V6 Vs Xe

[puss puss]

Well am currently trying to build my 1st track day car

am a sheep and have followed the rest of you and i am going to go for a xe in the beast :thumb:

My question is why dont people use v6's? I know the v6 weigh's a bit is that the main reason why people dont use them as much as xe's for there track weapons :)

Because there is a lot of c25xe (v6 2.5l) on fleebay for not a lot of cash, although the 3.0l v6 would be better i guess?


Also has anyone done a turbo charged v6 yet? I wouldnt mind attempting in my next nova :tard:

RWD of course :cool:




thought it was a bit of a muppet question so thats why its in here and just to keep everyone happy

Snows going so can work on the nova now yay :roll:

[wwmnw]

V6 + Nova + track = death

Some people say a C20XE is a tad heavy upfront so imagine what a V6 would be like.

Although C20XE'd Nova's are fairly common on track and off.

[djshaggeh]

Awaits Razorjack to post...

IMO the 16v is too much for the wee nova unless you want to spend alot on the suspension setup. I'd be different and keep it 8v, thats what engine they were designed to run.

[Nobby]

Awaits Razorjack to post...

IMO the 16v is too much for the wee nova unless you want to spend alot on the suspension setup. I'd be different and keep it 8v, thats what engine they were designed to run.

pfff lol

[Mazz]

V6's are great engines, slap a lightened fly, enlarged TB and 3.0 cams in a 2.5 and they are good for 200bhp, which is damn sight cheaper than getting an XE to 200bhp, but you have got the 2 extra cylinders...

[bmw156]

i think unless you were puting the engine in the back. there is way to much weight up front with a v6

and jack ( v6 saab nova) will be one of the first to admit his car is **** at handling.

[Adam]

If you want a nice noise then fit a v6.
For any other needs fit a XE.

It would be interesting to see just what a v6 nova is actually like on track

[Bubba]

in the ditry dozen feature in TV some guy tubby'd his 3.0 6pot

[Adam]

Yup.
But hes using it on a 2mile runway? lol

[Mazz]

Without 'corners'

[Jackroadkill]

Would make the front end very, very heavy. You'd need suspension alterations - probably something like a Vectra SRi set-up, and also the engine mounts would need very serious alterations. It would be quite fast in a straight line (c25xe is powerful but quite lazy, even with a manual box) but acceleration wouldn't be as aggressive as you might expect although your top speed would be high, especially with the 3.0 cams as suggested above. Handling? I wouldn't expect too much of that, if I were you!

[puss puss]

thanks for all your replys ill guess ill just follow everyone else and fit a xe :)

My dream when this nova is finished and i get my other one is to turbo a v6 mid engine rwd *boner*

although i know its a lot of work but this "dream one" can have as much time spent on it as it needs lol

[blue_peg_16v]

jesus sloth hasnt seen this yet lol

he will say saab v6 turbo ftw lol but feck that for a track motor xe on carbs or throttlebodies every day

[Jack]

LMFAO

[puss puss]

LMFAO



ill screw ya ass back on for ya :thumb:

o well we can dream cant we? i feel like dreaming lol.

But yeh it will be a c20xe in the motor i reakon :thumb:

[Jack]

Ok, my ass has been screwed back on, so here's a more in depth reply covering some of the points raised, followed by my own opinion.


Well am currently trying to build my 1st track day car
...
My question is why dont people use v6's? I know the v6 weigh's a bit is that the main reason why people dont use them as much as xe's for there track weapons :)
The 2.0 16v is tried and tested, its a relatively easy conversion these days with off the shelf parts.


Also has anyone done a turbo charged v6 yet? I wouldnt mind attempting in my next nova :tard:
It won't fit up front lol Saab did a breathed on 3.0 V6, but it was a low blow turbo and actually LESS powerful than the N/A 3.0 V6.


and jack ( v6 saab nova) will be one of the first to admit his car is **** at handling.
"****" is an understatement. "Dangerous" is more like it lol


It would be interesting to see just what a v6 nova is actually like on track
I'm hoping that IF (and this is a big IF) we get the saloon to a strong and reliable state, I will hand the keys to Lee and let him give it a razz. However, it will require decent track tyres (I have crap road tyres on it at the moment and there's no way in hell I'm letting go on track with those), a new gearbox and a few other bits tweaked and fixed, including the integrity of the shell. I'm still not convinced the F20 will handle the punishment of a track session either, bearing in mind its running nigh on the torque limit with the B308i.


in the ditry dozen feature in TV some guy tubby'd his 3.0 6pot
In a Nova?


