference IIRC but does set the rev limit higher so helps the Manzel and exhaust combo.
its only really needed for throttle bodies and management when your rev limit is set alot higher.
Thats not true! The plastic ones can disintigrate on a standard engine. Fitting them to any small block 16v helps cure the problem!
just trying to find a price on sbd site, not as easy as it sounds, there were some on the bay not so long ago, forget how much they went for now.
just trying to find a price on sbd site, not as easy as it sounds, there were some on the bay not so long ago, forget how much they went for now.
You'll need to download the price list of the website ;)
The steel rollers are about £70 iirc!
/\ what are these steel rollers your speaking about?? do i need to buy them and what do they do??
/\ what are these steel rollers your speaking about?? do i need to buy them and what do they do??
The 2 steel cam belt rollers are to replace the plastic ones that the cam belt runs on. Theyre prone to cracking and flying off without warning the steel ones are bearings pressed into the steel roller so it doesnt happen!
ok cool may have to invest in some :)
Hoping to build up the 240BHP sbd kit over a couple years lol from differant places ha ha
ok cool may have to invest in some :)
Hoping to build up the 240BHP sbd kit over a couple years lol from differant places ha ha
You must have DEEP pockets!lollollol
i dont lol hense the couple years will prob become about 15-20 years Ha ha
Unless i get a big win somewhere :p
ive been looking at the sbd exhaust manifolds, does anyone have experience with these and how do they differ from other performance exhaust manifolds on the market, must be something special to justify charging more than double the price of other ones advertised elsewhere? cheers
ive been looking at the sbd exhaust manifolds, does anyone have experience with these and how do they differ from other performance exhaust manifolds on the market, must be something special to justify charging more than double the price of other ones advertised elsewhere? cheers
Ive got one on my nova, very nice manifold, there made by BTB. They are a bigger bore manifold that suits modified engines more which helps to breath better ;)
Southie
21-07-10, 05:17 PM
ive been looking at the sbd exhaust manifolds, does anyone have experience with these and how do they differ from other performance exhaust manifolds on the market, must be something special to justify charging more than double than other ones advertised elsewhere? cheers
I had one I bought brand new for one day and then sold it to my mate (16xe_chris off here) so he could get his rally car running. They're of a very good build quality and have a 3" pipe. Rust very quickly though :(
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7637/image015qr5.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9917/image016ct6.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)
im currently looking at one on the web :)
in desperate need of it tbh lol
Mr5050 i will have a 4-1 stainless manifold from ebay up for grabs if i get the SBD one.
it was £190 Delivered and i will do it for £140 as the bottom 2 pipes have scrapped
[quote=Southie]I had one I bought brand new for one day and then sold it to my mate (16xe_chris off here) so he could get his rally car running. They're of a very good build quality and have a 3" pipe. Rust very quickly though :([quote]
2.5 inch exit
(http://imageshack.us/)
was going to say there 2.5" exit
Link fail aswell GDN
Southie
21-07-10, 05:21 PM
I owned it one day :p I'm always told a half inch is nothing lol
The BTB fanimold is pure sex :)
I have known a few 16v's with inlet boxes on to have a few flat spots, around the 2-3k rpm range.
Yet others are fine.
Oh and this is whats wrong with the standard inlet. Its overall length of about 7foot lol
Add onto this the filter/afm (for c16's) lol
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Nova-crew/Filter1kjkjl.jpg
Southie
21-07-10, 05:34 PM
I have known a few 16v's with inlet boxes on to have a few flat spots, around the 2-3k rpm range.
Yet others are fine.
Mine being one Adam, but the curve goes off the scale in 5th gear :d Still on dodgy rollers though lol
Mine (cough, now BURGO's lol ) was fine, and had a mint power line!
Got the graph somewhere.
Southie
21-07-10, 05:36 PM
Ah so flatspots = 140hp then lol
mine doesnt seem to have any flat spots :)
not had it on the rollers thou prob only putting out 20Bhp lol
adam. i reckon the air gets pissed off on the way with the factory intake..... but at least you can use it as a toy gun..........
even the factory manifold has a nasty bend on it, up to the bit where the 'powerbox' fits.... i can see why the dbilas ones would be a nice option....
