View Full Version : Rear anti roll bar options
Just after some info on what my options are as far as rear antiroll bars go, is there a whiteline rarb for nova?, was there any models that came as standrd with rear bar? is there anything that can be retro fitted?
Cheers
Ryan :tard:
vaughanmc
29-03-10, 06:18 PM
GTE. GSi, SRi and TD all had the thickest rear ARB on a Nova as standard mate :)
craig green
29-03-10, 06:22 PM
The std ARB is a flat bar that relys on a bolt through either end to keep it in place. People have been adding Cav SRi ones maybe & perhaps a Corsa fitment whiteline ARB.
vaughanmc
29-03-10, 06:25 PM
Big question - Does a standard one work to begin with ?
anyone got any pics of the standard setups and cav, corsa ones fitted? does the flat bar type work well? i fitted a whiteline one to my mk4 astra and it is probably the best thing ive done to it, its the u shape setup that bolts to either end of the beam and follows it around.
interesting idea, retro fitting/custom made one thats similar to the whiteline ones
subscribed
could it be a posibility to make something? could maybe 15mm bar be bent to a shape to fit or would it have to be a sprung metal?
im, going fitting a cav one to mine, dont no how effective itll be but it cant hurt!
in principle the std one works yes.
You can use a Cav SRi rear ARB but need to weld all the bracketry to the Nova beam. (apprently you can anyway, ive seen pics but never personally done it).
Whiteline dont make rear ARB's for Nova's, only Corsa's (no, Corsa ones dont fit either)
H&R used to make Nova adjustable rear ARB's, ive only ever seen 2, one of which sold on eBay for nearly £200, the other was on a rally I helped to build.
Other then that, your pretty limited chap.
DaveB has a Cav one on his Corsa, If you can measure a Nova rear beam, it might work. Cav ARB is 120cm.
Pics of his, Hope he dont mind ;)
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l44/davebteg/Corsa/IMAG0395.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l44/davebteg/Corsa/IMAG0396.jpg
craig green
29-03-10, 07:31 PM
I actually liked the feel of my mk1 1.2L without the rear (or fr) ARB's.
I've got a astra gte arb on mine, but IMO not worth doing cos all it does is stop the beam twisting, as they are not fixed between the chassis and suspension the do not eliminate body roll
vaughanmc
29-03-10, 07:48 PM
I put a Saloon one on for piece of mind - Was the only one I could get from a scrappy at the time
And I'll likely put a thicker GTE/GSi item in the Mk1 back beam as well :)
vaughanmc
29-03-10, 07:48 PM
Edit - Double post!
Corsa is alot wider, i tried to fit a whiteline rear one (for a corsa) on to mine.. Was no chance. Am gonna try a cav one..
ARB is well worth doing IMO. The rear beams DO flex a lot.
Body roll isnt killed no, but in thery it helps, That is more down to the soft springs though. Hence track people run very very stiff rear springs.
DaveB has a Cav one on his Corsa, If you can measure a Nova rear beam, it might work. Cav ARB is 120cm.
Pics of his, Hope he dont mind ;)
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l44/davebteg/Corsa/IMAG0395.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l44/davebteg/Corsa/IMAG0396.jpg
this looks a good idea, but theres got to be a better way of securing the middle of it. maybe weld a flat plate across the middle of the beam so the bush can sit on, have the plate protruding out of the beam about an inch and then use some proper ARB clamps to bolt that to the beam. if anybody understands that.
Yeah, dave himself said it needs doing proper. Im going to do the same mod and plan to use the same exhaust clamps but also use a proper ARB U shape thingy.
when i fitted my rear one i loved it,
deffo felt the improvment
Christ I can't even remember how mine looks lol I know it is double bolted at each end but is not fixed in the middle, don't think the astra had it fixed in the centre either.
I've got a astra gte arb on mine, but IMO not worth doing cos all it does is stop the beam twisting, as they are not fixed between the chassis and suspension the do not eliminate body roll
It's a straight beam suspended from 2 points in the chassis, if it's entirely solid it will completely eliminate body roll until you start tipping one wheel off the ground.
Yeah, dave himself said it needs doing proper. Im going to do the same mod and plan to use the same exhaust clamps but also use a proper ARB U shape thingy.
would you still use the nova one aswell?
It's a straight beam suspended from 2 points in the chassis, if it's entirely solid it will completely eliminate body roll until you start tipping one wheel off the ground.
have you had this done on your car? Have you driven a car with a second arb fitted everyday for 4 years? Have you driven a car with this mod on a track?
I have! It's on my car and it's my opinion it's not needed
This poor picture shows that mine is not fixed at the centre
http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy181/Bazil_2468/2b013.jpg
have you had this done on your car? Have you driven a car with a second arb fitted everyday for 4 years? Have you driven a car with this mod on a track?
