View Full Version : XE non start...
Right guys got an interesting one to run by you all..
Did an engine swap with my mate this weekend just gone, xev out of a vectra supertourer and inserted an xe.
Now all the mechanical stuffs are done and dusted, we have the relay all plugged in and all the wires identified and sorted using the xev plug.
We have one odd twin core wire coming out of the fuel rail that doesnt appear to go to anywhere as its snapped off, now were not sure what that is but thats not the main concern, it will fire over but there is no spark and no fuel at the rail.
Live wire to the fuel pump and we get fuel but still no spark, we have had suggested crank sensor as a probable culprit, but what im needing to know is, will a crank sensor stop the fuel and spark if its not working?
If anyone fancies having a nosey at the swap and what we got up to, there on vvoc is here (http://www.vvoc.com/forum/showthread.php?t=305557).
Cheers for any help and advice peeps:thumb:
Yes it will stop fuel and spark.
The two wires you describe as broken sound like the ecu earths that bolt onto the rail, which would explain it not running!!!
The two wires you describe as broken sound like the ecu earths that bolt onto the rail, which would explain it not running!!!
Its one single black wire with two cores in it, my mates tested them and theyre +ve though :tard:
sounds ike your missing a permanent or switched feed to the ecu. if you put a 12v feed to pin 18 does it make a difference?. if you find a pic of the ecu connector i can tell you which other wires power it up.
Ecu feed is there as we had it to the wrong terminal on the battery originally lol
Ecu light comes on with the dash lights now so we know thats working:thumb:
Do you know where the wire is coming from?
What loom is it? Does it have a engine to car loom plug in the engine bay, or is it in the footwell???
Not too sure what the loom is from, calibra dispack iirc, the wire comes out of the fuel rail wiring near the left hand side as you look at the engine, link works andy??
Sounds like the ecu ignition live to me! Thats right where mine comes out, by the dispak
Its at the left side of the fuel rail though adam, cambelt end, ecu should be working as the telltale comes on with ignition?
have to be registered to see link spud
Its at the left side of the fuel rail though adam, cambelt end, ecu should be working as the telltale comes on with ignition?
Oh right.
Hmm
Got a pic?
Unfortunately not as we packed up a few hours ago when it got dark, ill get a pic of it tomorrow bud, im sure he tested it and it holds 8v while cranking?
Didnt know about having to be registered, thought their forums were viewable sorry peeps!
Right the wire i was on about, is black and has two cores and comes out from the fuel rail wiring loom, should both of these cores be connected to earth as the place that supplied the engine said thats definately earth, its a normal core with a copper sheath around it, inside a black outer, we have earther this to the fuel rail as a few people have told us to do, we still have no spark and no fuel, we have tried another crank sensor but cannot guarrantee that its a good one as the loom to it has been shredded so were not sure if its a good one or not:cry:
Are the crank sensors from a 2.0 8v the same as an XE does anyone know?
Yeh connect both them cores to earth it should start, 8V crank sensor is different
Twin core wires are normally sensors. What I would do here is grab a haynes manual, open up the multiplug that connects to the ECU, and buzz the wire out to find out where it connects to, and cross reference it on the wiring diagram on the haynes. i would stop randomly earthing it or connecting it to power until you know what it is, you could easily blow something in the ECU
You say you're getting no spark or fuel, but the pump will work when you wire it up to +ve? Is the fuel pump relay clicking when you switch on the ignition?
Yes fuel pump relay clicks when we turn the ignition on Lee and we can get fuel to the rail when we live the fuel pump wire to the battery, we have had a known working crank sensor on it now and it still doesnt want to fire up, were running out of ideas to try now though, need to see if anyone local has a haynes for an XE methinks lol
ST-eater
25-03-10, 12:30 AM
Is it coil and dizzy, if so check the dizzy's hall sensor.. this stopped one of my previous xe's firing up, would just turn over and over.
Its a dispak one and we have checked and cleaned up the hall sensor already bud, but cheers:thumb:
brainsnova
25-03-10, 01:19 AM
ive got a haynes but not local lol
Can you see what colour the wires are that are cut off????
(Ive got my dispak xe loom off the car atm so can check the plug/wires for you, but the wire you describe doesnt ring a bell to me, it sounds like a crank sensor cable, but that runs seperate from the main injector loom)
Have you got all the earths on the fuel rail? if it isnt an earth itself(the cutoff wires)
It should fire up without the camsensor, so thats ok...
its def a sensor wire, sheilded wire like you describe. is it tps? do you want me to have a look mate? i can see if i can find my haynes...
its def a sensor wire, sheilded wire like you describe. is it tps? do you want me to have a look mate? i can see if i can find my haynes...
Wont be TPS, thats a 3 or 4 pin plug.
he says its broken tho???? pics needed methinks
Ill get a pic of it tomorrow as its too dark now and he has packed up for the day, its not TPS and its not the crank sensor wire as we have that round the back of the block.
We have looked at the wiring on a local corsa xe and we have the coloured wires in the main engine loom correct as these are colour for colour on the vectra loom, other than this snapped wire which we now have earthed to the fuel rail we have everything as it should be, yet it still wont fire, we have a known working crank sensor, we have tested the ecu, dispak, hall sensor, maf, we simply cannot think what is missing!
he says its broken tho???? pics needed methinks
Yeah, he says it a twin core cable, in which case it wont attach to a plug with 4 pins.
true. my bad. pics tato...
Ill get a pic of it tomorrow as its too dark now and he has packed up for the day, its not TPS and its not the crank sensor wire as we have that round the back of the block.
