View Full Version : Oil pressure fluctuation... Tappets, and more..
scott.parker
31-05-10, 10:23 PM
Right then, so Ive been out in the XE track car today, and Ive noticed that the oil pressure fluctuates, so if it's idle it sits at hath on the gage, then in say 3rd gear at 3k'rpm it's sat on the 2nd to last mark on the gage, then when it's under load,or full throttle it sits bag on the full mark on the gage, so is this anything to worry about? or it's just my oil maybe to thick,or thin even??
Also Ive had some sticky tappet issues lately, could this be linked? and whats the procedures for cleaning them, any links to a how to on here??
And lastly, it's just passed an MOT last week, but i feel like there is some play in the steering, maybe worn ball joints as it's also got a slight clunk from the lower off side, without sounding silly is there an easy way to tell if the rack is worn, or faulty without removing?
Cheers for any help.
Scott
Pressure will change when driving hard and soft. As long as it doesn't go in to the red.
Vauxhall them selfs say in the heat it can drop to just under the first line (or light flicker)
Rack wise, is there much play when you steer? As in the steering wheels move but the wheels dont..
djbrowney
31-05-10, 10:29 PM
the tappits will make noise if your round a track with no baffel in the sump, do your track rods spin round in the hole when your doing them up ??? if so i would be inclined to changed them because i always find you cant do the nut up enough !!!!
nova_saloon
31-05-10, 10:29 PM
could be a sticky relief valve they do go iff the pump is not new!
Nova_Tek
31-05-10, 10:31 PM
Sounds normal to me pal. My Nova would hit max at start up even at idle, when engine was at running temp and at idle it'll be low say 1/4. Anything above 2500rpm would see it at high oil pressure. Granted it was only a 1.2 but all Vaux's I've been in respond the same.
As for the steering noise, could be track rod ends, bushes, suspension top mounts not seated properly (issues that I've come across)
let_nova
31-05-10, 10:31 PM
the tappits will make noise if your round a track with no baffel in the sump, do your track rods spin round in the hole when your doing them up ??? if so i would be inclined to changed them because i always find you cant do the nut up enough !!!!
lol:wtf: clamp or bar on the top of the track rod while you tighten
djbrowney
31-05-10, 10:31 PM
he would loose oil pressure full stop it the relife valve played up !!!
djbrowney
31-05-10, 10:32 PM
lol:wtf: clamp or bar on the top of the track rod while you tighten
it moving for a reason buddy :eek:
he would loose oil pressure full stop it the relife valve played up !!!
Not true, mine used to stick on a xe and it would mean it was way way to high..
nova_saloon
31-05-10, 10:48 PM
yep happened to me went to high at one point, so took it out polished it to ****, then polished the inside of it, has worked for now but not as well as it should work.
Unless my oil is super-hot (trackday) my pressure gauge is always near the top at any revs above idle - so that doesnt sound right to me - at 3k it should be pretty much max tbh...
XEs dont usually suffer with sticky tappets, they do randomly tap, but I would hazard a guess that the two things are related - ie, does the pressure drop as the tappits start rattling?
Although the pressure would have to be more or less zero for it not getting to the top end...?
scott.parker
01-06-10, 04:40 PM
Thats the thing, mines always had a steady oil pressure, it sits at half way on tick over then picks up to between the two last marks on the gage, hence way i was quite concerned to see it dropping and diving up like it was.. Humm, im quite confused really, as for tappets mines always been mid range for noise, never quiet, nor loud, and this was VERY rattly, until after 10mins of normal steady driving it freed up and stopped doing it..
Looks like i best get in to a garage for a check over before PV, as Ive not got the knowledge, or time to try figure out whats wrong.
Scott
it moving for a reason buddy :eek:
I've had brand new joits spin when doing them up... its par for the course.
Southie
01-06-10, 04:48 PM
Have you got another oil sender you could try Scott?
My C16xe was doing a similar thing but when I changed it some how it cured it, I changed mine though as it was leaking around the screw thread.
My oil gauge sits roughly above 3/4 to full whilst driving and halfway when idling, however my mates rally car with similar engine has his gauge drop below half due to his oil getting so hot/thin under heavier throttle.
