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View Full Version : *INFO* 1600 8v Turbo - What I used



Mike
08-01-10, 10:53 PM
1600 8v Turbo.

It gets asked almost weekly. Lots want to know about it, lots contemplate it, an TBH its not really that hard doing it. Its the "being bothered to finish it" and I simply CBA after 2 years of messing LOL!

This is exactly what I used to do mine*

*Bolted it together, but never ran it, so fook knows if it would have worked or not...

From top of engine down.

Spacer Plate:

Lowers engine compression so the added boost doesnt make swiss cheese outta the pistons.

Where from: http://www.ferriday.co.uk/cnc/decompression_plates.shtml

Phone them ^^ for your requirements, this thread isnt a calculation page for compression ratios, contact them & discuss your requirements, hes a very friendly chap.

I opted for a 1.3mm thick plate, cant remember off my head what the CR worked out to be but it was deemed "safe" regardless. Last time i spoke to them it was a 2 week wait & £107 + postage.

Which Charger:

Big factor, to big & it will foul the rad, to small & well, why bother lol (physical size) Also AR & Trim size, to big an it'll lag like fook, to small an well actually smallest is like a T2 & there pretty damn good!

DONT use a low blow Diesel blower, there on a diesel motor for a reason.

A T2, T25 maybe even a T3? I opted for a T25 from a SAAB 9000 Carlsson Turbo with @ 12 odd PSi max boost out the box (that max without tampering with it BTW).

DONT be tempted by cheap chargers, there probably fcuked! Rebuild kits are cheap, but as i found out, taking a charger to bits can be fiddly for some one with idle thumbs...

Bigger is better to an extent, BUT to big an the actuator arm rams into the back of the rad, there will more then like be no room AT ALL for the standard engine fan.

Where from: Mine was sourced from a SAAB breakers via eBay. Cost me £80 with 6 months garantee that is does "work"?

Exhaust Manifold:

The bit you really really need! You might get lucky an get your hands on an old Courtenay Turbo item, realistically, dont bank on it. Choices are (limited)...

"Log manifold" ala HondaTech stylee. DIY Civic/CRX turbo people have had superb results with these belive it or not!! BUT you need welding skills, here you basically weld a load of cast steel pipe sections together an mate them to a 8v flange borrowed from an old 4-1 manifold:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/151.jpg

Or you can chop up a 4-1 manifold, which I also started, an this like most things, I got bored of rather quick (here my half @rsed mock up - dont use Gasless MiG either):

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/203.jpg

You can also use an MPi cast iron manifold with a funky cast iron adapter used for 200SX turbo upgrades, with a bit of machine work it does work:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/296.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/342.jpg

Where from: SPi manifold, FOC from Adam of here. Cast steel parts came in at about £30 delivered from a gas piping specailist i found on google. Second hand FUBAR 4-1 approx say £30?? Cast Iron adapter I got from eBay America for about £55 & had £20 worth of milling work done to it so it bolts straight into a SPi manifold.

Dont forget, you'll need all the gaskets aswell, manifold to charger, elbow to charger, manifold to head etc etc.

Downpipe & elbow:

I used a T25, so needed a T2 series elbow. Mine was taken from a R5 GTT, cost £20 +postage an some late night eBay bidding. Bolts straight onto the charger. (gasket needed here - about £2)

For the downpipe, I opted for a Fiesta RS Turbo item as there slightly longer then the R5 version (I had both an measured them) longer the better (ask your mum - she'll verify that) but if its to long its easier to shorten then lengthen....

(For this excercise here's my rough as @ss holes demonstration) SAAB charger, bolted to Renault elbow, bolted to Ford downpipe, roped onto an E16 short block. You get the idea.....

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/222.jpg

Where from: eBay, price varies massively! Anything from £10 to say £50 + postage costs.

Dont forget! Once its all bolted up & into the shell, you will need to lengthen or shorten the downpipe aswell as connect it upto the exhaust system.

This is where it gets tricky, as there is NO room at all for the oil filter.....

Oil Filter Relocation:

I had to as I had no choice but to do this to forward progess....

Basically, the hot side of the charger would have been wedged about an inch into my oil filter if I didnt.

Mocal, there your best friends for this!! You cant get a small block 8v relocation kit....or can you?? Yes. You can, as I had one & it fitted fine! I found a shop on eBay selling SEH/NE ones, emailed him asking if he can supply one for a small block 8v, an yes he could, so yes he did.