Would make the front end very, very heavy. You'd need suspension alterations - probably something like a Vectra SRi set-up, and also the engine mounts would need very serious alterations. It would be quite fast in a straight line (c25xe is powerful but quite lazy, even with a manual box) but acceleration wouldn't be as aggressive as you might expect although your top speed would be high, especially with the 3.0 cams as suggested above. Handling? I wouldn't expect too much of that, if I were you!
I can tell you now, acceleration is VERY aggressive lol

To be fair, an XE requires suspension/brakes/etc just as the V6 does. The mounts are actually all the same (assuming F20 gearbox) except the front passenger side, which requires some fabrication.

The weight argument is often brought up, and you may be surprised to learn a V6 with F20 is only around 8Kgs heavier than a 2.0 XE with F20. The difference - and its a big one - lies in the fact that the V6 sits much further forward than the 4 pot. You have an entire bank of 3 cylinders pretty much hanging over the front cross member and that makes a massive difference to the handling. Having said that, the extra few Kgs were just a little toooo much for the XE weight springs so I had to upgrade to coilovers.


My dream when this nova is finished and i get my other one is to turbo a v6 mid engine rwd *boner*
been done :p can't remember if it was turbocharged, but it was mid engined and possibly rwd.

Now for my opinion.

I ran my saloon for about 6 months with a 20XE. We (the royal "we", Lee did most the work, I stood around and held spanners lol) then swapped it out for a B308i Saab engine, which is basically an X30XE. As mentioned above, the mounts were all the same bar the front one, of which you need to make one as there's no off the shelf solution. You will also need some custom exhaust manifolds to get round the steering rack. Plus, the front manifold sits roughly 1" INFRONT of the standard radiator location, so that needs some jiggling around lol We also used an F20 with a light flywheel, which is excellent but as said its right on the torque limit for the F20, so it won't take much abuse.

To drive on the road, its fantastic. In gear acceleration is amazing, its perfect as a motorway cruiser mainly as you never need to change gear. 5th can drive from 25mph all the way up to whatever speed you want on your ticket. And will probably still out accelerate a standard 20XE lol Its thirsty, whilst admittedly we've not connected up lambda sensors on the Saab engine (so its no doubt overfueling like buggery), it returns around 25mpg normal driving - compare to the 40 I could get from the 20XE. As a comparison, coming back from PVS last year, I was comparible (read: faster :p) than Ernie in his TB'd 20XE track car on the motorways.

On track, you will probably die at the first corner. Handling really is that bad and you really can notice the weight hanging over the front. Where as the XE could be dragged round corners if you were brave enough, the V6 just goes where it damned well likes and if it wants to kill you, it probably will.

Would I swap back for a 2.0 instead of the V6? Not bloody likely. BUT mine is a road car, not a track car. :cool:

[jimbob-mcgrew]

go crazy puss puss, turn it into a real machine, chop out the centre line of the car for propshaft tunneling and mount an xe backwards on a custom mounts :thumb:

[bmw156]

lol, nice "write up" jack.

i bet on a track, if you went for late braking, the back end would come up. with all the weight and momentum.

[Jack]

I reckon with the right tyres and an empty rear end (ditched the audio and junk in my boot) I could make it do a handstand lol

Would be interesting to see it on track, but as said its built as a road car. Plus if it got mashed, I'd have nothing to drive home in :(

[jimbob-mcgrew]

sling a coupla sand bags in the boot before u give the keys to lee, he'll probably kill himself otherwise lol

[wwmnw]

Mid engined 3.0 V6 RWD has been done but it wasn't turbo'd, that white one iirc and he was asking £25,000,000,000 for it.

[puss puss]

yeah i guess it is a bit heavy up front am going for a xe for obvious reasons on the track :)

but "if" the v6 was mid engined then would it be better on the track? i mean the weight would be in the middle of the car so it should be better :)

[blue_peg_16v]

jack the v6 turbo was in a nova a white one but it was a c25xe with home made turbo conversion the turbo sat above the gearbox not a saab lump so yet more weight upfront lol it was in total vauxhall at either a shoot out or a meet cant remember which though

[Mazz]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y191/mrmazz/Cars/CIMG3580_Small.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y191/mrmazz/Cars/CIMG3574_Small.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y191/mrmazz/Cars/CIMG3576_Small.jpg

[scott.parker]

IMO Jacks V6 is just for the hell of saying Ive done it, was good to see how many looked at it at Billing and whent, what engine is that?? V6! Jesus.. lol

And as he's said him self, it's not a very good pairing, the one bubba's on about got wrote off not long back, black one.

Scott