Random timing issue

[djshaggeh]

Driving yesterday and all of a sudden the car back fired and started pinking, I limped it home. I've checked the dizzy and it hasn't moved, last time it was adjusted was about 6 months ago. Checked the dizzy cap just incase aswell, no problems there. So I slackened off the dizzy and it made it worse, so I've put that back to where it was, no difference. Whats next, check the plugs?

The cars a daily runner so I need it to get to work. Any speedy replies would be appreciated. Its an e16se btw. :thumb:

[bazil]

My e16se GSI pinked really badly, it was the square top cam cover with black dizzy and siemens ECU, the cause was a poor gearbox earth aswell as the co level ( ie fuel to air mix ) was far too weak, the guy set it up for me and the difference was fantastic.

[Jon_nova1]

check the plugs? it depends how confident you are its a timing issue, if you know it is then check the timing belt and strobe light the ignition

[bazil]

check the plugs? it depends how confident you are its a timing issue, if you know it is then check the timing belt and strobe light the ignition

the timing can not be checked with a strobe on the late E16SE as they don't have a ignition timing mark on the bottom of the engine, the only mark I found on mine was on the crank cog to line up the valve timing,

(edit) I should point out that the early e16 in my GTE has a notch on the bottom pulley and a pointer on the block to check and set the timing but no pointer on the gsi engine.

[djshaggeh]

Just checking the plugs now Jon. They seem a bit black and sooty. Just checking there all sparking. I'm fairly confident its a timing issue, as it feels similiar to the issues I had when I first got it. I could be wrong of course. Just seems strange that its been driving fine and all of a sudden its started playing up. It could be **** fuel because I filled up just before it started happening.

[Southie]

Here's the trusty old picture of plug colours from Haynes for you. :)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll10/djervin/reading_spark_plugs.jpg

[mowgli]

is the afm jammed open? or the silly cold start bypass valve? i think its overfueling, so one of the sensors is making it read funny.

ecu light codes???

another thought, has the timing belt slipped?

[burgo]

might be worth checking the cam timing aswell incase its jumped a tooth

[djshaggeh]

Right I'm pretty sure the dizzy cap was at fault, I just re-checked it and it seems there is deposits around two of the points, cleaned them up and it runs alot better although not perfect. So I've ordered plugs, leads, dizzy and rotor arm all coming tommorow that should cure it. I will check the timing and mixture at the weekend.

Thanks for all the replys, helpful as always, +rep on route :)

edit: Mowgli, Southie and Jon, it appears I've been bumming you too much, so no plus rep, sorry

[djshaggeh]

Scratch that, its just as bad. Seems ok until it warms up then its starts pinking/bogging down loads. I just travelled at 50 down the M40 with like C1s and lorries overtaking me. I gotta get it sorted asap as its a depressing state of affairs. Is there a chance it could be fueling related?

[mowgli]

for gods sake get it looked at... check the cam timing, then get it plugged in somewhere good, you'll give the png a bad name driving that slow

[djshaggeh]

I haven't got any PNG stickers on my car, no free advertising here buddy. I'm the sort of sad **** that turns tesco bags inside out :P lol

On a serious note, is there anyway of testing the coil and module that sits underneath the coil?

[bazil]

Is it an early or late spec engine?

[djshaggeh]

Early I think, it came from an G reg

[bazil]

Well what shape is the top of the cam cover? What make is the ECU? and what colour is the dizzy cap?

[djshaggeh]

Round top on the cam cover, Bosch 0227 291 053 ecu, orange dizzy cap

[bazil]

Good, that the early engine, the later square top cam cover has a siemens brain, Bosch AFM, and Lucas black dizzy.

Your coil should be the round cylinder type and iirc it tells you how to check it in the haynes manual.
The timing mark on the bottom pulley will have a pointer at the bottom of the block to check timing.
My money would be on a fueling issue rather than timing.
Sorry I can't be anymore help but I'd get the co levels checked asap.

[djshaggeh]

Coolio, thanks for your help Bazil. I'll cheak out lines, pump etc.

