View Full Version : XE SBD TB mapping options.
scott.parker
09-12-09, 07:05 PM
Right, im trying to figure out the best options for my engine..
Do i
A) get the engine as it is mapped up, est cost £300-500
B) Buy some verniers to set up standard cams and get mapped, est cost £450-650
C) Buy fit some cams get mapped set, est cost £650-800+
D) Buy cams/verniers get fitted and mapped up, est cost £750-1000+
Now i dont want the usual depends what sort of money you have to spend/ depending on your budget, im asking for opinions on the best idea for setting the car up, and the price is at a guess, so i was also hoping if others could tell me if im near right etc.
EDIT: This and some cut slicks will be the last chunk of cash i spend on this car, as im looking to move out in new year and may sell/brake the car the following year...
Scott
if you're planning on fitting cams Scott, i'd say fit cams and verniers then have it mapped. No point having it mapped then re-doing it once you've fitted cams say 6 months down the line.
scott.parker
09-12-09, 07:10 PM
This was/is my thinking, but also a lad from work who has a mk1 escort said just get it mapped and see if it needs more power after..humm
what was Olly H on, he saw 200bhp?
scott.parker
09-12-09, 07:13 PM
Kent cams (1612's?) and got 197.7
Dont know if it had the verniers or not?
E) Do a straight swap for my 1.6 because small blocks handle better lol
Might be tempting to just get it mapped, but if you think you'll eventually want the cams etc, you're throwing money away imo... if you can't afford it at the moment, it's not like it's the best time of the year for trackdays and you're missing out, save up over winter and get everything you want to do with the car done. Even if you did get it mapped now and found some extra horses, where are you gonna use it in our lovely british weather? :p
the thing is, changing cams does not massively affect the map, so yes you will have get it mapped twice, but the second should just be a slight tinker...
scott.parker
09-12-09, 07:19 PM
Well i have money from my birthday (August) money from guitars/amps i sold, money for Christmas, money coming back from Tax man in new year should be around £1800-2000, so i should be OK for funds, just need to figure out how much to spend, and what on etc..
twistysnovagte
09-12-09, 07:20 PM
id say option "D" purley as i was reading a old issue of TV issue 65(ernies,chris)calypso red gte issue just moments ago, which states to fit vernier's,cams(piper) then a chip/remap as the best option(also change the hydraulic lifter's, timing belt tensioner etc while your at it;) )
scott.parker
09-12-09, 07:20 PM
the thing is, changing cams does not massively affect the map, so yes you will have get it mapped twice, but the second should just be a slight tinker...
Ahhh.. so might not cost too much then (EG £150) is this what your saying mate?
scott.parker
09-12-09, 07:24 PM
Also all see edit on first post.
If you're looking to get rid I think you'd have to question what the car/parts is worth with and without the work, and also what kind of value you put on the small power increase for that time, and ask yourself if you think it's worth it.
scott.parker
09-12-09, 07:35 PM
Humm i think I'll get a Auto Sprint cams and map? good value that way.
Well for example i have mine set up by T&R, the big set up (new turbo, new manifold, new inlet, new TB, bigger boost pipes etc cost 350 or so, then when i changed cams it was close so a lot cheaper, approx 150.
AS cams are usually regrinds so be wary of those....
If you WANT cams, then get cams(personally i wouldnt bother with verniers if they are quite mild cams), and then get it mapped.
Dont forget the std pistons will limit what cams you can run. Something like the ones Olly H had are your probably your limit.
There was some on mig earlier,with verniers for like £200, dont know if they are still on or not
cams and map :thumb:
actually spunk the money on rebuilding the mk1 lol
scott.parker
09-12-09, 08:18 PM
Ad any idea on what the max deg/lift is without pockets/or solid lifters?
Also AS offer re-grounds, or new, or profiled to suit from blanks etc.
Jimbo, no worries that getting done, look at the wip.
Scott
peester
09-12-09, 10:02 PM
so have u ever had the car map'd properly since t.b's..? surley u have..?
simply getting it mapped will make a whole world of difference for you, and if you arent sure if you are keeping it why bother spending extra when you will just lose that cash.
A well mapped engine is bliss to drive so I'd go for the simple option. As its on a rough base map it wont take that long to get it sorted anyway so a big mapping bill shouldnt be expected in the first place
spanishfly
10-12-09, 07:13 AM
No point in getting cams unless you need to change pistons as there ain't much gains without.