We have looked at the wiring on a local corsa xe and we have the coloured wires in the main engine loom correct as these are colour for colour on the vectra loom, other than this snapped wire which we now have earthed to the fuel rail we have everything as it should be, yet it still wont fire, we have a known working crank sensor, we have tested the ecu, dispak, hall sensor, maf, we simply cannot think what is missing!
Spud, why do you have your crank sensor wiring at the back :confused:
Spud, why do you have your crank sensor wiring at the back :confused:
Well it comes out of the main loom but up nearer the back due to how we have routed the main loom, its connected properly and in the correct location at the front of the block.
ok cool. get a pic tommorow!
Right pics as promised...
This pic shows where the main loom goes into the fuel rail wiring holder, it was coming back out of the fuel rail through the right hand rubber boot which is the main loom into the fuel rail...
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a36/spudly01/Cars/DSC04246.jpg
We have pulled it back through and you can see it coming from the main feed..
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a36/spudly01/Cars/DSC04248.jpg
We have moved/twisted up the outer sheath of wire to the left in this pic, the inner core is brown with a white trace..
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a36/spudly01/Cars/DSC04247.jpg
Both wires test as earths with a multi-meter so are they definately fuel rail and ecu earths?
Oh and this is the beasty we are trying to fit it into lol
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a36/spudly01/Cars/DSC04249.jpg
That looks horribly like one of the feeds to the coil pack!
Buzz it back to the ECu plug and get the pin number, then someone with a haynes can tell you where the hell its supposed to go. (I suggest you ask Jack, he's a whizz with wiring diagrams)
Both wires test as earths with a multi-meter so are they definately fuel rail and ecu earths?
No, your doing it wrong lol. if the wires buzz out as earths, why would they need to be earthed? It just means the circuitry the wire is connected to in the ECU is currently to ground. This also beefs up my guess its a sheared off coilpack wire
i have a haynes to hand now on the wire page
Well my mate is a sparky so im only going on what he says they test out as, cos im no good with multi-meters and suchlike lol
Where abouts would that actually connect to then Andy as we have our hall sensor plugged in and the plug for that seems fine and all present and correct?
ignore that post,read it wrong,if you can get the pin number i can tell you
Ive text him now but no reply the lazy sod, he is probably under his mrs right now lol
andy. what is pin 10 connected to? the picture ive got doesnt show it
that shows it going to nowt?? and says its brown with grey trace??
yes ive found white and grey traces can look alot alike. im just going off the fact there are only two shielded single wires. the knock sensor on one pin 11 and this other one on pin 10
whats pin 10 go to burgo?
whats pin 10 go to burgo?according to
http://www.cavweb-forums.co.uk/showthread.php?25061-Cavalier-Calibra-ECU-plug-pin-assignment
its - 10 - Separate ground for oxygen sensor P32
hmmmmm it will run without the ox sensor. spud have you tested the coil pack for 12v cranking and ign at the coil wiring?
Yes and we have run the wire that supplies the 12v constant feed whilst cranking to the battery to rule out it being connected wrong, we have tried all the bolt off sensors on a known running xe and still no joy:cry:
spud, feed pin 18 and 27 with 12v permanent, then crank it, thats the main power feeds to the ecu. it double checks the ecu feeds. :)
have you unplugged the ecu and stuck a meter on the wire and then gone thru the ecu pins?
hes tried the ecu on another car and it fired straight up do the ecu isn't faulty
whats pin 10 go to burgo?
this? (http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107327) l0l
limp grow up im trying to be helpful and your being a gimp.
spud, i can come and have a look and bring my multimeter on sat or sun if you like?
Spud I shall read this later and see if I can offer any insight. Unfortunately I haven't built as many cars as the man above me, however I can but try.
Pin 10 is a shielded earth cable, brown with a grey trace. (Sorry if its been said previously)
TBH whenever i start to see cut wires here and there id bin the loom and get another.
EDIT- The knock sensor has a shielded cable, brown with a white trace.
TBH whenever i start to see cut wires here and there id bin the loom and get another.
UPDATE!!!!
Took this advice and replaced loom for another one, he had to replace the maf plug as that had wandered off but the rest of the loom is spot on, now we have fuel in the rail on cranking which is a hell of a lot closer than we were, but still no spark lol
Was the xe a known runner? Got to be getting towards something funked mechanically/electronically now.
Dispak/Ignition module
Im assuming it was as he wouldnt part with his pennies if it wasnt a good one lol
Dispack/coilpack works, it has a misfire but does run, the booster module does work aswell and he has a couple of them, it cant be much more now i wouldnt have thought!
The ignition system only consists of the coilpack and the module (obv ht leads etc too) So one of them is dodgy if its misfiring.
Unless the misfire is fuel related.
So it does start and run now???
No its still got no spark, but it now primes on cranking and we have fuel in the rail, we have tried the coilpack on another engine and it runs, misfires but runs but we have no spark whatsoever though!
So the coilpack is deffo fcuked then????
Shame you aint closer, you could borrow bits of mine!!
Yes we tried it on a running XE and it ran but with a misfire so it needs replacing anyways but should still fire it up as it did in the other car, tis still a confusing one though!
Fit the coilpack off that engine onto yours
UPDATE..........................
ITS ALIVE WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thankyou to all who offered advice and help was muchly appreciated, the original loom we had was fubar'ed, when he changed the old loom for the new one he forgot we had only placed the crank sensor into the block and not bolted it in lol
He went to fire it up after bolting it in and wasnt actually expecting it to run, as tbf neither was i, he only has the manifold/downpipe on so when it fired up much to his surprise he sh!t his self nearly, i sooo wish id have seen that:d
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.