I have! It's on my car and it's my opinion it's not needed
This poor picture shows that mine is not fixed at the centre
Been done on my car and made a noticeable improvement, if you like I'm sure I could email you my course notes on this particular setup and why/how the setup affects it's roll characteristics?
If you could that would be great, my email link is avalible on my profile page.
What arb did you use? Did you fit bushes or just bolt it on like the astra? Did your beam have nylon bushes? What suspension do you run?
As said mine was astra with 40mm gmax springs and standard shocks ( pretty poor set up )
The Cav arb is similar to the corsa whiteline so it wont fit, the holes on either side on a corsa beam is 116mm but 110 on the nova.
The only other option i can think of is this:
http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/other-mechanical-electrical/426063-nova-extra-rear-anti-roll-bar.html
pretty sure it was on 60mm drop springs at the time, but later 100mm drop (wasn't actually this low as theres nothing in the ass end of it) had a bush in it but really didn't expect it to do much as it was funked lol It would be most noticeable on a standard setup tbh, slowly getting less noticeable as the springs get harder as the roll resistance would be less from the ARB and more from the springs as they get harder.
I'm moving to coilovers so there will be more chance of the beam twisting so I'll keep the second arb in place to help out as the weight and stress will now be on the strutt mounts of the beam and that's where my plates are welded and where the arb is bolted to.
some good ideas on here, the saab or mk3 gsi one looks like a good way of fitting one, maybe worth haveing a look round a scrap yard at the different setups on cars and seeing what mite fit. cav one mite be worth looking at even if the hole centres are off, could be posible to make brackets or something.
vaughanmc
29-03-10, 09:25 PM
I had an idea but I've never posted it due to thinking it's completely daft and have no idea whether it would work
So here goes;
You know how a Nova back beam is like this sort of shape ( ^ ) if you look at it in a cross section view...?
Well instead of having a R-ARB I thought why not weld a plate of similar thickness as the beam itself right along the length of the beam thus making it a triangular-prism shape ?
Not too sure if that would work - If folk would like me to draw a quick/rough diagram I can
Might be a completely and utterly stupid idea and never work in a million years but worth a post to see...
I have a Cavalier rear ARB I am going to test out on my Nova when it's done.
I had an idea but I've never posted it due to thinking it's completely daft and have no idea whether it would work
So here goes;
You know how a Nova back beam is like this sort of shape ( ^ ) if you look at it in a cross section view...?
Well instead of having a R-ARB I thought why not weld a plate of similar thickness as the beam itself right along the length of the beam thus making it a triangular-prism shape ?
Not too sure if that would work - If folk would like me to draw a quick/rough diagram I can
Might be a completely and utterly stupid idea and never work in a million years but worth a post to see...
Like this?
i had thought about doing something similar to the pic above but thought going from point to point like that would be too stiff as the beam needs to flex a bit.
lol lol you cant just use any type of steel bar as an ARB lol lol anti roll bars are sprung steel for a reason you know!
Took it off after 2days and sold it off lol
I was wondering if anyone can make a whiteline replica for the nova on this forum, there is quite a few members handy with tools, would need a bending machine basically and rest is easy
\___/
A steel bar will just bend and not "spring" back (how a arb works.....)
I'm going to experiment with my Nova beam in the future, will be putting another standard arb under the one that is in already, not sure if it'll make any difference
yayoboy
29-03-10, 10:06 PM
i have a pov spec 1.0 rear axle on mine, would a gte/gsi etc arb fit straight on? or is there drilling/cutting involved and will it make an improvement? cheers
vaughanmc
29-03-10, 10:06 PM
Mieren - This is what I was meaning - Tried to show it as best I can with these 2 pics lol
Excuse the 3 year old looking drawing in Paint:
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g191/vaughanmc/BeamMod.jpg
Illustrated on a real picture of a back beam:
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g191/vaughanmc/NovaRebuild12.jpg
Hope this helps - Just wonder if it would work...?
You need the beam to flex, you cannot have it completely solid or it will just be terrible to drive and more than likely crack.
vaughanmc
29-03-10, 10:09 PM
Ahh right - I don't know much about suspension or beams etc
Just thought it would be more effective than the standard R-ARB
Scrap my idea then lol
A steel bar will just bend and not "spring" back (how a arb works.....)
Depends a lot on the dimensions of it all and specific material, every material has a certain amount of 'spring' to it and you'd be surprised how far even reasonably high carbon content steels can bend and go back to their original shape.
Most people are not used to thinking about thick/strong sections of steel bending/stretching and returning to shape, for example conrods actually stretch in use enough to lift the top of the bearing away from the crank shaft at high rpm.
vaughanmc i get what you mean now, its totally different to what I did to my corsa beam.
the idea is a bit similar to the strengthening plates peoples weld onto their front suspension arms
vaughanmc
29-03-10, 10:18 PM
Just an idea I had for never years but never shared it with anyone until I seen this thread...Seems like it's no going to work
if a std one isn't enough, then simply bolt another on under the first one with longer bolts.....
