View Full Version : Undeclared engine, the law, and not being payed out?
MattBrown
14-04-10, 11:49 PM
After a chat with maybe 20 lads, declared, undeclared, insured, not insured, some insured but not taxed right etc.
Alot of them have had modded cars, crashed, and been payed out, with c20xe engines being the most common
Has anyone ever heard of them not paying out? Also, has anyone ever been done for it?
Is it just 6 points?
Its a really really gray area, and I feel it would be good for someone to explain totally where you/they stand etc?:thumb:
sparkie1401
14-04-10, 11:53 PM
matt dont open another can of worms
its quiet obvious, tell fibs, hide things, dont declare stuff all will be fine until you total it, cause thousands of £££££££££££££ damage or kill someone, if this happens UR FCUKED so dont do it its not big or clever
do the rest of the maths
END of TOPIC
sparkie1401
14-04-10, 11:55 PM
THE LAW
declare it or dont do it, simple bud
MattBrown
14-04-10, 11:56 PM
Thats not what im saying, I know its bad, your fked etc, but has anyone any first hand or 2nd hand experiance?
Theres aleast 2 lads on here, running bigger engines, that have crashed about 4-5 years ago, both got paid out, I was wondering what happens?
Do they have to pay the 3rd party etc?
matt, don't ask, don't expect answers.
if you are planning to do anything untoward, then don't put it on here...
its simple, when planning a mod, factor in the cost of insuring & taxing & declaring(including engineers reports), if it costs too much, then don't do it... this is why i'm playing with my nova in my forties, cos i couldn't afford to do it thru most of my thirties with my job & young family
nova_saloon
15-04-10, 12:04 AM
Well the insurnace should not of have. ive heard bad things can seriously happen, Its insurance fraud and tax avasion in the end. there are one or two people on here that havnt declared whichi is stupid and most people on ebay selling there c20xe/c20let corsa,nova,tigra. alot of them say leave it to the buyer to change. there just dumb and it is dumb. The police or anyone serious finds out, your arsehole will get stretched.
MattBrown
15-04-10, 12:04 AM
This is fukking annoying now, I am asking for the written laws?
Its not for me, as my nova is in 20000 bits in the garage, its in general
Why is it whenever someone mentions it, its like they themselves are doing it?
sparkie1401
15-04-10, 12:05 AM
im fcked etc? im what?
Don't quote me on this but now that engine conversion's are so common I would be surprised if insurance companies were still paying out on cars fitted with undeclared conversion's. I also know that around here the police are very interested in certain cars if they get pulled over. Any time I've been stopped in a Nova, I'm asked to open the bonnet for them to look.
sparkie1401
15-04-10, 12:06 AM
cos ur noit reading the replies
the law is its illegal matt
the chances of u getting away with are nil if u get pulled, have a bump etc
MattBrown
15-04-10, 12:09 AM
Forget it, Ill search the web:(
This is fukking annoying now, I am asking for the written laws?
Its not for me, as my nova is in 20000 bits in the garage, its in general
Why is it whenever someone mentions it, its like they themselves are doing it?
matt, simply change the word 'you' to the word 'anyone' on all of the above answers, and that is the law.
nobody is allowed to drive with any undeclared engine mods, or un mot'd chassis mods, if the engine has been upgraded, the insurance could be void, if the work was not mot'd, even though there could be a valid mot on the vehicle, the insurance will be void, if the tax band has altered & it is undeclared, then the vehivle is illegally taxed, etc, etc,etc
BASICALLY LET THEM KNOW EVERYTHING
if someone manage to crash a 1.2 log booked xe nova, and the garage/insurance didn't notice before paying out, then they have been very lucky...........and should keep schtum
MattBrown
15-04-10, 12:13 AM
Yes, right let me explain
Im driving along the road say, doing 29 in a 30, get pulled, pops bonnet, its a c20let for examples, then where does it go from there?
The crusher?
6 points for no insurance?
Prison?
I have never heard of it happen to anyone, thats the thing
it depends on if they are having a purge..... but it could easily be the crusher & points & fine.. driving without valid insurance can be 10 points, the fine can be 4 figures.
usually its a trip to court, which, if you've never been is a daunting day out to say the least
I've seen cars impounded as it was classed as uninsured.
sparkie1401
15-04-10, 12:18 AM
well you'll get done for no insurance
thats a fine and points on your license
the tax will not count so thats fraud, points and a fine
oh and dont un licensed vehicles get crushed, they'd have a field day with you
what is it you dont get?
