What is the best engine?

[shrtwrec20]

Hi guys. Looking for your opinions on the best engine to fit,
c20xe?
c20let?
c16xe
e16se?
none of the above?

and what mods should be done to make it as quick as I can.
Throttle bodies?
Turbo?
Anything else?

I live in a rural area with lots of nice twisty roads, so acceleration is more important than top end.

I was considering turboing my GTE lump but I think it would be a shame if I got it wrong and ruined a good engine.

All ideas welcome:thumb:

[General Baxter]

x10xe :)

[simonm]

e16se tuned off its tits and a good close gear box cant beet it on the windy bits

[mk1nova_rich]

I live in a rural area with lots of nice twisty roads, so acceleration is more important than top end.



C16XE on twin carbs or ITBs

[General Baxter]

it all depends on budget

[shrtwrec20]

it all depends on budget

£2000ish?

[General Baxter]

budget £500 for suspension, and brakes :)

at a push, a throttlebody'd 2L xe would be possible for £1.5k

[simonm]

i have a e16se engine with a good few bits done and a good box with it want 1000euro for the lot pity im in ireland it realy is a back road beast

[shrtwrec20]

budget £500 for suspension, and brakes :)


Seperate budget for that ;)

[General Baxter]

i have a e16se engine with a good few bits done and a good box with it want 1000euro for the lot pity im in ireland it realy is a back road beast

dream on lol

[shrtwrec20]

Only thing worrying me about the heavier engines is how much handling I will lose?

[mowgli]

£2000ish?

look at baxters avatar...... he paid less than a grand for a 328..........

[simonm]

well the limo in the gear box cost me 900euro alone so not realy dreamin

[General Baxter]

look at baxters avatar...... he paid less than a grand for a 328..........

yep why spend £2k on a car parts, when you can just get a much better car for less lol


well the limo in the gear box cost me 900euro alone so not realy dreamin
can i have the spec of it lol

you could get a LSD'd F28 for that lol

[Nova_Tek]

For handling on twisties it has to be a small block very nicely tuned.

[General Baxter]

For handling on twisties it has to be a small block very nicely tuned.

a correctly set up, large block, handles just aswell :thumb:

[Nova_Tek]

I know it can, but it's easier to get the best for less with the small block.

[General Baxter]

ill throw a 1.7TD into this lol

[mowgli]

then you can run it on ribena like the rest of the welsh.... allegedly

[shrtwrec20]

>:(

[shrtwrec20]

Only reason I'm asking at the moment is I got a friend coming over this week to weld my engine bay strengthening kit in and if I need to move mounts, cut a space in the leg for bigger pulley etc now would be the time :)

[General Baxter]

do it anyway, then you can allways go bigger if you want too :)

[Benn]

There is no such thing as "best engine". Every ones needs are different, as is driving style and set up.

What do you want it for?

[andy_mk3]

My c16se feels decently fast (for a 1.6) in my astra, so tuned up a bit in a nova I dare say it'll be fairly nippy!

[peester]

best is x/z16 or x/z18 small block, heavily modified.. t.b's or better still turbo.

[shrtwrec20]

Umm. Going quick round the twistys :)

pembre race track ain't to far from me either so I'd like to have a blast round there also

[Nova_Tek]

At the end of the day the LET will be a great engine to go for if you're after acceleration and speed but it will take quite a bit of money and effort to get the handling perfcet enough to throw it into bends and come out in one piece without having a brown trouser moment as it's heavier especially with the F28.

A well tuned small block/lighter engine with a good CR box will offer good acceleration but would cost less to get a good setup for it.

All depends how deep your pockets go and how twisty it is round your end.

[sulphur]

TB'd C20xe or Tb'd C16xe.

Sensible option would be to buy a better car though. lol

Budget of 2k, seperate 500 budget for suspension and brakes...
Sell your nova, add sale monies to budgets and buy a starbo. =)

[shrtwrec20]

TB'd C20xe or Tb'd C16xe.

Sensible option would be to buy a better car though. lol

Budget of 2k, seperate 500 budget for suspension and brakes...
Sell your nova, add sale monies to budgets and buy a starbo. =)

Not that easy m8. The nova is un sellable in it's current state. It's been stripped to a shell and having lots of new panels welded in etc.

Besides that. I love novas. My second car was a nova and it was so much fun but because I was only 18 at the time I could never afford to insure a fast one.

Now I can and I just want it to be as quick as it can be and I can have more fun.

I've done the turbo jap car thing but it's just not the same feeling.lol

[shrtwrec20]

At the end of the day the LET will be a great engine to go for if you're after acceleration and speed but it will take quite a bit of money and effort to get the handling perfcet enough to throw it into bends and come out in one piece without having a brown trouser moment as it's heavier especially with the F28.

A well tuned small block/lighter engine with a good CR box will offer good acceleration but would cost less to get a good setup for it.

All depends how deep your pockets go and how twisty it is round your end.

