Are there any guides for bodywork?

[AW3K]

hi
sorry if this is the wrong place.

Are there any guides for repairing bodywork? mainly rust at the bottom of the rear arch/quarter pannel. if you know where i mean.

mines rusting abit and want to av alook to see if i can repair it myself or bodyshop it.

Thanks

AW3K

[Chris LR]

You can DIY, but if you've got the money I'd take it to bodyshop/somebody who's experienced

[AW3K]

thanks m8 that was a quick reply.

How much would i be looking at roughly and i'll decide on wether i can afford it :D


On another rust related point where do MOT test places check for rust?


Thanks

AW3K

[Chris LR]

MOT, Structual, Battery Tray/Engine Bay Boot Floor

Also if the external rust makes a sharp edge it will fail, but you can tape over it.

What sort of area are we talking about bodyshopping? You've got that colour guide in haynes for small holes etc.

[mikeoxford]

a PM to ade youll have a very detailed guide!

he rebuild his rusty / holey doors i think

[AW3K]

i havn't got a pic of the rust at the moment but i borrowed this from gen chat, i'll take some of my own in the mornin.

http://www.a-whiteman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/car/rust_this.jpg


the bit i have outlinned but not as bad as that. and some starting on the lip above the wheel.


Thanks

AW3K

[mikeoxford]

i borrowed this from gen chat,

possession is 9 tenths of the law mate :lol: 8)

[whitey]

That is nothing!! Where mine must have been bashed, that section of that side arch is BAD! Like that but more than an inch of the metal missing!

The person that resprayed that rear side did a shite job! Mine needs welding butyou will get away with getting rid of all that and then probably fibreglassing it and then filling over the top!

I have done this but Ade will be the best to ask as he will write a haynes manual for you!

[AW3K]

Here is mine.

drivers arch

http://www.a-whiteman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/car/arch1.jpg
http://www.a-whiteman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/car/arch2.jpg

Pasanger arch

http://www.a-whiteman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/car/arch3.jpg
http://www.a-whiteman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/car/arch4.jpg

Drivers door

http://www.a-whiteman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/car/door.jpg


pasanger door

http://www.a-whiteman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/car/door2.jpg

Sill (drivers side)

http://www.a-whiteman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/car/sill.jpg

Under batt (has small hole now)

http://www.a-whiteman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/car/batt.jpg

Whatya think?


thanks

AW3K

[whitey]

LMAO at that its nothing!

Just buy some filler and fibreglass, rub down all the rust and knock out any with a screw driver or something! Make sure its ALL gone! Then fibreglass or/and fill over the area.
Obviously this will need spraying so how you mean to go about it is upto you!

[ydg27]

if you have the facilities then you whould weld it as it does a better job but a body shop would probably charge you for a days labour (3 or 4 hours) and for the spraying
it would cost about ?100 tops!

[Chris LR]

You can also get replacement panels for the arches, but yours loo ktoo good to need em, I wouldn't worry about the other stuff either.

Just stick some tape over it to get it thru any MOT.

[_JH_]

get some spinning wire brush attachments for your drill, will help no end in cleaning away any rust, and leave only solid metal. you may only need soft filler, like isopon p38, for bits were the metal will just be a little lumpy, providing you have got rid of ALL rust. harder fillers, like isopon p40, are more for bridging gaps in bodywork, but if you can use it and still have a nice finish, then it will last longer than softer fillers, as if you dont do quite a good enough job getting rid of the rust, you will find the filler starts to fall off in lumps over time as the rust expands underneath it.

(i sound like a fcuking isopon rep, lol)

[AW3K]

thanks ppl

How long would it take me to get it to the stage ready for primeing?

Was thinking about aving a ago on sunday.

so what stuff would i need then?

p40 filler
various wet and dry papers
that wire brush thing for the drill

Do i need any fibreglass then?

What about rust treatment stuff???


Got a Zinc primer and the colour paint, will i need owt else?


Thanks

AW3K

[ade]

ok - rust on doors - fix that easy - sand back all paint rust 4" around hole, best treating from the inside of the door aswell and if you can fibreglass it from the inside. Outside fill with P38 and sand smooth sand dry from 240 to 800 wet n dry (dry).

Then you should prime and spray, feathering into the rest of the door to hide the spray line (mask off the car except the door). Clean panel prior to painting using panel wipe of similar

Prime - 3 coats lightly - not thick (2 mins between coats) - allow to dry for 24 hours then smooth with 800-1000wet n dry (dry). Clean off using panel wipe or similar

Spray top coat evenly as with primer. You will more than likely notice the colour will be slightly different to the rest of the car (depending on the amount of fade) - for the door, best to mask up to the 1st line in the door but dont run a solid line of masking tape across it (this will cause a hard line) - get a bit of newspeper, tape it to the door along the above line so the paper covers the area to be sprayed. Then lift the paper up, back on itself (like pulling the duvet back on a bed) and tape it up the top. this will create a soft line to spray up to. the soft line will create a vortex so a hard line cant form. DONT fold this area flat - leave it curved. This will allow you to feather it in.

Spray 3 coats as with primer - allow to dry 2 mins between coats. Allow to dry 48 hours. Then remove masking tape carefully. You can use rubbing compound or t-cut to blend the colour in after about a week - give paint time to harden. DO NOT do it sooner (especially if using cans).