[bazil]

More likley it's a fuel/air mix problem rather than fuel delivery,

[burgo]

ive head of the contacts in the afm wearing out or getting dirty, might be worth checking

[djshaggeh]

Pulled off the send and the return and blew them out with an airline and fitted a new inline filter. Still the same :(

I will check the connection on the AFM now, cheers burgo.

[burgo]

Pulled off the send and the return and blew them out with an airline and fitted a new inline filter. Still the same :(

I will check the connection on the AFM now, cheers burgo.i mean actually inside it, one sec and ill dig out a pic

[djshaggeh]

Pulled it off, checked the pins. they looked fine but gave them a little scrape anyways, seems a little better but still not right :(

[djshaggeh]

i mean actually inside it, one sec and ill dig out a pic

Oh I see, cheers burgo.

[mowgli]

i attended a seminar at one of the old vboa winter events at stoneleigh back in the day & it was about l3.1 jetronic systems, done by a blokey from bosch GB. he was adamant that 99% of all efi problems could be solved with wd40 & a rag.

ps. for any of you who are thinking of doing it, he did not have a funny uniform & a white stripe on his face.

[burgo]

in here :p

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/sclurgess/DSCN2262.jpg

you can see the track the arm sweeps across, as mowgli says abit of wd40 on a rag and gently clean the strip, or if you've got it proper contact cleaner.

[djshaggeh]

/me goes to the stock cupboard and pulls out 3 cans of budget brand wd40 and a roll of tissue

Edit: cheers Mr B, I have the unit sat infront of me I'll give it a go :)

[mowgli]

it looks like the gubbings from one of those old dial phones..........i'd forgot what they looked like

[djshaggeh]

Cleaned it up, it was quite dirty. Stuck it back on no difference :(:mad::cry:

Theres a petrol station next door, I may fill up the tank, stick a rag in the petrol tank and drive it towards the nearest chav group and do some yipee-kay-yay shizzle just so as its not a waste.

[burgo]

i had this same problem years ago and never got to the bottom of it, i think the only thing i didnt try was a new ignition modual, ive still got the new one i bought for it in me wardrobe lol. oh that and i didnt try a NEW dizzy, i tried a different one though.

[bazil]

I'll say it again



CO MIXTURE lol

[djshaggeh]

Ok ok! Ill give it a go. I aint got a haynes manual with me, where abouts are the screws?

[mowgli]

mine has had a nagging ecu light fault for about 2 years, every time i revved it over 3500rpm, it faltered & the light came on, once up to 5k, it cleared itself, or if i let off the throttle, it cleared..

last sunday, i was out for a trip & all of a sudden, there was a judder & it has cleared properly, no lights & it runs fine...

i hate unfindable faults too..... i wonder if its anything to do with the egr thing

[bazil]

There is only 1 mixture screw and it's on the afm iirc with a little black cap on it, carefully remove the cap and the screw is under it, as for adjusting it I'm in the dark as I put mine into a Bosch expert.

Before adjusting anything have you checked all your engine earths?

[burgo]

Ok ok! Ill give it a go. I aint got a haynes manual with me, where abouts are the screws?thats on the air flow meter aswell lol do you want a pic?

[mowgli]

Ok ok! Ill give it a go. I aint got a haynes manual with me, where abouts are the screws?

one on the afm, one on the inlet... i have no idea what does what though

[MK999]

mixture only adjusts the idle mixture I heard somewhere (2nd hand info) one on the TB would be the idle screw if its the one im thinking of, can only think of one on the tb though so its a decent chance

[bazil]

one on the afm, one on the inlet... i have no idea what does what though
The one on the inlet is for setting the idle speed

[mowgli]

ta Bazil, i have never bothered to mess with them as i don't have a co2 thingy, & i just get the mot man to adjust it

[burgo]

in the haynes manual it calls it the "idle mixture adjustment screw" so doubt it will do anything above idle

oh and i dont think the egr valve causes this problem as i had mine removed

the CO screw is in the sticky outy bit on the face closest in this pic

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/sclurgess/SAM_0848.jpg

[djshaggeh]

Awesome, I'll give it a go cheers lads.