Where from: eBay @ £118 + postage IIRC

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/265.jpg

Mike
08-01-10, 11:51 PM
Cont....

Oil Feed & Drain:

Oil Feed:

The next pain in the rectum to the saga of pain in the bums I had whilst doing this....super wickedly integral part of the build. Chargers are cooled by oil syphoned from the oil that lubricates the rest of the engine.

Some say "drill & tap a take off from the block....". Yea asif, theres NO NEED. Off the shelf parts from Ford fit GM 8v pumps. You know how I know that?? Because I fcuking done it with some advice from (insert username here when you find it?) the guy with the YBT 4x4 Nova.

From left to right:

S/S Braided Sierra/Escort Cosworth oil feed hose for 2 series chargers.
Escort RS Turbo oil feed take off.
Escort RS Turbo oil pressure sensor.
Nova E16SE oil pressure sensor.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/302.jpg

Holy fcuk batman the Ford part fits the Nova oil pump! Problem solved for £10.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/303.jpg

Now all you need is the various fittings to bolt the S/S hose into the charger, luckily my charger already had them when I bought it. Win.

Oil Drain:

Now, this is a little easier, but not if that makes sense. This needs to go directly back into the sump. As high up in the sump as possible, near enough where the sump gasket it!

You can simply braze or weld a 12mm or so diameter pipe straight into the sump & connect it via a oil/fuel resistant hose to the outlet on the bottom of the charger. Or use an Escort Cosworth cast steel drain pipe with the Cosworth 45 degree rubber hose. Altho these are mega hard to come by as the hose splits as standard on most Cosworth motors.

(No pics of this at the minute. EDIT: Cant find pic but will add one as ive still got the parts)

Where from:

http://www.rscosworthbreakers.co.uk/

If your willing to pay their prices they'll help you out no end, take a look around the site too, its cool as fook!!

eBay:

S/S hose was about £40, managed to get 1 RST fitting for £10 & another few spare for £5 a peice.

Cosworth drain pipe was a rare find at about £15 or so.

Intercooler:

Works on the same principal as the vehicles radiator, but its filled full of pressurised air "pumped" from the red hot turbo. The intercooler "cools" the air by the same principal a rad cools the water basically.

I opted for a "twin pass" for ease of plumbing it up.

Ala:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/272.jpg

Only reason being, both inlet & outlet are on the same side which makes its mega easy to pipe up the charger (One pipe above engine mount, one pipe under it) I mounted ,y charger backwards, so a silicone hose would be infront of the filter relocation head as oppose to a red hot exhaust downpipe thus needing a twin pass cooler to make it even easier to plumb in.

Other types of traditioanl IC can be used, but bear in mind the more bends in the pipework, the higher the overall pressure drop is. The charger could make say 10psi at the impellor, yet only 9psi is reaching the throttle body (for example)

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/275.jpg

You'd never know....

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/274.jpg

I also opted for intercooler spray kit as the I/C was nearly touching the rad...but thats another story....for another thread.....

Where from: Cant remember....might have been eBay again? Cost about £140 or something stupid thought.

Fuelling:

No juice, no boost. Its as simple as that.

To little & its SNAFU, to much an er well, its SNAFU!!

Moneys the limiting factor here. At time of build I had a 3 bed detached house, 3 cars plus this (so 4) 2 kids & was trying to get my business off the ground (part reason why I gave up). So I went cheap skate & got a rising rate fuel pressure regulator.

Basically you plumb a fly off boost line into it this thing & for every +1 PSi boost you make, it gives you +1 fuel PSi. Apparently this way is "cowboy" though.

This NEEDS to be mounted AFTER the OE FPR for it to work sucessfully (IIRC anyway??) if its mounted prior to the OE reg, the OE reg will "limit" its max flow, thus it'll be useless. E16SE standard FPR is 2.5 bar or 36.2psi (I added a V6 3.0 bar FPR to my rail just because.)

I opted for quite a posh billet aluminium one with a glycerine filled gauge so you can visually monitor fuel PSi. A remote Fuel PSi gauge mounted onto the exterior side of the scuttle panel in driver view might also be a good idea to monitor it from in car whilst on move (my eventual plan)

Toyota 7MGTE Rising Rate FPR

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/264.jpg

Essentially you have:

OE fuel line in
Positive boost line in
FPR fuel line out to rail

Where from:

Cant remember. Ive seen them on eBay, Demon Tweeks, Burton Power etc etc. Cost varies from about £100 to like £300!

