Causes of Juddering Under Braking

[AlexW]

My corsa (Uhh) Judders under braking, im thinking discs, but before i shell out for a brake upgrade, anything else it might be?

Its done it with two sets of wheels.

Im certainly led to believe its discs as it gets worse the more you brake.

Any help would be goodski

Ta

[davidfox280585]

known faulty tires do it and buckled wheels even no spigot rings cause it

[AlexW]

Its done it with two sets of wheels.

Completely standard disc setup, on vauxhall alloys (Both sets), one set was from my tigra, which are perfectly fine on my tigra.

[Nova_Tek]

most of the time it's warped discs mate, from my experience.

[bazil]

Track rod end, warpped discs.

[AlexW]

Preety much what i was thinking, Just need to find my self some calipers now.

[djshaggeh]

Make sure you clean up the hubs as 99% of the time the discs warp because the hub wasn't clean when the disc were mounted in the first place.

[djshaggeh]

known faulty tires do it and buckled wheels even no spigot rings cause it
If it was either they would vibrate at certain speeds or constantley

[mowgli]

it could be knackered pads, sticking caliper, siezed slider, worn steering joint, tre, or even an airlock one side causing funny braking.

is it an abs model? as someone once asked me to sort out his brakes and on a road test, i found them to be fine, so asked him to show me. he flew down the road & jumped on the brake, causing the abs to kick in, and he thought it was a fault...................

[AlexW]

Not ABS, I know what that feels like thanks to the tigra and some **** drivers.

I cant see anything else moving around too much, and those little solids have been thrashed, so i think il be upgrading them asap.

[Jack]

Discs vary rarely warp; do you bed the brakes in properly when fitting new pads etc? And do you often pull to a hard stop to standing without easing off the pedal before coming to a standstill?

[Stuart]

Discs vary rarely warp; do you bed the brakes in properly when fitting new pads etc? And do you often pull to a hard stop to standing without easing off the pedal before coming to a standstill?


^^ That!!!


most of the time discs dont warp.

Some other fault.

When I had a stuck caliper the disc was red hot, the wheel was too hot to touch and the tyre was about 10psi up on what it should have been, the disc was 'fine' once I cracked the caliper off and drove it to cool off

[mowgli]

discs can get hotspotted, which causes certain areas to end up harder than others, this can cause juddering simply because the harder spots have different characteristics to the less hard ones... but i still side with calipers or cooked pads

[Lee]

Worn front shockers will also cause this.

Plenty for you to check :)

[AlexW]

Discs vary rarely warp; do you bed the brakes in properly when fitting new pads etc? And do you often pull to a hard stop to standing without easing off the pedal before coming to a standstill?

Brakes are well worn. Does it even if you just feather the brakes.


Worn front shockers will also cause this.

Plenty for you to check :)

I do think the front shocks are funked...

...Butt they only judder after some braking, from cold, there fine, no juddering.

Got to be discs?

[mowgli]

your choice.

1.stick some new pads & discs, get the fluid renewed, then take it very easy for about 200 miles to bed them in.....
2. stick some pads & discs in, carry on as normal & be on here in 2 months asking again...
3. put some 256 vents on properly(as in choice 1).

[Stuart]

your choice.

1.stick some new pads & discs, get the fluid renewed, then take it very easy for about 200 miles to bed them in.....



fail...

gentle bedding in is what causes 99% of uneven brake deopsits.

even for oem style pads you should do a few 30-2mph stops to get some warmth into the system, then some 60-30slow downs, then some 60/70-2mph stops.....

Done.

[mowgli]

stuart, 1991-1993, i worked for a brake relining company. we were dealing with ferodo technical regularly, they even had us play with some vauxhall pads. they recommended we did what i said. they also recommended the gentle bedding in method on hgv braking materials.

anyway your method.... what happens if you live in a big city, and drive in a big city??? you just won't get the speed up to do it.....

[Stuart]

stuart, 1991-1993, i worked for a brake relining company. we were dealing with ferodo technical regularly, they even had us play with some vauxhall pads. they recommended we did what i said. they also recommended the gentle bedding in method on hgv braking materials.

anyway your method.... what happens if you live in a big city, and drive in a big city??? you just won't get the speed up to do it.....

good excuse to get out of the city...
and you can just increase the 60-30 ones (most cities have some sort of dual carridgeway that is 50-60mph in them)

I've noticed that gentle bedding in = increased wear rates..... so of course a brake company will recomened you bed them in gently ;)

[mowgli]

we also found that when they went onto asbestos free, there was a lot more warping of discs & drums, that then needed skimming & re-radiussing after the first month, then they were fine afterwards.

[Jon_nova1]

you'll both probably find your looking in the wrong place for the answer, brake companies don't particularly care how you bed them in, its just to cover thier own backs,

Take Mintex for example, we have a section that deals with warranty, now the bloke that deals with the claims is actually the on site health and safety advisor and takes on alot of other roles within the company, the only reason being is the faulty stock is so low the area comprises of one desk and might have a set of discs on there that were fitted incorrectly!

Not long ago there was a warranty claim in, some bloke in a T5 had new brake pads fitted, drove down some road, slammed his brakes on and the the brake compound came away from the backing plate, the end result was he got a new set of brake pads and a new alloy because his other one was dented, of course we couldn't say the claims invalid, the only thing we could do was say yes the backing plate seperated heres some new brakes and an alloy

[Stuart]

ive got the mintex 1144/55/66/77 bedding in procedure in my google docs area, will link later for those types of pad.

Mind you the procedure is pretty much the same for all types of pad, from mincey organic to carbon metallic/ceramics.

you need to get heat into them soon to cook off all the goo in them and also put the transfer layer onto the discs properly

[Jon_nova1]

arr, but thats heading into a whole different territory lol

because performance pads are designed to run/be capable of running at higher temperatures different materials are used, for example a standard pad would have glue thrown on it, the backing plate stuck on then its thrown through an oven, performance pads although the process is the same the glue would have to have a higher setting temperature and put into a hotter oven, i don't know the exact details because i don't work at manufacturing.

Both proceedures are correct, it just depends what the manufacturer is willing to tell you and how spirited you are with unbedded pads, If i had new discs and pads i'd treat them like bedded in and abuse them at will, for old discs id be more careful

[mowgli]

about the only thing else that needs putting into this thread, is that it is not too good to put a new disc in with old pads.

[AlexW]

I had already decided i was going to change the brakes.

[AlexW]

Change of brakes (Vented this time!), still does it, just not as bad. Been suggested to change the brake pads, as they could be cheap **** ones.

Still only does it when the brakes are warm (Like braking from 70mph to 0, but grandly gets worse when using them), when cold there perfect.

Any other ideas than pads?

[AlexW]

Anyone? Want to try some other things aswell today, rather than sitting on my ****.

[Jack]

I read that as you changed the discs without changing the pads? :confused:

[AlexW]

Sorry, failed there.
Ive changed the calipers, discs and pads, not brand new, but just bedded in.

Seems to be much better now ive used them more though, still judders, just not as bad.

[Stuart]

Then its not the brakes

[Nova_Tek]

Suspension pivot points? Hub?