As for arch - the bubbles on the top of the arch look like the rust is coming from behind the paint which suggests teither water has got under the paint and bumbbled up or worse has compromised the actual panel and bubbled. Either way you need to remove the whole area fully.

Looking at the arch looks like the join between the inner and outer arch may well have been compromised (as that bubbled angled look about it - especially at the top) - this could be a big job. Best thing to do it remove the inner 1/4 trim from the car and look in the gap around the arch/down the bottom area. If you can see daylight or rust (poke about) then you will need to remove all this and rebuuild using fibreglass or weld it. I rebuilt mine with fibreglass significantly - I seperated by inner and outer arch (needed to break welds and remove rubber seal), cleaned up the arch, the pot rivitted back in place, sealed with resin/fibreglass, sealed inside of arch from inside of car with fibreglass, then rebuild the outside under the wheel arch with fibreglass - v v solid. I then had to reconstruct the corner (I had no corner!) with fibreglass and seal from both sides.

Took me about a week but you would never know.

Remember, what ever you do when you come to respray your rear arch, you WILL need to be v confident on respray coz you need to take sanding line up at least 3" above rust on top of arch and to blend in with reat of 1/4 panel takes skill (body shop usually respray whole side of car).

To be honest, I;d save up and take it to a body shop and ask then to derust and respray - ?500/?800 for v good job.

If doing yourself, get a bodywork book - haynes do an excellent one (?20) based on a VW Golf. And remember to reseal the inner areas using waxoyl. (something I forgot to do on one of my wings and am now paying for it by a little bit of inner rust :evil: :evil: )

[CP]

If you want it to look mint let the professionals do it.
Home based DIY jobs with aerosols etc never look good, and dont last I'm afraid. OK for very small areas but otherwise not really upto the job. Sorry to anyone who has done it but its the truth - I've tried alsorts.

Ade's summary is very good but one thing I disagree about is Waxoyl. Dont bother with it for under wings etc and places difficult to get at it. Its main problem is it doesnt spread - it only seals up where it lands. I've taken wings/sills etc off waxoyled cars to find that its been next to useless.
For years I have been successfully using 2 much better options - clean unused oil (not old engine oil its full of acid)and/or machinery grease. They spread into the rust and slowly strangle it. When you have completed the work on your rust take the trim off inside and get oil into the rear arches etc behind where the rust has been. Clean the inside of you wheel arches off and paint grease on where its been rusty. Check and re- do once or twice a year as necessary. Its best done in the summer when its dry

[AW3K]

well i atempted the drivers side arch today. while cleaning the rust off with a dremal and a wire brush bit about an inch or so of the arch fell off! so i had to rebuild using alloy mesh and P40. then P38.

it sill needs work tho. filler needs smoothing back etc.


Ade m8 thank you for that such a long reply, much appeciated.

but this may sound daft but how do i feather the paint?

sorry am a newen with boddy work


Thanks

AW3K

[ade]

feathering is a skilled technique. Basically its blending the new paint into the old. If youre using cans you'll have a job.

If its the front wing youre doing Id respray the whole wing - the prob there though is that you need to hope that the paint work hasnt faded so much it stands out. Most body shops respray whole panels and then some surrounding ones to blend it all in.

Feathering paint requires you (with a proper spray gun) to use thinned down paint (using paint thinners) over existing keyed areas around the esisting fresh paint. The extra thinners are supposed to losen the old paint and make the new "blend" in. However if you dont get it bang on it will f00k the old paint, cause runs (thinners is runny!) and can make a real mess!

Feathering (sanding) requires you to sand an area so that youre making a less noticeable dip. A cars paint system is made up of layers. Bare metal, etch primer, primer, paint. If you sand back to metal in an area you create a dip or valley. feathering lessens this valley so that each layer is visible around the sanded area. That way when you spray youre intention is to build up the paint in the valleyed area and feather it out to the top area, so that when youve finished its all smooth and flat. Again a difficult task.

If you intend to DIY bodywork, try this book - avbailable through car mechanics magazine

Car Mechanics - Panel beating and paint refinishing
?14.99
websitr at Kelsey Publishing (dunno it exactly though) - this deals available through subscription but I'm sure they sell them seperately.

Word of advise - CP's method is excellent but please dont apply oil to an area you intend to paint - the paint will NOT stick. Apply the pain area 1st (treat areas to be painted that have rust with special rust inhibitors or remove rust totally) - once a panel is sprayer, seal all exposed areas with oil or other sealents. I find grey stripe good. Rocker Shutz is also good (used on stone shipped areas, sills etc...)

Waxoyl is ok on areas like inner doors - areas where there isnt much water or wing coz it will blow off eventually. You could also try bitumen paint.

Ade
:wink:

[mikeoxford]

them pics are nothing mate its so easily reapairable!

i have seen a LOT worse

[AW3K]

I have got my drivers arch to the primmer stage now.

Is there enough primmer on i think there are about 4 or 5 coats each rubbed back with 1200 wet and dry (wet)

how many top coats will i need? do i rub these back also between coats?


what about when i have finished do i leave it for a few weeks to harden befor blending it in?


what about laqure do i need it?


thanks

AW3K