Recommendations are - SARD & Rotrex. (Rotrex is common in US for S/C'd Civic's, heard nothing but good things about them!)

Other options:

There are plently other avenues of exploration for fuelling on a 1600T. Megasquirt/Megajolt/Emerald etc etc. Then the bigger moneys variants such as OMEX/MBE etc. I know next to nothing about these management systems so dont even ask......

Other:

Dump valves. Yes by all means fit one to stop the charger stalling when letting off throttle (not that it will anyway....). I had a Escort Cosworth Grp A one as I had it lying around. (My advice is dont use one of these on a road car, a genuine one is very high pitched - unless mine was broke)

Intercooler piping. Get yourself a random generic "hard pipe" kit off eBay for about £60 or get some proper tasty pipes made up by a fabricator. Less bends & shortest route the better!

Injectors. Bigger injectors from a bigger cc engine aint worth it. Unless you some how manage to hit like 200 horse (which I doubt but not ultimatly impossible)

Engine health. If your motors old, millenium falcon milage, dont expect it to last long. Meltdown will come...

Boost pressure. Dont go silly with it. From all the research I done 2 years ago, about 14 PSi I *think* was deemed "more then bloody enough for an E16SE!" A conservative 10PSi maybe? 14PSi could potentialy be enough to make about 170/80bhp ATF.

Mike
09-01-10, 12:19 AM
Cont....

The last bit:

If youve got this far, collected all manner of random parts & sh1t, have a half built engine or what ever then fair play to you.

The info I've put up, the parts I used, the way in which I done what I did took 2 years, a bit of planning, plenty of internet research & countless damn hours just to form the basis of a turbocharged small block 8v from which I could get running, get tested & then work further into improving it.

Its not new ground as such, far from it really. Altho a complete, sucessful & worthwhille home built 1600T motor is quite something. I only know of one sucessful story (one DIY build that is).

Ok, so the likes of you "money no object" type people might look an think "crude as you like" but the way I see it is, all I ever originally set out to acheive was a basis on which to build upon, get some info together & show the mases that ask weekly. 70% of which I'd like to think I achieved, the other 30% Ill leave upto you lot reading this.


Disclaimer.

This thread is information ONLY. Anyone wishing to perform modifications like this to there own vehicle IS doing so at there own risk.
Myself, PNG Club nor anyone of mine or PNG Club's associates take blame for any potental outcome resulting from the use/misuse of the information contain within this document.

Happy days.

PNG Calender shot - January 2008

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/LHAura/109_0133.jpg

E16SE & F13CR

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/engine2.jpg

Mike was here 2010.

Plug
09-01-10, 01:11 AM
some good information there, not that im going to be turboing a lump yet, but its popping up more and more in mechanical.

have some rep :( must spread it about

Count Vaux Alot
09-01-10, 01:21 AM
Very informative Mike and respect for being bothered to firstly do the research and secondly share it with every one.

djshaggeh
09-01-10, 02:02 AM
+rep

All the info I'm after all in one place! Good honest write up too, thank you.

andy_mk3
09-01-10, 02:22 AM
+rep really good and clear info :)

comptoncj
09-01-10, 09:16 AM
Really good info, I'm starting my build as soon as the engine arrives lol +rep

Dirtydog1
09-01-10, 09:22 AM
holy **** mate, 2 years! i did mine in a matter of weeks and i thought i was slow! lol great fun to drive though!!!!! :)

Dirtydog1
09-01-10, 09:24 AM
ps, you need to watch where you put the oil return, if the turbo sits too low down the oil back feeds and will cause the oil seals in the turbo to blow (especially when using a big turbo on the cast manifold)

comptoncj
09-01-10, 09:55 AM
holy **** mate, 2 years! i did mine in a matter of weeks and i thought i was slow! lol great fun to drive though!!!!! :)

What do they go like? I'l find out for myself when mines done but are they torque steery ?