Angus Closier
15-04-10, 12:18 AM
People are far far to quick to just down matts (and other peoples) necks when they start things like this. I will be of no help as for me its a grey area all i know is that i wouldnt do it! PNG could turn into the other forums if people carry on like this....its a shame people think the worst....sorry for this just starting to get at me now!
i know you are asking for the law
I DONT KNOW IT not going to pretend to
but i would think in the above situation you would have to obtain a engineers report to say it has been carryed out properly and be made to change it on the paper work provide correct proof of insureance once changed and probs get points for driving uninsured/taxed at the time of the check
well ull get done for no insurance
thats a fine and points on ur license
the tax will not count so thats fraud, points and a fine
oh and dont un licensed vehicles get crushed, they'd have a field day with you
what is it u dont get?
iirc you cannot get points for no tax they can take the car or make you tax it and pay back tax for aslong as they have proof it has been being driving on a public highway
matt is annoyed that we tried to answer it in our non legal way....
so why did he start it by saying 'i've been talking to loads of people who are driving round illegally & they got crash payouts etc.......'
it sort of set the tone from the start...
if the thread had started something like 'what is the law on undeclared modifications?' then the answers would have been differently worded
iirc you cannot get points for no tax they can take the car or make you tax it and pay back tax for aslong as they have proof it has been being driving on a public highway
we meant taxing a car deliberately in the wrong band, which is illegal
sparkie1401
15-04-10, 12:23 AM
no ones jumping down his neck im not saying he, s a tw4t but its a bit obvious the law is its not
1200cc runnin a LET is WIN WIN till something goes wrong so it doesnt take a lot of maths does it
matts a good lad and i realise hes asking a question and not stating hes done something a bit naughty
Angus Closier
15-04-10, 12:24 AM
^^^ Yeh i can see that, but if he says its not for him then take his word for it? just getting a bit unfriendly at times thats all! wish i could be more help to the actuall situation.
EDIT: btw im not having ago at anyone! Just getting a genrual vibe from png atm! seemed like a good time to have a rant! sorry!
sparkie1401
15-04-10, 12:25 AM
yes if the car is taxed as 1200 cc ie cheaper and its a 250 bhp LET then its fraud etc
sparkie1401
15-04-10, 12:26 AM
im not being unfriendly
yes im in a mood
if im coming across as an **** im sorry but im typing sense and whats really quite obvious
Not all uninsured cars get crushed, if someone comes to collect with valid insurance then it can go away but quite often they end up going to the scrap man because they end up never being collected. I think if they wanted to they could just get them crushed though.
we meant taxing a car deliberately in the wrong band, which is illegal
oh sorry i still dont think it is pointable but i could be really really wrong as i say i dont no the law i havnt studied it. i am going on what i have been told by people that know people that know people type of thing so probs not very reliable.
Angus Closier
15-04-10, 12:35 AM
im not being unfriendly
yes im in a mood
if im coming across as an **** im sorry but im typing sense and whats really quite obvious
Not a problem i can see why! I agree with everything you and others have said! Just ould have been put across a little differant!:thumb:
boyle_46
15-04-10, 12:36 AM
i assume that if you where involved in a accident and the conversion was undeclared it would make your insurance void , its not worth the risk it doesnt take much to get the paper work done , the way i look at it is it way save you a few quid at present but in the event of an accident your fcuked just declare it and save yourslef any bother .
I saw similar thing on one of these cops programs and they pulled a young kid in a saxo or clio iirc and called his insurance company from the cop car and said, btw do you know mr xxxx has fitted alloy wheels and lowered suspsension to the car, then you heard no, oh really so is the insurance void then, yes ok well we will cease the car in that case.
You wanna ask mr CREAMCRACKHEAD (http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131425&page=9) and ask him what kind of anal probing he got for crashing his non-declared XE
Not a problem i can see why! I agree with everything you and others have said! Just ould have been put across a little differant!:thumb:
So could the question though. Reviewing the thread, no one has personally attacked Matt, any time the word YOU was used, it was used in the context of 'if you do this, you will be fecked'.