Is there any reason why it would suddenly change the mixture?

[mowgli]

air leak, wonky sensor reading, as a guess

[djshaggeh]

I've changed the mixture not sure if its richer or leaner but it seems to have cleared it at the lower end of the range but its still there above about 4.5k. You were saying about the EML, mine hasn't flashed once. Is it in the middle of the clocks (I have GTE clocks) I'll just make sure there is actually a bulb in there.

[bazil]

Mine never showed any faults on the ecu either.

[djshaggeh]

No bulb in for the EML :roll:

Anyone know which is the EML, I have the one with the engine and the one with the spanner. Neither have a bulb in.

I'm just hoping its not an issue with the fueling i.e injectors or FPR or the coil and ignition module. I can't afford it with it being so close to the end of the month.

[mowgli]

engine.. can't remember, cos mine is the choke light symbol... i left the choke cable in as well to confuse people

[djshaggeh]

Right, I just went to get some beers and was pulling into my drive and it started spluttering like it was running out of fuel. I got out and I could smell fuel. The send pipe had been rubbing on the alternator and had split. What a retard I am! Nevermind all sorted now.

Any chance air bubbles in the lines could of caused my poor running?

[MK999]

Any chance air bubbles in the lines could of caused my poor running?

Or the loss of pressure yeah, if it was leaking on the alt you were bloody lucky it didn't go up in flames tbh!

[djshaggeh]

Yeh tell me about it. Thats why I shouldn't be working on cars lol

[MK999]

Was an Astra (iirc? some sort of vaux anyway) that went up in flames on the way to PV or similar couple years ago, exact same issue. Was completely burnt out by the time the fire service got there :eek:

[djshaggeh]

Well hopefully its fixed, cuase of low pressure, I can't tell yet, I've ran out of fuel lol Mummy dearest is on route after the game with a jerry can :)

[MK999]

Just make sure the fuel line is well out the way this time lol

[djshaggeh]

I've cable tied it up and right out of the way. Must be about the 95th cable tie on the car so far, the rest of it is held together with snot and chewing gum lol

[bazil]

Flol I hope it's all good now mate, my mate forgot to cable tie his oil pipes on his LET mk2 astra gte, bottom pulley into said pipes and bingo high pressure oil leak FTW lol

[djshaggeh]

^lol

Its still broken :( I'm gonna check the cambelt make sure it hasn't skipped a tooth. Jimbob timed it up for me last year so there is marks on it. Cam pulley at 12 oclock and see if the mark on the crank pulley lines up with pointer. Or so I'm told.

I'm gonna get the epileptic gun out tommorow and double check EVERYTHING.

I hate cars....

[bazil]

Iirc the mark on the pulley is only a ignition timing mark but if you take of the bottom pulley and look at the crank cog that drives the toothed belt one of the teeth has a dot on it that lines up with a notch on the block to give you TDC on no1 piston, Also on that engine it's the water pump that acts as the tensioner for the belt.

Do you do the tipex thing when using a timing strobe?

[djshaggeh]

Well, not tipex, nail varnish! They call me Monica on a weekend ;)

I'll have a look when I've woken up abit and I can actually function. Once again, your a star bazil.

[burgo]

Iirc the mark on the pulley is only a ignition timing mark but if you take of the bottom pulley and look at the crank cog that drives the toothed belt one of the teeth has a dot on it that lines up with a notch on the block to give you TDC on no1 piston, Also on that engine it's the water pump that acts as the tensioner for the belt.

Do you do the tipex thing when using a timing strobe?

correct the cam timing mark is under the pulley, the mark on the pulley is for your ignition timing

[bazil]

this fixed mate?

[djshaggeh]

No, its partly stripped but I couldn't get the bottom pulley off so its down to my mates garage after work to get it air gunned off.

I got someone to look at it whos a bit more clued up then me and they said it looks like its jumped a tooth or two.

I got some second hand injectors to go on there too. Will let you know later or tommorow.

[bazil]

cool, hope it gets fixed, whats the engine in? a gte?

[Rich]

Get a breaker bar on teh bottom pulley, give the car a quick crank to crack it off :thumb: