View Full Version : F23 in a Nova
I'm just doing some research to see if its possible to put this box on a C20LET Nova.
1- Does it mount like a F20 or F28?
2- Do they all have cable linkage, my car has internal and rose jointed linkage, does all that have to come off and be replaced with cable setup?
3- Are they all hydraulic clutch? Can a Nova be adapted to run this or make the box into cable?
4- Which F23 to go for? I've heard that ones that came on a V6 are different.
5- Speedo, how do they work on the F23?
If you have anymore info feel free to post it.
Cheers
As far as i know,
mounts like a f20,
2 cables to shifter, have to fit shifter and housing on route it through bulkhead,
not sure on the hydraulic clutch,
electronic speedo,
putting all that together makes you think why bother lol
Rick Draper
14-07-10, 02:29 PM
Mounts nothing like a F20 or a F28. Typical misinformation.
You need one from a Z20LE variant as the bell housings change on other models for starter motor positioning.
Typical misinformation.
Typical idiotic reply :thumb:
Can i ask Why?!
F28, hard to find and not cheap
F20, not that strong and not easy to get either
f23 is z20let iirc?
in that case... build youre own chassis leg. nothing fits.
guy i know is building a z20let nova, using the z20let gearbox.
i'll see if i have some pic's.
Mounts can be in a few different places, but not in the usual nova place :(
Epic gearbox though!!!!! takes so so so much abuse and loves it.
Not sure what drive shafts you'd have to use either
Having a un-informed guess, i presume there is no way you could make up custom mounts to work at all, even if you changed the nova mounts?
Fair point on the F28/F20. F23's do seem cheap.
f23 is z20let iirc?
Came on 2.2s too
djbrowney
14-07-10, 04:21 PM
Came on 2.2s too
iirc the starter motor is on the front on this one, let me know how it goes becuase im also looking at doing this my self on my let. Purley because the spares are avalable and spares for f28 are nls :thumb:
there are spares for f28. there just expensive, and the guy wont help you, as he is an old nazi.
for an f23 you need to make youre own mount, and rebuild the chassis leg.
they use f20 cv's iirc.
http://corsaa.forum2go.nl/ombouw-naar-z20let-t131.html
this is his build thread, it should be running in about 3 weeks.
djbrowney
14-07-10, 04:28 PM
no there are fook all spares for F28, i wanted to replace every bearing in the gearbox and i could get about 3 so gave up !!!
send youre box to herlimann in switserland... will cost about 2500 euro to rebuild it.
he wont give you any help, so ringing him wont work.
he bought all the drawings from opel, even opel's EPC says 'hurlimann' when it's about the f28
F28 is a good box, no doubt, but when you have one you won't be going nuts just in case you break it, with a F23 you can do whatever you like and just get another one when it dies
Yeah but its going to cost the same as another F28 to put a F23 in your Nova lol
you could always M32 it too lol
djbrowney
14-07-10, 05:38 PM
that wont fit in a nova stu !!!
i am building an engine that is going to (i hope) make serrious bhp but i really dont know what to do gearbox wise £2500 i a lot to just go smash up after the first run !!!
bearings are bearings. if you have the old ones, you can get new ones. the quantities of box they manufactured are not sufficient to start making their own from scratch
bearings are bearings. if you have the old ones, you can get new ones. the quantities of box they manufactured are not sufficient to start making their own from scratch
10 points :)
its only things like synchros that you have to start worrying about. But even then, if you find a good setup you could see about getting it copied.
I'd endeavour with an F23 conversion personally. Although it could get expensive as cables arent cheap to get made up (I had some 'custom' ones made for the VX that were £130 for the pair, although that was half the price of ONE from vauxhall)
djbrowney
14-07-10, 06:13 PM
bearings are bearings. if you have the old ones, you can get new ones. the quantities of box they manufactured are not sufficient to start making their own from scratch
Yes you probaly can but bearings are not just bearings and not always as easy as it sounds, but the case that they sit in arnt not avaliable , they are not a generic bearing, if you can get them they only come in 1000 qt. If you can tell me where to get i will buy them bec you seem to know more than me
:p
They syncro are not a problem you can still buy them from regal at a fairl resonable price :thumb:
Rick Draper
15-07-10, 02:07 PM
Richard Brown people on here know everything about F28's dont you know.
Richard Brown people on here know everything about F28's dont you know.
i wouldn't claim to know anything about the internals of an F28 gearbox, but i have worked with a lot of specialised machinery over the years & a decent bearing factor can get pretty much everything, and i know a seal company that will actually make me a seal based on my dimensions, which is a great help if you have had to reface a shaft. its just a case of asking a lot of questions.
djbrowney
15-07-10, 04:00 PM
i have been to cooper roller bearings (being a massive company) they couldnt help at all. If you cant claim to know anything about the internals how can you say its possible, imo your chatting **** :)
bearings aint just bearings as im sure you know being so intelegent(sp)
Rick Draper
15-07-10, 04:05 PM
As Richard has stated in a past post the rollers are not the problem, the roller retention cage/roller holder is the issue. If someone can mould a few of them then its simples.
well, in that case, you will probably have to think sideways. what else was it fitted in??? it must have been in something other than a gm car...
the gearbox apparently has similarities with the 6 speed boxes as used in the st170 & the cooper, maybe its worth chasing them up.
i have been to cooper roller bearings (being a massive company) they couldnt help at all. If you cant claim to know anything about the internals how can you say its possible, imo your chatting **** :)
bearings aint just bearings as im sure you know being so intelegent(sp)
i just looked up cooper roller bearings. they manufacture stuff that is way too heavy duty for your needs.
i'm assuming you've been to people like 'bearing supplies'??
steveboyslim
16-07-10, 10:46 PM
well, in that case, you will probably have to think sideways. what else was it fitted in??? it must have been in something other than a gm car...
the gearbox apparently has similarities with the 6 speed boxes as used in the st170 & the cooper, maybe its worth chasing them up.