If anyone came on here and said 'ive spoken to a few people who have dealt crack to schoolkids and they've never been caught, what is the actual punishment for dealing crack to kiddys?' how would that make you feel? Well its the same fecking question, just a different crime at the end of the day, regardless of the severity, and on a car forum where being legal is pretty damn important to us, not to mention the bad rep Nova's have anyway, its going to get people backs up. That thread link to MIG in another thread sums up quite nicely just how much of a dim view of it the scene has, not just PNG.
Its illegal not to declare engine changes. the punishments are irrelivant unless you are planning on taking the risk, and even more irrelivant if you were to ram an 80K Aston in an uninsured car.
So sorry if people got arsey, but it obviously struck a nerve.
EDIT
oh looky from the thread Connor posted
I hope they jail you!
What if you had have hit a member of my family!
Or my gf?
Your a tool!
Er, kind of case rested I think. Nothing subtle about that reply, lets not get all watery eyed if his replies weren't laced with velvet either ok?
I saw similar thing on one of these cops programs and they pulled a young kid in a saxo or clio iirc and called his insurance company from the cop car and said, btw do you know mr xxxx has fitted alloy wheels and lowered suspsension to the car, then you heard no, oh really so is the insurance void then, yes ok well we will cease the car in that case.
i cant understand that. if you dont declare the alloys and that you just dont get paid out for them and thats it shouldent void the insureance
General Baxter
15-04-10, 08:11 AM
how will this work then
im going to need to re-mot the car and get an enginners report, but i cant drive it there, due to the wrong tax as the dvla want a report, its not insured as they want a report, what am i suspost to do, rent a trailer for £300 to take it 5 seconds over the road, or maybe pick it up and throw it into the garage
btw this is a joke, im all sorted lol
a friend of mine had a c20xe corsa which he was driving undeclared, he managed to get away with it for a few month until someone tipped police off, he had police come round his house, he got interviewed and he then had his car crushed and was told with the next car he wants to insure he has to get a car legislation certificate (or something like that) from the police to show what engine is in the car.
and if he was ever pulled and he had done an engine conversion himself then he would be banned.
and as for the insurence, he lost that and had to fork out over £200 and the insurence group refused to insure him in future
SR-Rally
15-04-10, 09:06 AM
a lad from my town use to have few red topped nova etc. got pulled by the police and they discovered undeclared engine so had the car crushed and pretty sure he lost his liscence. (hes 23 now iirc and cant insure saxo vtr)
my old man once told me story of his friend who crashed his car which had something which voided insurance :s and killed 2 people. he lost his liscence and the fine he was given was so much he will never be able to pay it back. he'l be paying for his mistake for the rest of his life.
i don't think its a grey area at all. everything has to be declared or your gay
non declared engine conversion = void tax, void mot, void insurance.
for void tax you can get upto 6 points and £1000 fine
for void mot, vosa can prosecute you for having an unroadworthy car on the road, for which you can be heavily fined or even jailed, or have your car crushed.
for void insurance, which is called failure to declare, you can be fined upto £5000 and get a 6-36 month ban, or upto 2 years jail.
factor all 3 in and if the judge wants, you can get 2 years jail, £6k in fines and a 36 month ban. oh and they also take your car, charge £177 for a weeks storage and tow, and wont release it unless you have insurance, or a trailer to recover it.:thumb:
true example:
mr saxo has a 1.6 VTR. he also has a cituning turbo conversion. he gets tugged and mr plod realises whats under the bonnet. he gets 6 weeks jail time, and a £2k fine plus costs, and 6 points.
Simples
declare EVERYTHING= no hassle
can't afford the cost of insurance= don't build it.
dj_wudgey
15-04-10, 10:05 AM
matt dont open another can of worms
its quiet obvious, tell fibs, hide things, dont declare stuff all will be fine until you total it, cause thousands of £££££££££££££ damage or kill someone, if this happens UR FCUKED so dont do it its not big or clever
do the rest of the maths
END of TOPIC
Im with you mate! Your ****ed if you have a bad acident or hurt some one if your insurance check your car and its not how its described to be your done for!
Amusing thread lol
This is fukking annoying now, I am asking for the written laws?
Its not for me, as my nova is in 20000 bits in the garage, its in general
Why is it whenever someone mentions it, its like they themselves are doing it?
Because it sounds incredibly suspect... "oh, has anyone gotten away with it?" Its like you're testing the water to see what your chances of getting away with it are. Not saying this IS what you're doing, but you have to admit it sounds duff.
As for the law - its illegal to knowingly have incorrect information on the V5C.
You'd face the no insurance thing, which is a FPN of £200, or discretionary ban and fine up to £5,000 with 6-8 points. Plus of course they can seize and crush the vehicle. There's also the tax angle if you change brackets, so expect a minimum £1k fine, CCJ and possibility of imprisonment and again seizure and crushing of vehicle.
^^^ Yeh i can see that, but if he says its not for him then take his word for it? just getting a bit unfriendly at times thats all! wish i could be more help to the actuall situation.
EDIT: btw im not having ago at anyone! Just getting a genrual vibe from png atm! seemed like a good time to have a rant! sorry!
The problem is its a hot topic for the majority of us, who do everything legally with regards to conversions and insurance, tax etc. So when someone comes along and starts hinting that they may be looking into an undeclared conversion, it instantly riles everyone.
i cant understand that. if you dont declare the alloys and that you just dont get paid out for them and thats it shouldent void the insureance
Nope, insurance doesn't work like that. Its all based on risk - for example, imagine 10 bog standard novas all parked in a line, one with bling wheels. Which one is most likely to be targetted by a thief? Which one is most likely to be owned by the young lad who goes down tescos car park and drives round with the hand brake on? Etc.
how will this work then
im going to need to re-mot the car and get an enginners report, but i cant drive it there, due to the wrong tax as the dvla want a report, its not insured as they want a report, what am i suspost to do, rent a trailer for £300 to take it 5 seconds over the road, or maybe pick it up and throw it into the garage
btw this is a joke, im all sorted lol
AA or RAC vehicle inspection, they'd come to you for that :p
true example:
mr saxo has a 1.6 VTR. he also has a cituning turbo conversion. he gets tugged and mr plod realises whats under the bonnet. he gets 6 weeks jail time, and a £2k fine plus costs, and 6 points.
Explain to me how he got jail time? As failure to declare is NOT a prisonable offence. The only other one that could get you a seat in the clink, the tax one, is of no concern as a blower won't affect the taxation.
Bottom line is, its not worth the risk. You could stab someone in the face one day, and there's a chance you could get away with it, but you don't do that do you lol
You could stab someone in the face one day, and there's a chance you could get away with it, but you don't do that do you lol
Made me laugh, but its so true, you may be able to get away with it but its up to you to take the risk. one day you'll get caught out :cool:
dj_wudgey
15-04-10, 10:27 AM
im with jack on this a few mates do it and it gets my back up but its not worth the risks in my opinion!
No tax is a civil/HMRC matter, and you DONT want to get on the wrong side of HMRC. If they get a wiff that you arent playing ball for whatever reason they will make your life hell in other circles than just cars.
Matt, dont be a bender (well try not to be more of a bender than you already are)
"my mates do it so it must be fine for me to do it" is NOT a good defence for what you might/might not be planning to do
In a nutshell, the police can, and usually do rape you. My mate had a corsa with a 250 bhp LET, fair enough he was racing a county mounty down the motorway (and the mounty couldn't keep up in his 5 serieslol lol lol ) but his car ended up crushed.
It was taxed as a 1.0L, still on the logbook as a 1.0L but he did have trade insurance so was kind of covered:roll: :d . He was done for failing to stop, speeding, tax evasion, ect. He got 6 months JAIL and here's a pic of his car
He never even got to get his CD's out the glovebox or his sat nav off the screen!
P.S, the copper was proper fuming he couldn't keep up with a 1.0L corsa!lol lol lol
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u324/adam_den/DSC00497.jpg
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u324/adam_den/n722256442_2326770_5262894.jpg
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u324/adam_den/n722256442_2326768_2423476.jpg
MattBrown
15-04-10, 11:24 AM
non declared engine conversion = void tax, void mot, void insurance.
for void tax you can get upto 6 points and £1000 fine
for void mot, vosa can prosecute you for having an unroadworthy car on the road, for which you can be heavily fined or even jailed, or have your car crushed.
for void insurance, which is called failure to declare, you can be fined upto £5000 and get a 6-36 month ban, or upto 2 years jail.
factor all 3 in and if the judge wants, you can get 2 years jail, £6k in fines and a 36 month ban. oh and they also take your car, charge £177 for a weeks storage and tow, and wont release it unless you have insurance, or a trailer to recover it.:thumb:
true example:
mr saxo has a 1.6 VTR. he also has a cituning turbo conversion. he gets tugged and mr plod realises whats under the bonnet. he gets 6 weeks jail time, and a £2k fine plus costs, and 6 points.
Cheers fella,. exactly what i was after:thumb:
brainsnova
15-04-10, 11:26 AM
if you havent declared an engine change its worth buying the reg from dvla V1 OSA as it wil be there car soon.
MattBrown
15-04-10, 11:27 AM
Its a common thing, especcially around here, (Not me)
But it just needs to be clarified, as people seem to say 100 differant things.
"If its stolen, then will only replace with standard"
"If you crash they only pay the 3rd party"
"No insurance"
"prison"
"nothing"
ETC...
MattBrown
15-04-10, 11:30 AM
I saw similar thing on one of these cops programs and they pulled a young kid in a saxo or clio iirc and called his insurance company from the cop car and said, btw do you know mr xxxx has fitted alloy wheels and lowered suspsension to the car, then you heard no, oh really so is the insurance void then, yes ok well we will cease the car in that case.
Again, this is a really gray area, some say, "Its not insured if stolen" Some then say, "Its not insured full stop"
So what is it?
tbh its not one of things you need to know why.... its the law, any who "got away with it" were lucky or in the times when payout money wasnt such a tightly controlled thing as it is these days
Lots (most) insurance companies will only replace whats damaged with OEM even if you declare the mods (VX folks have found that out after having an incident with a fully declared set of mods and getting the car back with alloys replaced with STD etc).
If you dont want people accusing you of doing illegal activities (note the forum rules you agreed to abide by) then THINK a bit before you post things and word it properly..... as Lee demonstrated by changing the 'crime' to selling crack but leaving the rest of the text the same.
If you REALLY want to know, call an insurance company (or read a policy document, not the certificate), call DVLA/VOSA, call teh police.... get it from them. Forum heresay regarding law is vauge at best.
MattBrown
15-04-10, 11:43 AM
If you REALLY want to know, call an insurance company (or read a policy document, not the certificate), call DVLA/VOSA, call teh police.... get it from them. Forum heresay regarding law is vauge at best.
Yeah, was trying to explain to a lad what could happen to him.
But ok.
Im bad:(
Yeah, was trying to explain to a lad what could happen to him.
lol lol lol of course you were, nevermind.
Its a common thing, especcially around here, (Not me)
But it just needs to be clarified, as people seem to say 100 differant things.
"If its stolen, then will only replace with standard"
This is down to the insurance company and police to be honest. The insurance company may offer you an extra £xyz and agree to cover you; or they may just withdraw cover. Things like undeclared engine conversions are likely to fall into the latter category, and the police may push for a prosecution (EDIT: it is written into law that if the policyholder hasn't disclosed a "material fact" or represented a "fact which was false" - e.g. saying the car is a 1.0 when its a 2.0 - the insurance company are required to pay no sum)
"If you crash they only pay the 3rd party"
No, either your insurance is valid or its not. No half measures.
"No insurance"
See first reply
"prison"
You won't get prison for no insurance, end of (a quick google search will tell you the penalties for driving with no insurance). It just simply won't happen. HOWEVER, you may get prison for the tax shenanigans, or if the police catch you on a dangerous driving charge.
"nothing"
In some cases, yes people do get away with it. But as said previously, would you really want to risk it?
ETC...
Does that help? The law is actually quite complex so we're saving you the job of having to read and probably misunderstand it lol
alloys replaced with STD
I'd be disappointed if I had my alloys replaced with chlamydia :( lol
I'd be disappointed if I had my alloys replaced with chlamydia :( lol
FLOL lol
MattBrown
15-04-10, 01:40 PM
lol lol lol of course you were, nevermind.
Yeah I was?
Its so strange this placelol
Yeah I was?
Its so strange this placelol
png awards 2009
FLAMING KEYBOARD-Matt Brown
MattBrown
15-04-10, 02:54 PM
png awards 2009
FLAMING KEYBOARD-Matt Brown
Lol, I asked a question, and the person you seem to all rip the **** out of, then gave me the perfect answer!
Cheers sloth:thumb:
matt, next time you have a mechanical problem, try a legal website & see what response you get
anyway, all these mates of yours seem convinced it is fine to do it and doesn't harm anyone......i wonder what their view is on paedophiles
What happens if you pay 2.0 tax and pay 1.4 insurance, do they still rape you? (no homo)
Lol, I asked a question, and the person you seem to all rip the **** out of, then gave me the perfect answer!
Albeit a wrong one lol
Matt, its just how the question came across.
Nothing against you, i would of thought the same no matter who posted this thread, but i read it as:
"Ive spoke to a load of people with un-declared conversions, they say theyve had no issues and have even been paid out when theyve written it off.
So because im young and declaring everything is going to bring me some money pain, im thinking of doing this on mine too and risking it. Whats the worse that could happen to me?"
Just how the whole thread came across to me, whether its the case or not.
Insurance fraud carries a custodial sentence & hefty as fook fine. (£10k max enforced CCJ IIRC?)
Evading Tax, of any kind is theft from the Goverment. An you really REALLY dont want to fcuk about with them TBH.
Insurance fraud carries a custodial sentence & hefty as fook fine. (£10k max enforced CCJ IIRC?)
Evading Tax, of any kind is theft from the Goverment. An you really REALLY dont want to fcuk about with them TBH.
hence how mr saxo got jail time. :roll: :p
What happens if you pay 2.0 tax and pay 1.4 insurance, do they still rape you? (no homo)
yes, as its failure to declare a mod, therefore your insurance is null and void. :thumb:
oh and be carefull re: mods. my uncle works for a national body shop chain, they recently kicked a 12k claim for damage to a porsce out for having a non standard air filter. nothing else.:eek:
oh and be carefull re: mods. my uncle works for a national body shop chain, they recently kicked a 12k claim for damage to a porsce out for having a non standard air filter. nothing else.:eek:
Damage?
hence how mr saxo got jail time. :roll: :p
Yea i see it now lol ive just read the whole thread an not first page lol lol
The way i see it is, yeah go for it...if your fcuking stupid & retarded!! But run into my car or anyone i know & ill come burn light you up like the @unt you are (not directed at Matt, directed at peoples with illegal mods)
IMHO they should do here what they do in America....Illegal mod, viod insurance......
http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/ap/e27d6fb4-91d5-4215-bcd5-e87bb451c41c.hlarge.jpg
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site203/2007/0620/20070620_114311_062107_crushedCT.jpg
They do it PROPERLY!
what a load of sh1t.Anyone with half a brain cell knows what happens if you do it.And tbh i dont give a fukk what anyone says,if your asking the question,to me,that says the thoughts there for doing it yourself.Why else would you ask???
If your really that interested,why not ring a solicitor??? Instead of posting on a forum where noone is qualified in law (that i know of)
Damage?
yeah, it had 12k of damage, and they told him to go forth and multiply due to his snazzy air filter...
blue_peg_16v
15-04-10, 04:43 PM
i totaly agree andy hence i havent comented till now due to the stupid nature of the question
oh, I thought 12K's worth of damage had occured DUE to the non OE air filter lol
blue_peg_16v
15-04-10, 04:47 PM
tbf i can believe that i had a mate with a full body kit 19s etc on a mk4 astra but he didnt declair his stereo and mirrors and aviva as it is now refused to pay out and the car was fecked all interior burnt total right off
also i used to regularly declair policies void in my old job, the main reson not being mods but being people insuring cars in there parents name and saying its the parents car, this is fround on just as much as none declaration, and you would be suprised how dumb people can be when you ask them the simples of questions about the car, my favorite 2 were when did you last drive the car how often does your son drive the car and you could almost guarentee too get um ar cant remember when i last drove it but my son drives it all the time, sorry your insurance is void as you are not the main user, the obvious ones were hot hatches.
also with the old company we used to send people to major shows to take pictures then run the reg number to check mods tracks and donny were favorites so many canceled policies, insurance companies want rid of none declaration as the people who dont declaire are the more likly to have an accident, as people who moddify and declaire are aware of the higher premium so more likely to take care of the car were as none declaration dont give a feck
Insurance fraud carries a custodial sentence & hefty as fook fine. (£10k max enforced CCJ IIRC?)