Also check your steering rack bushes haven't gone or loosened. :)
is it due an oil change? because thin oil will make the gauge readings go allover the place.
scott.parker
01-06-10, 05:06 PM
Humm Ive got a bad feeling about this oil problem... And it could be worse then i first thought, just been searching the net etc, and with the fact Ive not ever had the MBE mapped and running on the base, if it's been over fueling all this time theres a chance Ive washed my bores enough so that over time the oil is thinning out with petrol, and this would be a possibility as to the fluctuation, this is WORST case scenario though, I'll get a mate who's mechanically minded to come do a compression test, and I'll take it from there.
As for the rack/play issues, im going to fit a quick rack and new ends/joints etc.
Scott
scott.parker
01-06-10, 05:07 PM
is it due an oil change? because thin oil will make the gauge readings go allover the place.
Changed it last year before combe/September time, cars done about 500 miles max since.
Southie
01-06-10, 05:11 PM
Does your dipstick smell of petrol? (sounds wrong lol) Also the plugs are they wet from fuel??
scott.parker
01-06-10, 05:14 PM
I'll check my plugs, last time they were fairly dry, though if it's sits for long periods they can be wet, as for fuel smell.. the back of the oil cap has a slight petrol smell to it, so this is why im worried it's bore wash.. Although when i did the oil last year it smelt of fuel a bit, so i asked my dad (wisdom of age lol) and he said TBF it will have a slight smell of fuel, and he didn't think it was that bad, Humm.
Scott
Southie
01-06-10, 05:18 PM
mmm, best getting the compression test done tbh, a bit surprised you didn't get it setup really.
scott.parker
01-06-10, 05:22 PM
I would have
BUT... I didn't have the money too at fist when the TB's were on the old GSi, so left it as was told it should been OK, and it has/was, then that car got scrapped 3 years back, and then Ive only really used the engine in this car with the TB's on it, so in total Ive possibly done 2K miles with it on TB's un-mapped.
(only really finished this car last year for PV, as i had been skint while out of work)
You can borrow my wideband if you like )if you can be bothered to drive over!) lol
I would also swap the pressure senders over - they are renowned for doing silly things!
If it was bore-washing you would know about it! Smokey, smelly and absolutely AWFUL fuel cons.
I think you're worrying about nothing Scott, oil pressure wise.
Unless it sits on the 1st mark when you're above 2k rpm, then its fine IMO
But saying that my pressure never drops below 3/4-1/2, even after a session on track. And its full by 2000rpm.
I think you're worrying about nothing Scott, oil pressure wise.
Unless it sits on the 1st mark when you're above 2k rpm, then its fine IMO
But saying that my pressure never drops below 3/4-1/2, even after a session on track. And its full by 2000rpm.
Disagree! Above 2k rpm there is no other place that needle should be apart from max - end of.
Whilst it is probably nothing to worry about - it shouldnt be ignored!
a new gear set for an xe can't be much... and a new relief valve won't exactly break the bank. worn shells will be more costly though...
scott.parker
02-06-10, 08:06 PM
Right I'll order some parts later as i need a few odds/sods etc, then I'll get my mate to check comp ratios etc..it's all go go! lol
So Scott, when you're at 3k rpm, your needle sits where? In the middle of the gauge?
As Will said tbh, every engine ive had has been over 3/4-full above 2k rpm, but it is probably nothing to worry about. Unless it does start dropping low even with revs.
Is the bottom end 100% standard?
Actually, reading back how i worded my last reply, id go more with what Will said, you should always have good oil pressure with revs.... How i worded it made it sound like "as long as it aint in red, its fine" Which is wrong
scott.parker
02-06-10, 08:19 PM
Bottom end 100% standard (bar arp bolts)
Well if you going along say in 3rd at 3k rpm and dipped the clutch in it will drop from half to just over 1/4 then if you boot it it goes to 3/4- full, but drops off quick when the revs die off, Ive never seen it do it before, so i might just be the sender on it's way out etc.. dont know, you know how it is though they make you paranoid! lol
Southie
02-06-10, 08:20 PM
If you can get hold of another sender I'd try that first.
Bottom end 100% standard (bar arp bolts)
Well if you going along say in 3rd at 3k rpm and dipped the clutch in it will drop from half to just over 1/4 then if you boot it it goes to 3/4- full, but drops off quick when the revs die off, Ive never seen it do it before, so i might just be the sender on it's way out etc.. dont know, you know how it is though they make you paranoid! lol
No real biggy then tbh. Even if the bottom end dies, whats it going cost to replace.......