I don't mind the brown trouser momentslol But I can't seem to find a c20let for less than a grand plus courier:( plus I'd have to consider the fact it's probably been ragged and may need a rebuild. I don't mind rebuilding engines but I don't like having to do it with engines that cost that much in the 1st place ;)

[simonm]

can i have the spec of it lol

you could get a LSD'd F28 for that lol[/quote]
i no i may have been a little ripped off with the limo but im told there still near that price its a tranex and has a 4.18 cwp and the engine has piper cam and pulley ported and polished head lightened balanced flyweel arp bolts 4 branch also comes with all needed for conversion loom tank pump every thing so dont think its to badly priced

[Nova_Tek]

LET's are overpriced, tis true. I've been loking for one for a while. IF I'm gonna buy a LET I may as well buy a cheap one and get it rebuilt. It'll end up same cost as an average LET but I'll know it's a good'un.

Get in touch with Steveboyslim. Does rebuilt LETs IIRC for around £1200.

[shrtwrec20]

My e16se already has all the above except the LSD.

[shrtwrec20]

Does he do sell them before the rebuild? No offence to anyone but I prefer to do that kind of thing myself

[simonm]

My e16se already has all the above except the LSD.
be honest ya wont get much better unless ya go xe and start tuning that

[Jack]

Sell your nova, add sale monies to budgets and buy a starbo. =)
I thought he wanted something that handled well? lol

For well under £2k you could get a decent spec'd 2.0, and add the leftovers to the handling pot.

[Steve0011]

I've done the turbo jap car thing but it's just not the same feeling.lol

i know exactly where your coming from :d i have a scooby sti for my every day car and a c14se nova as my rally car.....i just love driving the nova :thumb:

a mate also has a 1.4 nova rally car, quaife box, lsd etc he ran twin 40's for years and when they were banned for road rallys he swapped to the gte multipoint... his words 'i wish i had done it years ago' btw he does know a bit about peddling a nova around the twistys as he won the 1.4 stage championship a few years back :)

tunned small block, good suspension and the best brakes you can buy is the way to go :thumb:

[Stuart]

Z20NET with F23 and cable shift mods. WIN

Z20NETS are silly cheap at the moment.

[Steve0011]

here ya go have a look at this :d would be a good starting point :thumb:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Opel-Super-1600-16V-Kit-Cylinder-Head-220Bhp-/180402300874?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a00d0a7ca

[shrtwrec20]

What sort of work is needed to fit the z20net?

[Mieran]

For handling on twisties it has to be a small block very nicely tuned.

+1

x18xe1 is supposed to be a decent engine

[blue_peg_16v]

z28net ftmfw

[shrtwrec20]

:confused: Seems I have less of an idea now than when I started:confused:

[L33 LEG]

To confuse matters more you can buy my 106GTi for around £2k :wtf:

Nearly as quick as a 2.0ltr nova and lots of fun on the twisty roads that you'll want it for :thumb:

[Stuart]

basically there is no 'best' engine....

its all about the whole car.

What do you want to do with the car, what kind of budget do you have for the important things like brakes, suspension and tyres, What kind of gearbox will you want etc.

Its been prove time and time and time again that a well setup 'big block' will handle as well as a well setup small block etc. so the "weight" rubbish is irrelevant etc.

[shrtwrec20]

L33. Not interested m8. Had one of them a while back. Just me and French cars don't see eye to eye lol.

And stu. I want the car for road use and going quick around the twisty roads where I live. (Deja vu?)

as for the budget. 2000 on the engine. Not gonna worry about the rest yet as I haven't got that far, but saying that, whatever I need I will get. It doesn't need doing overnight. My last car I stripped to a shell and rebuilt took me 3 years because I have work commitments which don't allow me a huge amount of time for projects. As well as my kids

so money won't be a problem as I'll have plenty of time to save :D

[Jon_nova1]

1.6.

Yes the weight issue of the 2 litre is irrelevant, but why get a 2 litre, you'll need to spend extra time/money getting the weight compensated for, I would consider a 1.6 block more suitable for going down country roads and coming out the otherside alive and with some rubber left on your tyres

[Stuart]

For a fun B road car I go with:

Club priced GAZ coilovers :)
20XE with decent 4 branch exhaust manifold.
an LSD (either plate or ATB, your call)
decent wheels and tyres and some std discs of whatever size you want with Mintex 1155 pads on there and new DOT 5.1 Fluid :)

Should make for a right old giggle in the back roads and still capable on track if you wanted

[Mieran]

To confuse matters more you can buy my 106GTi for around £2k :wtf:

Nearly as quick as a 2.0ltr nova and lots of fun on the twisty roads that you'll want it for :thumb:

No where near ;)

[burgo]

L33. Not interested m8. Had one of them a while back. Just me and French cars don't see eye to eye lol.