Had a mate building a let Nova, well he did. Was set up at XS racing..
They fitted a funking huge bar thru the beam.. Couldn't get my fingers in around it.. Sure he said the rear end was tight as.
craig green
30-03-10, 12:07 AM
Most people are not used to thinking about thick/strong sections of steel bending/stretching and returning to shape, for example conrods actually stretch in use enough to lift the top of the bearing away from the crank shaft at high rpm.
Been reading today have we? lol
Been reading today have we? lol
Nope, I go to a university, teaches me things and stuff :) When it's about engines or suspension I remember it lol
Problem is if you make it to stiff the wheels will skip over the bumps when going round a corner rather than just having the flex in the beam to follow the ground that the car is riding over!
It all depends on youre driving style, where youre using the car, what suspension you have to determine how stiff the roll bars need to be!! Its no good having a race car stiff car to use everyday on the road as it will be horrible to drive on our pothole wrecked roads!!
Pilbeam used to do a bladed anti roll bar that could be adjusted for different use which was fitted to the car, but are now no longer made and are very expensive when they pop up for sale. The H&R roll bars are very good if you can find one second hand (as mentioned before), as my mate has one on his track nova, still gives a bit flex but not so much as to make it solid!
I have a corsa whiteline on mine
any pics paul, did you have to make many alterations?
I have a corsa whiteline on mine
how?
it was on there when i bought it pics to follow
Sure we talked about this before Paul.. Didn't think it was a Corsa one..
oh, i got told it was, i have no idea what its off, but it aint standard
Sure after seeing the pic i thought it was maybe Cav...
i may stand corrected then...
it was on there when i bought it pics to follow
Is it this?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v14/lashednova/DSC04753.jpg
Doesn't look like a whiteline to me and usually arbs go under the beam but yours seems to go by the side of it
yeh thats it, as I say i have no idea what they even look like...
whiteline fits like this
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5417/beamcompletejh5.jpg
BrianBB
03-04-10, 10:06 AM
does anyone know what the thickness of the cav gsi and nova gte/gsi arb's?
Nova Gsi rear is 22/23 mm iirc.
18 mm on Nova gsi and gte.
BrianBB
04-04-10, 09:05 PM
how about a cav gsi one?
how about a cav gsi one?
duno mate, never had a cavalier.
yayoboy
05-04-10, 09:17 PM
could you not just get a length of sprung steel bar, and make your own?
could you not just get a length of sprung steel bar, and make your own?
Yeah peice of piss, but getting Sprung steel aint very easy :(
could you not just get a length of sprung steel bar, and make your own?
That's what a friends had after XS racing set it up.
the rear end is pretty tight with a std arb. like I have already said, simply bolt on another one if you want it stiffer, but i don't think it will improve it for road use, maybe on a track, but not on the road.
remember, for road use, some body roll is a good idea, it tells you where the limits it. on a track, the tyres produce way more grip & it could cope with less body roll, but the front needs it more. and you could easily fit a second arb to the front, simply by making up some clamps
That's what a friends had after XS racing set it up.
Only thing with buying random sprung steel is you cant just buy any old Sprung bar. Its elasticity rates depends on how much percentage of silicon/magnesium/carbon is in it.
Less of one compound an more of another results in massivly different properties & flexible rates. If that makes any sense to anyone lol
No clue on that, but you couldn't get a finger in down the side of the bar in the beam...
No clue on that, but you couldn't get a finger in down the side of the bar in the beam...
28mm+ then? Must be some right weight in that then if its as big as i imagine :S kinda outweights the pro's IMO
Must of been, was huge. But i dont know if it was a solid tube.. Then again it must of been to work..
Must of been, was huge. But i dont know if it was a solid tube.. Then again it must of been to work..
Yeah would have to be a solid bar. Im not saying like "dont do it", far from it in fact, just obviously the unsprung weights invovled could end up well over 6kg (standard GTE 18mm ARB is approx 3.5kg) then add to that any possibiliy of rear disc weight (this is why VW rear disc conversions are better - alloy calipers & lighter discs :thumb: ) you could end up with a substantial weight gain IMO.
Didn't think of the weight involved.
Didn't think of the weight involved.
Understandable as its never in the forefront of anyones mind *really*, just its a by product when trying to improve things like.
Like i said tho, im not saying dont do it, just pointing out the cons as oppose to a thread comprised of a lot of over indulged but *possibly* un-thoughtout pros lol lol
EDIT: Must say tho, just re-read the whole thread & it makes for a really good read actually!!
Then again to little weight and it will skip.. So a bit of iron would help..lol
daverobson
05-04-10, 10:57 PM
EDIT: Must say tho, just re-read the whole thread & it makes for a really good read actually!!
agreed :)
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