View Full Version : Generic arch tubbing question (strength)
Now then, apologies for the non VX content. I guess this is the best forum for this?
I'm tubbing the arches on my Nissan at present. It is a bit more involved than you would first think. I have images of the STC shells and I am having to follow the same pattern as it is the only way.
My question is one of strength, as there is a large part I need to cut out (I will then seam weld it) but I am unsure if the shell can take it.
My car already has no boot floor, rear shelf, rear seat supports etc. and I have a feeling that when RML tubbed the works shells that they were already caged, which as can be seen I am not!
Here's a few pics. Any advice from those in the structural know how would go down a treat. :thumb:
http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac157/itsallac0nspiracy/P11/SP_A0713-1.jpg?t=1264357839
http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac157/itsallac0nspiracy/P11/SP_A0715-1.jpg?t=1264357922
Now for the area of concern
I need to cut out the whole area that is professionaly coloured in red. lol
http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac157/itsallac0nspiracy/P11/SP_A0717-1.jpg?t=1264358007
http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac157/itsallac0nspiracy/P11/SP_A0716-1.jpg?t=1264358106
What I wonder is if it is OK to cut out a section the vertical part that the weather strip fits over, as obviously this is in the way of any arch tub.
Obviously once I cut out the vertical section I will stitch it back together.
I'm concerned that it may become too flimsy and distort the shell as that area seems quite structural and is a good few skins thick.
If it requires bracing, where from? (can get more pics) I considered clamping it from the strut tower to the outside quarter. :confused:
I don't want to do this until I know the consequences! lol
Here's how RML did it. Same deal. As said though, it may have been caged beforehand.
http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac157/itsallac0nspiracy/P11/Primera_cage.jpg?t=1264358403
I'm aware these cars had multi million pound R&D and don't expect or want to copy it to extremes, but this is the only way to run the car lower on 18's (they ran 19's)
Cheers. :)
whilst the shell is on the floor and not having to support its own weight i very much doubt it will move at when you cut it out. weather it is then strong enough once tubbed i dunno. why are you not running a cage?
I'm gonna run a cage mate. Just need to either get the tube myself and make it or send it down to a lad I know Lincoln way on who could make one for me.
The shell is on axle stands ATM so as you say, no weight. Plus the thing is just the bare bones TBH.
I wanted the tubs done first so I can see where the cage needs to go to triangulate to the strut tops etc. Make sense?
Cheers Mr mod. lol
ahhh yesh i read it wrong lol.
as far as making the cage yourself i would buy the main hoop and the front legs as they need to be shaped obviously. can do the straight parts yourself easy enough. depends how confident you are with your welding
I'm confident with the welding, it's the bending I need practice with (read none excpet 19+22mm copper/CDS)
There's no off the shelf parts to purchase, do you mean have an engineering company knock up the main hoop and the front legs? I have the dimensions, so I guess it's doable.
You're the only one to reply to this yet on any forum, so if I go down the garage now and switch on the grinder and the car folds in half I blame you (and I still couldn't neg you!) lol
i assume you need to chop chunks out of the door too???
won't the ride height be way too low for road use???
ps. the last of the btcc primera's looked really aggressive, is this a replica?
by the way. the old hot rod trick of welding a few bars in to hold it all together might be prudent
might be worth contacting a cage place and see how much they want to make this bit for you
http://www.customcages.co.uk/Images/145/0/Assets/Products/Clubman/c3model.jpg
i assume you need to chop chunks out of the door too???
won't the ride height be way too low for road use???
ps. the last of the btcc primera's looked really aggressive, is this a replica?
Yeah, door too Mowgli.
http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac157/itsallac0nspiracy/P11/SP_A0721-1.jpg?t=1264361425
It's not so much a replica, more inspired by them.
I have cut more out of my shell than they did, but obviously won't have CF dash extentions etc.
I have the works CF splitter, had the front wings flared, got a down force spoiler (albeit from a Mondeo lol)
It will be too low for road use, but I have the option of raising it. It certainly needs tubbing to get anywhere near the look/handling I want from the car.
The car needs to sit much lower to the ground though, or will just like another shonky wannabe 'replica' with no time/thought/money involved. (minus the stickers)
I should (and nearly did) do this years ago. I think they were an awesome looking Super Touer too. :thumb:
what's the racing series the old super tourers are all in?? formula saloons???? maybe you could find who has got an old primera btcc car & blag a look round it with a camera...
That's not a bad idea Burgo. I contacted the rollcentre a while ago and they never got back to me :/
Aye you could be right Mowgli. It's already braced with the rear beam and the box section above that so I thought it's already pretty well taken care of in that respect?
Had it been caged I would never have made this post. lol
what's the racing series the old super tourers are all in?? formula saloons???? maybe you could find who has got an old primera btcc car & blag a look round it with a camera... The did run in Formula Saloons or similar IIRC
I have bought a few bits from touringcarspares and they know this bloke who runs this exSTC privately. It would'nt hurt to ask for a nosey I guess. I was thinking that a while ago, but they're hard to come by these days. I'll see if he's at any Croft or Knockhill meetings.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s247/eurojdmp11/Primera/Super%20tourers/HPIM1169.jpg
Not to mention I don't use the Primera OC as they're all w4nkers and steal ideas etc (long time ago) lol Otherwise they may have been able to offer a few pics I don't have.
its remarkable really... as a road car the std primera was really anonymous. you'd struggle to pick one out in a car park, but they really made them look good for racing.
the new one looks like those cars you used to get printed on the weetabix box that you cut out and glued together..
I used to build the new one (French POS!)
My/the above shape can really look the part in STC guise I agree.