Mike
19-01-10, 12:35 PM
holy **** mate, 2 years! i did mine in a matter of weeks and i thought i was slow! lol great fun to drive though!!!!! :)

I did have 3 other cars on the go, a house, missus, 2 kids running riot & was in the process of getting the beginngs of a small business off the ground aswell lol

Edd
19-01-10, 07:43 PM
Good write up Mike bout time some one did it,

just to add this is the parts i got for the oil feed and return,

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NOVA-ASTRA-CORSA-GTE-SRI-GSI-2-0-16V-XE-GAUGE-ADAPTOR_W0QQitemZ400097962898QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK _Cars (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NOVA-ASTRA-CORSA-GTE-SRI-GSI-2-0-16V-XE-GAUGE-ADAPTOR_W0QQitemZ400097962898QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK _CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item5d27b26b9 2)
Parts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item5d27b26b92 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NOVA-ASTRA-CORSA-GTE-SRI-GSI-2-0-16V-XE-GAUGE-ADAPTOR_W0QQitemZ400097962898QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK _CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item5d27b26b9 2)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Garrett-T25-GT25-GT28-Turbo-Oil-Feed-Line-Kit-S13-S14_W0QQitemZ220534415287QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Garrett-T25-GT25-GT28-Turbo-Oil-Feed-Line-Kit-S13-S14_W0QQitemZ220534415287QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3358e01fb7)
_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3358e01fb7 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Garrett-T25-GT25-GT28-Turbo-Oil-Feed-Line-Kit-S13-S14_W0QQitemZ220534415287QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3358e01fb7)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DIY-Garrett-T25-T28-Turbo-Oil-Drain-Pipe-Line-Kit_W0QQitemZ220534414231QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts_Vehi (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DIY-Garrett-T25-T28-Turbo-Oil-Drain-Pipe-Line-Kit_W0QQitemZ220534414231QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3358e01b97)
cles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3358e01b97 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DIY-Garrett-T25-T28-Turbo-Oil-Drain-Pipe-Line-Kit_W0QQitemZ220534414231QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Car sParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3358e01b97)

i also have info on the pressure switch that Courtenay used i there conversions for the fueling, need it find it, and will post it up when i do.

Edd.

Mike
19-01-10, 08:14 PM
^ quite an expensive way to go about it with the oil return?

I tried one of those adapter things an mine didnt fit all that tight :(

Edd
19-01-10, 08:22 PM
mine was ok with a bit of pfte tape.

is a bit dear just couldnt find anything else at the time.

burgo
19-01-10, 09:02 PM
mine was ok with a bit of pfte tape.

is a bit dear just couldnt find anything else at the time.rs turbo oil feed pipe and cossie adaptor i beleave

Stuart
21-01-10, 01:22 PM
What do they go like? I'l find out for myself when mines done but are they torque steery ?

in appropriate conditions my 55bhp 1.2 was torque steery.... its down to drive shaft length/way you drive/other similar bits rather than simply blaming the engine ;)

Mike
21-01-10, 01:42 PM
^ what he says + rotational mass

lol

novalovingned
21-01-10, 03:02 PM
Great write up. Good,honest,clear information.

Question, If someone is making there own manifold do the lenths of the manifold pipes leading to the turbo play a big part in how the engine runs.

For example:

Cylinder 1 pipe is 4 inches in lenth. Cylinder 2 is 5 inches etc etc?


What happens if this is the case?

Thanks again for the write up :)

Mike
21-01-10, 04:56 PM
Apparently they do yeah. Not that I ever gave a fook about that though lol lol

MK999
21-01-10, 05:41 PM
You're looking at moving into the black art of shifting power bands according to exhaust pulses there... if you're going to work all of that out I'd spend your time putting it on aftermarket management etc first, because the manifold isn't going to make the most noticeable difference on a vauxhall/ford/random parts bin engine lol

Count Vaux Alot
21-01-10, 07:17 PM
Great write up. Good,honest,clear information.

Question, If someone is making there own manifold do the lenths of the manifold pipes leading to the turbo play a big part in how the engine runs.

For example:

Cylinder 1 pipe is 4 inches in lenth. Cylinder 2 is 5 inches etc etc?


What happens if this is the case?

Thanks again for the write up :)

I wouldn't concern your self to greatly with this as MK99999999 9999 said its far past the concerns of even the most keen enthusiasts, even some OEM cast manifolds have uneven length runners.

Stuart
21-01-10, 07:45 PM
the LET for example

burgo
21-01-10, 11:07 PM
plus on a turbo its not as crucial as an N/A. in theory you want to keep them as short as possible thought

Mike
21-01-10, 11:09 PM
SPi manifold wins then surely?

burgo
21-01-10, 11:17 PM
it is pretty good yes mike

Mike
21-01-10, 11:18 PM
Meh lol i win :)

vx kev
22-01-10, 10:05 PM
Have been thinking about attempting this for a while now...
So upon reading this im pretty much decided now so roll on the next project :d
Cheers :thumb:

Mike
24-01-10, 03:13 PM
Best of luck chaps.

djshaggeh
27-01-10, 07:32 PM
Whats the best gearbox to use?