Southie
21-07-10, 05:43 PM
mine doesnt seem to have any flat spots :)
not had it on the rollers thou prob only putting out 20Bhp lol
Mine CLICKY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaJ3N31UaMI) ;)
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p379/SOUTHIE01/Picture1-8.png
that one your errrr watching plug belongs to broster who also has some other tasty bits up for sale at the mo, if only i had the dosh
yea it is he had a red corsa ive been told
I was the highest bidder on the dry sump setup and Exhaust but its now out of my price range :( looks like ill be paying £400 odd for it in a couple months :(
im currently looking at one on the web :)
in desperate need of it tbh lol
Mr5050 i will have a 4-1 stainless manifold from ebay up for grabs if i get the SBD one.
it was £190 Delivered and i will do it for £140 as the bottom 2 pipes have scrapped
not if i get the sbd one, someone say bidding war?! lol, defo got my hawkeye on those tb's tho mmmmmmm
Dan Stanley
21-07-10, 08:29 PM
[QUOTE=burgo]:p
Dan i would suggest you've got something wrong there, ive never heard of anyone elses running lumpy with the mantzel type inlet, and to only gain 10bhp.
Ive got a bad valve stem seal, or damamged piston ring on number 4, it gives me comedy clouds of smoke as i let off the throttle on motorways! But it does kinda suit the 'old banger' image of a 25yr old nova! lol
I do kinda get sick of topping up the oil though. :(
I had it rolling roaded at Track and Road which has a very good reputation. Specky's tigra was mapped there as well as a lot of more expensive and exotic machinery.
i think my car would benefit from a cold air feed to the cone filter, or one of those enclosed type filters such as a BMC. Im trying to find the lighter nova gsi flywheel and F13 'box.
well burning oil is never gonna help and if it is dodgy rings then the compression being down would account for the lack of power
Dan Stanley
21-07-10, 10:57 PM
when i was building it, a nut fell down the inlet manifold, through the valve and got crushed in the chamber. :mad:
had to replace the bent valve, but tit may have damaged the valve seat/seal. Or it could have pushed the piston sideways, damaging the piston ring. I was not a happy bunny. :(
I wouldn't attempt fixing either of them two potential problems, so am waiting on my mechanic brother to save the day!
when i was building it, a nut fell down the inlet manifold, through the valve and got crushed in the chamber. :mad:
had to replace the bent valve, but tit may have damaged the valve seat/seal. Or it could have pushed the piston sideways, damaging the piston ring. I was not a happy bunny. :(
I wouldn't attempt fixing either of them two potential problems, so am waiting on my mechanic brother to save the day!
that happened to me but i managed to get it out with one on those handy telescopic magnet pen things, what a toollol lol lol
Here's the inlet for my mrs c16xe nova still yet to fit this But will let you know what its like when it has finally been fitted.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v253/Dayle/IMG_0323.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v253/Dayle/IMG_0322.jpg
Southie
10-08-10, 02:25 PM
/\/\/\/\/\ Is that a Velos unit? I nearly bought one of those off ebay last year, think it went for about £80. Did you get the ecu chip as well?
Have a word with Phazer, he used to own one of those Velos inlets in 2003 CLICKY (http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/other-mechanical-electrical/110428-has-anyone-used-velos-torq-tube.html) ;)
That inlet looks very nice, I wouldn't be letting the misses have that if I were you lol
Dan Stanley
10-08-10, 05:16 PM
when i was building it, a nut fell down the inlet manifold, through the valve and got crushed in the chamber. :mad:
had to replace the bent valve, but tit may have damaged the valve seat/seal. Or it could have pushed the piston sideways, damaging the piston ring. I was not a happy bunny. :(
I wouldn't attempt fixing either of them two potential problems, so am waiting on my mechanic brother to save the day!
Got the engine apart now and it doesnt look good. Ive got a broken valve stem seal and suspicious shiny patch on the piston of the cylinder that had the nut in it. My bro thinks the seal will fix my smokey issue, where as my bro in law says if there is a piston/bore problem then that would cause it to smoke. Like I said in an earlier post, its defo down on power. I need some help to see whether the engine is rescuable and where to go next. Perhaps someone has a X16XE block and head for sale local?? Or does anyone mechanically trained fancy coming down and giving me a 2nd opinion?
Helpppppp! :confused:
Why not replace the valve, put it back together and do a compression test on it ?
Dan Stanley
10-08-10, 05:41 PM
Why not replace the valve, put it back together and do a compression test on it ?
hmm, sounds like an option. Call me stupid if you like, but how much would I need to put back together? At the mo the piston (no 4) is out and head is off. So can I just put piston back in, leaving sump off for now, then put repaired head on with new head bolts and gasket? My mechanic bro is doing the work for me.
Yes it is indeed a velos inlet don't really know much about Velos but done some digging on the net seems some people like their stuff others don't.
I didn't get a chip but the car has a courtney built engine (i don't know what the spec is but somebody off here knows the car and said the engine was built to a high spec) and it certainly revs way past 7k soo im hoping its got something in the ecu.
As for the Mrs, she can drive don't let her catch you saying that lol.
My Thread.
http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148639&highlight=c16xe
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