Thats the way id look at it anyway.
scott.parker
02-06-10, 08:31 PM
Oh i know Ive thought that mate, just dont want to take it to pvs and then kill it there! lol
Big_Chap
02-06-10, 11:20 PM
Not sure about the pressure situation, mine would be full all the time when cold and when warm the top two bars would disappear on idle but since the tbs cams etc for some reason they drop by three on idle. But the slightest of blips on the throttle (1.5-2k) and they would be full bars when warm.
scott.parker
03-06-10, 11:51 PM
Right I'm getting a mate to comp test tomo, but i think Ive got some better answers for some of my issues.
Firstly my engine is set to run from a manually switched pump, so you can leave the fuel on/pressurized even if it's not needed, my conclusion is Ive been slowly letting fuel sit onto top of the pistons and it's been slowly working it's way past the rings when it's left sat for prolonged periods, so this in turn has thinned the oil slightly and is another reason as to why the gage was fluctuating, and for some of the smoke on start/first blat etc..
All look as possibility's?
Either way topping oil up has stopped two probs, 1) not tapping 2) no thin oil, less leaking too...
Right I'm getting a mate to comp test tomo, but i think Ive got some better answers for some of my issues.
Firstly my engine is set to run from a manually switched pump, so you can leave the fuel on/pressurized even if it's not needed, my conclusion is Ive been slowly letting fuel sit onto top of the pistons and it's been slowly working it's way past the rings when it's left sat for prolonged periods, so this in turn has thinned the oil slightly and is another reason as to why the gage was fluctuating, and for some of the smoke on start/first blat etc..
All look as possibility's?
Either way topping oil up has stopped two probs, 1) not tapping 2) no thin oil, less leaking too...
Thats unlikely to be honest mate, as the injectors actually spray the fuel in, the rest is channelled back out and into the tank if its not needed....
Get your ass to Wales - I have a comp tester and a wide band you can use! ;)
scott.parker
04-06-10, 06:01 PM
Did a comp test today and they were all the same at 175psi, any one know how to work out the ratio of that? as Ive looked quickly on the net to no real avail, is running better now, as i DROVE it to work and back lol
djbrowney
04-06-10, 06:04 PM
im not sure if it been said yet but it sounds like a duff injector, i had a xe last year that had actually rebored its self. i mean a 3mm lip on the front of the bore where it had been bore washed !!!
Did a comp test today and they were all the same at 175psi, any one know how to work out the ratio of that? as Ive looked quickly on the net to no real avail, is running better now, as i DROVE it to work and back lol
You need the spec of the head too mate to work out the comp ratio... sounds about right though
scott.parker
04-06-10, 07:31 PM
It's 100% standard head (with oil/water ways sleeved)
I dont think you can work it out without taking the engine apart mate - I may be wrong though!
discoinferno
06-06-10, 10:07 AM
as long as the oil light dont come on i wouldnt worry about it to much. you have alot of pressure running through the engine, 40+psi as it is, lifters can tap if they are worn or old, its a common xe/let trait! too much oil pressure is as bad as not enough imo
as for wills comments his oil pressure is always max because he never gets it warm enough for it to drop!!!
discoinferno
06-06-10, 10:11 AM
Disagree! Above 2k rpm there is no other place that needle should be apart from max - end of.
Whilst it is probably nothing to worry about - it shouldnt be ignored!
if i am on motorway at 60-70mph in 6th at 2-2.500 rpm my oil pressure gauge reads almost 4 bar if you accelerate it will go up to around 4.5-5bar! at low revs/loads there is no need for the oil pressure to be at 60-70psi imo
as long as the light dont come on then it'll be fine, that is what the light is for, if vauxhall thought that 45psi was not enough the oil pressure switch would be set for 45psi instead i think they are set for about 20 iirc so anything above that i would deem as sufficient! the engine will soon let you know if the pressure is a problem it will spin a bearing or even throw a leg out of bed :)
scott.parker
06-06-10, 10:19 AM
Been out in the car pretty much all day yesterday, and TBF it was fine, i think the wire may have been loose to the sender for it, as i gave it a poke and it's not fluctuated since.
And lets just say 40-140-20sec is very scary after driving a 1.2 daily.. lol
discoinferno
06-06-10, 10:21 AM
Been out in the car pretty much all day yesterday, and TBF it was fine, i think the wire may have been loose to the sender for it, as i gave it a poke and it's not fluctuated since.
And lets just say 40-140-20sec is very scary after driving a 1.2 daily.. lol
now get it to daves for a good mapping session!!!
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