Paul
27-01-10, 07:34 PM
f15 i would have thought

djshaggeh
27-01-10, 07:39 PM
Nice one Paul, do you know if I will be able to use my inner cv joints?

Paul
27-01-10, 08:02 PM
yep.

philthepill_389
28-01-10, 10:51 AM
f13 cr with uprated clutch works great.

conversion is tricky due to lack of info on it. Trial and error. anyone who doe's one fuel pressure should be 3.5 bar at 0.5 bar of boost, don't be tempted to wind boost up it will blow head gaskets

djshaggeh
11-05-10, 03:53 PM
I came across this whilst trying to get my head round things, I thought it might be useful on here.

http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mturbo.htm

Green16v
09-01-11, 08:37 PM
I built mine and drove it to the ring and back with no problems, have a look at my project thread for my build. hope this may help

http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70971://

moffat
21-02-11, 05:29 PM
im very tempted by this. is it not possible to get someone with a turbo manifold to get them copied?

Edd
21-02-11, 08:20 PM
Bazil has a Courtenay cast manifold, unused it's my one that I never fitted, maybe ask him? It was the last one Courtenay had as well

bazil
21-02-11, 08:24 PM
ive pmd him Edd, i think reproducing cast manifolds would be rather expensive but it is an option.

moffat
21-02-11, 08:36 PM
cheers edd. Yeah bazil pm'd me. Might be able to get a manifold made by another members mate so will see what happens. Ive always been intrested in doing this.

matt_vaughan
26-11-11, 04:38 PM
Could we offset the turbo using an angled adapter to allow standard oil filter to be used?? Seen that 1300 turbo astra on youtube and that uses a standard filter. He's managed it somehow.

moffat
27-11-11, 05:48 PM
oil filter relo kits arent that dear and readily avalible on ebay... i got a unused on here from pie for mine

josh-sri
27-11-11, 06:30 PM
I had a tubular manifold made up when i ran mine, the turbo sat further out and i even had room for a sandwich plate on the oil filter to run my oil feed from. Had to run external wastegate though as the actuator would have wrecked the rad, but i just saw that as an excuse for a screamer pipe lol.

gteben
08-06-12, 07:09 PM
really useful infomation ... im going shopping i think ... my dad just look't at it an fort it not has hard as people make out ... but once it plummed in ill take to severn valley an let them to make it work right .as im shore there is some fine tooth adjustments to be done

mowgli
08-06-12, 07:14 PM
think of it like this.. use rs turbo stuff.... including ecu, and there is a really good chance it will run.... cos if a shonky cvh did, an e16se will

Stuart
08-06-12, 08:20 PM
really useful infomation ... im going shopping i think ... my dad just look't at it an fort it not has hard as people make out ... but once it plummed in ill take to severn valley an let them to make it work right .as im shore there is some fine tooth adjustments to be done
Drop the text/idiot typing.

gteben
08-06-12, 10:05 PM
Drop the text/idiot typing.

what you going on about ???

Stuart
08-06-12, 10:07 PM
Fort, shore etc.

gteben
08-06-12, 10:08 PM
well im sorry i have problems spelling... its not my strong point.......

gteben
08-06-12, 10:11 PM
i have got a mental problem.. some words i see different then others an spell different.....
i'm not trying to do it to piss people off...

Stuart
08-06-12, 10:11 PM
Problems spelling are typos, what you used were just blizzar replacements for words making it a pain to read.

gteben
08-06-12, 10:23 PM
well its there problem not mine.

burgo
08-06-12, 11:16 PM
well its there problem not mine.
you've just said its your problem lol

gteben
08-06-12, 11:24 PM
oh f**k i give up

Jon_nova1
09-06-12, 12:11 PM
I know someone that built a 1.4 turbo, went well and did indeed run reliable, f*ck knows where he can be found now though and i can't really be bothered looking lol , short ass, from the Manchester area goes by username Flying Flea

gteben
09-06-12, 12:45 PM
I know someone that built a 1.4 turbo, went well and did indeed run reliable, f*ck knows where he can be found now though and i can't really be bothered looking lol , short ass, from the Manchester area goes by username Flying Flea
I like the way that's been put