True, but you're not thinking in motoring terms. Insurance fraud would be a criminal conviction, not a motoring conviction; comparitively, its a lot easier for the courts to whack a ban & fine on you than get a proper criminal court conviction (so, if the fuzz decided to put you away for no insurance or whatever, they'd need to sling you up in front of a jury. The "I bought it like that guv, I'm no mechanic so I don't know what an engine is supposed to look like guv" defence would work extremely well in this situation). Bear in mind as well the insurance company would probably just withdraw cover, so effectively you wouldn't have obtained insurance by deception as it was withdrawn or nullified thus leaving you with no cover.
brainsnova
15-04-10, 04:50 PM
if you dont declare an engine change etc you insurance is void and no insurance means car impounded and all is clear on my insurance policy paperwork.
http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u331/Brain_missing/mypolicy003.jpg
ive got a mate with an undeclared c20xe.... lol, no but really, im just curious, dont worry i havent got a nova on the road so im not up to anything, but in a court of law, can the CPS prove beyond all reasonable doubt that mr fred perry was unaware of an engine change on purchase of said vehicle and therefore was unaware of proceedings for log book changes and tax/insurance?? now obviously it would take an imbread simpleton to realise theres an extra 90 horses at your foot but how could this be proved? Im assuming the former keeper will be contacted for a statement? let me just stress again, I AM NOT GOING TO INSURE MY NOVA ILLEGALLY IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM, MY INSURANCE WILL BE NOTIFIED ABOUT EVERY MODIFICATION!:thumb:
blue_peg_16v
15-04-10, 06:53 PM
insurance wouldnt need to prove you knew, they would just void it, thats when the police would prosicute for no insurance, insurance companies see it as your responsibility to know about mods and check the vehicle, thats like asking if its ok to drive on bald tyres because you didnt know to check you would still get raped and its your responsibility to make sure the car is fit for purpose so valid mot tax and insurance
what a load of sh1t.Anyone with half a brain cell knows what happens if you do it.And tbh i dont give a fukk what anyone says,if your asking the question,to me,that says the thoughts there for doing it yourself.Why else would you ask???
If your really that interested,why not ring a solicitor??? Instead of posting on a forum where noone is qualified in law (that i know of)
Top response!
A friends friend had a Nova, engine change lowered 17" rims and a few other bits. He always said an insurance assessor wouldn't know about the changes he'd made as you know "what do they know? Some old guy that works in an office"
He crashed it in to the side of some one, their passenger was hurt in the crash.
The police took both cars away from the scene, the insurance went to view the car.
Where they found the mods, none of which where declared. As the car was registers as a 2lt. So he had no insurance, which ment the Tax wasn't right legal either.
He got banned for 2 years and had to be re tested, he was fined over 5k and got 4 months inside. All because he didn't wanna pay the 1k to insure the car cause he was 18-19 with a modded Nova.
When he could drive again, he was quoted 3 and a half k to insure a std 1lt F reg Nova. He learnt the very hard way.
I know the assessor that looked at the car (from working in the bodyshop)
He spent 22years as a paint sprayer.. And is really in to his cars.
I declared everything on mine, even down to things like the lighting patten on my rear lights being modded. It isn't worth the risk.
insurance wouldnt need to prove you knew, they would just void it, thats when the police would prosicute for no insurance, insurance companies see it as your responsibility to know about mods and check the vehicle, thats like asking if its ok to drive on bald tyres because you didnt know to check you would still get raped and its your responsibility to make sure the car is fit for purpose so valid mot tax and insurance
Yeah, but I'm talking about the police prosecuting for the criminal conviction of insurance fraud, not the motoring conviction of driving without insurance
In Benn's example, I'd wager the queen's holiday was given out under a dangerous driving conviction (which DOES carry a prison term), not an insurance conviction.
blue_peg_16v
15-04-10, 08:07 PM
Yeah, but I'm talking about the police prosecuting for the criminal conviction of insurance fraud, not the motoring conviction of driving without insurance
In Benn's example, I'd wager the queen's holiday was given out under a dangerous driving conviction (which DOES carry a prison term), not an insurance conviction.
i was replying to mr5050 mate
Jon_nova1
15-04-10, 08:21 PM
You'll only be tried on the law that gives the harshest punishment they can get a guilty verdict on, they won't even bother with most of the smaller laws you'll be breaking
I know this because i got caught speeding years ago, but was arrested for a different car related activity as it carried a harsher punishment, and no it wasn't undeclared mods lol
You'll only be tried on the law that gives the harshest punishment they can get a guilty verdict on, they won't even bother with most of the smaller laws you'll be breaking
I know this because i got caught speeding years ago, but was arrested for a different car related activity as it carried a harsher punishment, and no it wasn't undeclared mods lol
what activity was that??
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