And stu. I want the car for road use and going quick around the twisty roads where I live. (Deja vu?)

as for the budget. 2000 on the engine. Not gonna worry about the rest yet as I haven't got that far, but saying that, whatever I need I will get. It doesn't need doing overnight. My last car I stripped to a shell and rebuilt took me 3 years because I have work commitments which don't allow me a huge amount of time for projects. As well as my kids

so money won't be a problem as I'll have plenty of time to save :D

so what you are saying is you are going to do things backwards??? anyone with any sense would concentrate on the suspension and brakes before the engine

[shrtwrec20]

Like I've already said. The welder is coming round this week so any mods need doing in the engine bay need doing now. Then I'll be painting the shell and panels and putting it to one side till I get an engine sorted. Can't see the sense sorting the suspension with no weight in the car

anyway. What about fitting some bike throttle bodies to my e16se. Will that make a noticeable differance? I know I'll need management but that's ok

[mowgli]

what it costs for management alone is way more than it costs to stick a stock XE in... and you would have more power for a start.

[shrtwrec20]

So, roughley, how much would it cost me to buy a xe and conversion kit, plus cambelt etc?

[lukehamlyn]

i paid 500 puond for a corsa redtop off my mate with f16 cr gearbox brand new lighted and balanced flywheel with racing clutch and 4 to 1 mainfold and scorpion exhaust system...i had to buy a new engine mount and slightly moddifly the centre pipe off the exhaust to fit proply...and i made some money back seeling corsa parts from the shell...:)

[General Baxter]

i paid 500 puond for a corsa redtop off my mate with f16 cr gearbox brand new lighted and balanced flywheel with racing clutch and 4 to 1 mainfold and scorpion exhaust system...i had to buy a new engine mount and slightly moddifly the centre pipe off the exhaust to fit proply...and i made some money back seeling corsa parts from the shell...:)

wikid racing clutch lol

[krobinson]

I've had a tuned small block on 40's and it was great fun, but my C20LET just takes the fun to a whole new level.

With the LET you'll have silly amounts of fun, setup well with a diff the handleing is spot on, and your safe in the knowlage you can upset some very expensive cars.

[shrtwrec20]

ok i think i have decided

Seen as I already have an intercooler which i was gonna use for my 1.6 project. I'm gonna go LET (as long as I can find 1 lol)

I just looked through the how to article for fitting a xe. Are all the mounts and areas which need cutting away the same for the LET?

I'd like to get all the bodywork sorted before I buy an engine which might get in my way :D

[Nova_Tek]

The nearside gearbox mount on the chassis leg needs cutting and a new one welded in position to be able to fit the F28. The other mounts are in the right place you just need a conversion mount kit.

The rear gearbox mount needs a spacer.

If you fit a F20, which is normally a debatable subject, then you won't need to cut and weld the nearside mount, the F20 will fit as it is but them lating is down to luck... apparently :p

[shrtwrec20]

Isn't the f28 the 4x4 box? Are there any others that fit?

[Stuart]

F28 converted to 2wd... simple

[shrtwrec20]

Yeah I get that Stu. But I was under the impression the f28 was a bit of a crappy box? Or was that only the prop shaft output?

[Stuart]

and where did you get this wrong impression from?

2wd converted F28's are good... allbeit lardy arsed

[shrtwrec20]

My friend had a calibra 4x4 back in the day but he had constant trouble with the gb's.

Anyway. you say lardy arsed? Is the f20 any better?

[Stuart]

weak and will die (although some get away with a let'd F20)


I'd say F23 but then you need cable shift and more headaches with the driveshafts

[shrtwrec20]

OK m8. Thanks for the info. I'm gonna get the stitch welding done today as well as the lower rear corner hopefully. My welder mate should be here in 1/2 hour.

I'll get the shell ready for a big block so whatever I do in the end Shouldn't be too much work.

Thanks again to everyone for there input

[Nova_Tek]

Yeah I get that Stu. But I was under the impression the f28 was a bit of a crappy box? Or was that only the prop shaft output?

Who told you that?

Most reliable box to use on the LET for obvious reasons, you can put loadsa power through it and they're happy, just try get a good one.

As Stu said though, they are a bit heavy.

The F20 is a hit and miss subject. Just search the forum, there has been plenty of talk about them. Some people say they are weak as most likely the've been thrashed so much in XE's and most of them have starship Enterprise mileage which does't help. Then again some people have had no issues with theirs.

Some have been known to use the F16 with no problems so it's all down to the luck of the draw tbh.

[MK999]

My friend had a calibra 4x4 back in the day but he had constant trouble with the gb's.

Anyway. you say lardy arsed? Is the f20 any better?

More specifically the transfer box that makes it 4wd, the 2wd 'part' of it is spot on and run in a lot of high power LETs

[phunkynova]

No way steve0011 twin 40's where banned from road rally's in 1985 maybe 84
so how did he run them on a Nova for years or have I misunderstood you if so sorry.
Back to your motor shrtwrec on the tight and twisty lanes less weight rules if you can keep the engine weight down all the better. Turbos are good but not for slow tight stuff its that old problem called lag.

[Cle]

Personally id go with a 1.6 8v then highly tune it with webbers :) or if you have money get the C16XE and throttle bodie it or save another 1k and buy this http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=150707 :thumb:

[Big_Chap]

z28net ftmfw

+1