Even the facelift has it's merits. Those things normally define Jap blandness!
http://www.supertouringregister.com/image/69.jpg
Formula Saloons FTW. I wonder what replaced it.
Here's a site you may enjoy mate. Some funny looking and awesome STC machines on this database
http://www.supertouringregister.com/gallery/
ive got a mate who has sheet loads of pug 205's which are known for there handling and he bought a primera gt as a run around. has nothing but praise for how well they handle aswell
Aye they were the best of that FWD class (Mondeo/Vec/Avensis etc) at the time. I always thought it sucked how they reverted back to a rear beam for my/your mates P11 shape yet the previous P10 ran IRS, but the touring cars even ran the beam with it's panhard feature so it must be OK. The front suspension is a bit strange too, with the top link but as you say, it makes for a decent handling large FWD car. If your mate has 205's I guess he knows a good handling runaround lol.
My beam needs some modification though as it's maxed out at present and the trailing arms are as good as touching the floorpan. :/
yes i remember watching mr reid in the white ones with primera down the side pretty much owning unless it was raining and then the audis took it obviously
yes i remember watching mr reid in the white ones with primera down the side pretty much owning unless it was raining and then the audis took it obviously
Sounds like Toca Touring Cars on the PlayStation too! Damn Audis. lol
I like the footage where Mansell was driving one of the Mondeos and put Leslie into the tyres cos he was on a mission! Never tire of watching 90's STC stuff. So much better than that crap they call BTCC now. :(
Sounds like Toca Touring Cars on the PlayStation too! Damn Audis. lol
I like the footage where Mansell was driving one of the Mondeos and put Leslie into the tyres cos he was on a mission! Never tire of watching 90's STC stuff. So much better than that crap they call BTCC now. :(
that was in the wet aswell. mansell drove his ass off. he didnt put leslie off tho from what i remember, he lost it himself??
will have to youtube it
check out the andy rouse/tim harvey cossie sierra battle at the birmingham superprix, now that's racing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHXzrNyMc6I&feature=related
that was in the wet aswell. mansell drove his ass off. he didnt put leslie off tho from what i remember, he lost it himself??
will have to youtube it
Aye, p!ssing it down. I thought he done the PIT manouver on Leslie. Could be wrong.
^ Another classic Mowgli. Shame I never seen that the first time around. I did see Cleland Vs Soaper though. :cool:lol
Anthony Reid, and he did tap him so he spun out. Awesome race. lol
TTT. I've been told that the structure should be fine if I cut the door shut as the chassis leg will be supporting it all. Reckon?
to cut it out and re-tub it yes that is the case. just wether it is strong enough after tubbing to support its own weight without moving i cant say. if it was mine then i would trust it :)
Ah. Cool then I'll chop it out. It will be strong enough. I trust myself lol. It's the part when it has no tub at all that concerned me. Although the shell won't be getting moved.
Now, if only my compressor had a better cfm then I could use the reciprocating saw. There's only so much I like to do with an angle grinder lol.
well whatever you do take your time bud as theres a fine line between looking awesome and being ****e lol
Aye, too true mate! I had another look at it before. I think the RML car shell has had part of the door shut left in place. It measures 40mm at the lowest and 90mm at th eheighest point, so if the extra clearence needed is less than 40mm it seems I can leave a thin strip in place and then tie the new tubs to it.
I'm a lot happier after realising that lol.
Maybe this pic will explain a little. It doesn't seem as if the tubs extend past the height of the door shut, or am I mistaken? You can also see the mods to the door.
http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac157/itsallac0nspiracy/Super%20Tourers/rhp11.jpg?t=1264446245
That carbon door card is mega no expense spared, could cut it out a little bit less neatly on a flat sheet for 1/4 as much lol
novacabrio
25-01-10, 07:22 PM
How about a Skymera
http://www.ridejudge.com/rides/00002262.jpg
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/536424
If you don't know it, it was local to Newcastle and build by the same guys as used to do my spiders
lol Sheks old thing. I know him well yeah. Knew him in it's first guise too.
LT Taylor wasn't it? Then they went under shortly after building his 2 grand R34 crumple zone. lol
It's not for me and never was. lol
Incidentally it is/was being reshelled into a 4dr by one of the NPOC lads. That would look much better but I still wouldn't bother. Each to their own though!
The Simps
26-01-10, 01:05 AM
For the sake of going to an engineering shop and just getting some 3mm angle I'd just tack in a little bracing mate. Best to be sure than sorry.
novacabrio
26-01-10, 09:19 AM
lol Sheks old thing. I know him well yeah. Knew him in it's first guise too.
LT Taylor wasn't it? Then they went under shortly after building his 2 grand R34 crumple zone. lol
It's not for me and never was. lol
Incidentally it is/was being reshelled into a 4dr by one of the NPOC lads. That would look much better but I still wouldn't bother. Each to their own though!
LS Taylors, I knew drew the painter very well, great bunch of lads who knew their stuff. They got compulsory purchased by the council and drew went into building power boats some where
Ah LS. They seemed to turn out some very nice work. I recall a yellow S2000 that had been front ended and at the time it was cheaper to repair it with a full carbon front end rather than Honda panels. lol
Guess that explains why they disappeared!
Simps. I will tack some bracing in too. Got some 1/4 box section in the rafters I'll see if it's up to the job. It's good to know I don't have to cut out the whole door shut area now though. lol
MK, yeah they didn't mess about lol. As you can now pick up any 90's era ST car for £20/25K sometimes with a huge spares package they would make a very competitive hill climber etc. I don't know why more people don't run them.
I nearly bought a set of those moulded door cards a few years back then I realised they wouldn't fit my door.
Flat sheet FTW. Probs polycarb or similar for me. lol
Cheers for all the replies people. Appreciated. :)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.