Olly made 2 bhp more than mine did, I was on someone elses map too.
No point in getting cams unless you need to change pistons as there ain't much gains without.
Olly made 2 bhp more than mine did, I was on someone elses map too.
Exactly what I was going to say - the only way I would get cams if they were given to me or were dirt cheap....
As said too - you wont need a 're' map, just atweak to the current one - Mech Motorsport charge around £1-200 for that....
If you are going cams etc route later on, may be worth getting the verniers now, as Dave didnt charge me to fiddle with my verniers or change teh trumpets etc....
No point in getting cams unless you need to change pistons as there ain't much gains without.
Olly made 2 bhp more than mine did, I was on someone elses map too.
But what RR was yours run on???
scott.parker
10-12-09, 04:30 PM
Exactly what I was going to say - the only way I would get cams if they were given to me or were dirt cheap....
As said too - you wont need a 're' map, just atweak to the current one - Mech Motorsport charge around £1-200 for that....
If you are going cams etc route later on, may be worth getting the verniers now, as Dave didnt charge me to fiddle with my verniers or change teh trumpets etc....
Cheers dude, thats the info i was hoping to here!
Best book it in then asap.
Also Thank you to Stuart, i value your advise as you know quite a bit in this area.
Scott
But what RR was yours run on???
iirc the same one ;)
spanishfly
10-12-09, 08:18 PM
But what RR was yours run on???
Not one that will over read 10-15bhp that would be required to make the cams worth while!
Cams worth while require extensive work like:
pocketed pistons, double springs, steel/ti retainers, special seats, solid lifters etc
Oh and as below grind away the head and camcover bolt holes.
My cams are only worth about 240bhp but should have decent midrange torque:) 12.5mm lift... catcams also do a 13.5 or 13.7:eek:
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs011.snc3/11854_358442735017_699605017_9870271_7203640_n.jpg
spanishfly
10-12-09, 08:20 PM
Cheers dude, thats the info i was hoping to here!
Best book it in then asap.
Also Thank you to Stuart, i value your advise as you know quite a bit in this area.
Scott
I won't bother next timelol
scott.parker
11-12-09, 12:42 AM
I won't bother next timelol
lol sorry didn't mean to make it sound like i was dismissing your reply, yours was similar to Wills, and im glad for the reply and effort, as your last few post's have given me something to think on, and a conclusion as to if it's worth spending any money on cams at all (for me etc.)
Scott
As said - cams are OK for a few bhp - there are some benefits in shifting the torques a bit higher up the range though - which is what happened when we found some and slapped them in an XE on 45s...
lol at Spanish 'only' worth 240 bhp.... Pfff
spanishfly
11-12-09, 09:17 AM
lol at Spanish 'only' worth 240 bhp.... Pfff
They are only worth 240bhp, initial plans were 250bhp, however these came up and midrange torque qill be good so it's worth the sacrifice of top end pub talk power!:thumb:
They are only worth 240bhp, initial plans were 250bhp, however these came up and midrange torque qill be good so it's worth the sacrifice of top end pub talk power!:thumb:
Indeed couldnt agree more! I was takin the pee - 'only' 240 is a contradiction for an XE!lol
discoinferno
03-03-10, 06:24 PM
did you get this mapped scott?
If your planning on breaking/selling anyway why 'waste' anymore money ? Just get out and have fun in it imho
Big_Chap
03-03-10, 08:03 PM
As already said, not much bhp per £ but when my mapper was tweaking the verniers he found 4 bhp iirc at peak on top of what the cams gave initially so there are gains to be had even if they are minute
novacabrio
03-03-10, 08:13 PM
My xe is 193bhp at well lane, Its standard internals other than rod bolts. Its also got a good exhaust and manifold. Mapped by Steve at SBD.
I'd say that if your going to end up wanting cams and verniers at some point in the future spend all the money at once then you wont end up having to spend it again in 12 months or so.
scott.parker
03-03-10, 10:19 PM
Cheers for all they advise guys
did you get this mapped scott?
Not yet Gaz, i will soonish though, just busy moving into a house at the mo, so times took up sorting things with that, and more money will be in that too i think.
But both cars will still receive there share i promise my self this. ;)
Scott
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