There are several bearings which apear to be unique to the getrag F28, they do not cross reference with any other bearing, or gearbox, st170, mini cooper or any, I have been onto Getrag in Germany.
The narrow series diff bearing can be do away with with other modifications.
The main shaft can be resized to fit a more generic bearing, but it weakens the shaft and it cost a fair bit to do.
HB bearing will make any bearing you like , if your pockets are deep enough.
They had remade front wheel bearings for my car, just under £400.......each.
Steve
i did notice there were a lot of strange references to a 282 box that appeared to be designed for the us market that the f28 seemed to be based on.. do you think the bearings could be some obscure imperial sizes?
i assume the global gm parts system is now empty
stupot89
16-07-10, 11:30 PM
the f23 out of a vectra b 2.0 16v (pic) does use a simalar mount to the f20 might even be the same mount . as for the cables they might be a bit long and clutch some one somewhere will do a custom pedal box. as for the 2.2 f23 starter is at the front and the v6 f23 has a deeper bell housing to make up for how short the engine is compared to a xe/let
http://i.ebayimg.com/14/!BtqnByQCWk~$(KGrHqQH-C4Evs(Rz(JWBL87k7jVbw~~_35.JPG
hope this clears a few things up about the f23 :thumb: :d
steveboyslim
17-07-10, 07:06 AM
i did notice there were a lot of strange references to a 282 box that appeared to be designed for the us market that the f28 seemed to be based on.. do you think the bearings could be some obscure imperial sizes?
i assume the global gm parts system is now empty
GM Europe say no stock, there never were any available, new exchange gearboxes at nearly £4000 each, some of the bearings were common to the F20 4x4 box
Metric is metric, imperial is imperial how is that going to help ?
Steve
knowing that design engineers are slightly lazy, in that if there is an item alread available, that they designed, they will try to reuse it in some way, i wondered if the american box was worth checking for parts. also south africa took the f28 & did it in 2wd. there might be some bits there, but looking at the overall cost of recon f28 boxes, has anyone looked into taking something like a toyota mr2 box or similar to handle the power and fitting it.
as has been said times, the gm stuff isn't always the best stuff.
if you want a rebuild F28, see hurlimann.
he will never help with info or anything, but he has everything needed, and the know-how.
steveboyslim
17-07-10, 01:01 PM
knowing that design engineers are slightly lazy, in that if there is an item alread available, that they designed, they will try to reuse it in some way, i wondered if the american box was worth checking for parts. also south africa took the f28 & did it in 2wd. there might be some bits there, but looking at the overall cost of recon f28 boxes, has anyone looked into taking something like a toyota mr2 box or similar to handle the power and fitting it.
as has been said times, the gm stuff isn't always the best stuff.
Tried SA nothing available and GM USA same result.
steve
if you want a rebuild F28, see hurlimann.
he will never help with info or anything, but he has everything needed, and the know-how.
and because he is the only man doing them, he can charge just what he likes & because he is in switzerland, the eu monopoly laws don't work......
i'm sure he payed a lot of money for the F28 rights, but he's a nazi.
if youre calling for info, all you get is 'you cant do that, i'm the only one' and if you keep asking, he's even going to you names etc lol
the f23 out of a vectra b 2.0 16v (pic) does use a simalar mount to the f20 might even be the same mount . as for the cables they might be a bit long and clutch some one somewhere will do a custom pedal box. as for the 2.2 f23 starter is at the front and the v6 f23 has a deeper bell housing to make up for how short the engine is compared to a xe/let
http://i.ebayimg.com/14/%21BtqnByQCWk%7E$%28KGrHqQH-C4Evs%28Rz%28JWBL87k7jVbw%7E%7E_35.JPG
hope this clears a few things up about the f23 :thumb: :d
I thought all x20xev engines came with a F18? :confused:
Mike, Steve knows what hes doing.... if he says there arent parts, there arent parts ;)
stupot89
20-07-10, 04:55 PM
I thought all x20xev engines came with a F18? :confused:
the sri x20xev versions came with f20's
djbrowney
20-07-10, 08:31 PM
the sri x20xev versions came with f20's
no they didnt lol
djbrowney
20-07-10, 08:32 PM
knowing that design engineers are slightly lazy, in that if there is an item alread available, that they designed, they will try to reuse it in some way, i wondered if the american box was worth checking for parts. also south africa took the f28 & did it in 2wd. there might be some bits there, but looking at the overall cost of recon f28 boxes, has anyone looked into taking something like a toyota mr2 box or similar to handle the power and fitting it.
as has been said times, the gm stuff isn't always the best stuff.
I also enquired about the mr2 box good for about 500 bhp an thats about it lot :(
Ive got a f23 in my 2.0 16v Mk4
Front mounts looks different than a F20, its hard to tell with the engine/box fitted though.
djbrowney
20-07-10, 08:54 PM
it is diffent, is mount of the front subframe. Would need new mounts making :)
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