What engine to use ?

[coulter]

I have my nova striped right back to the last and want to make a fast road/ track day car, i know the easyest way of more power is 2l but from wat i been told they dont handle very well, i have a single point injion 1.4 8v engine coming my way if i want it, thinking of porting, polishin, carbs and cams but unsure of wat to go for. The number one goal is keep wight down. thanks for reading it look forward to reading ur replys

[auzzy2000]

well my 2.0l handles ok so dunno who said that they dont.down to the driver really.Ive had loads of cars in the last 20 years and i havnt had as much fun in anything else but my nova.

[16v Nova Kev]

whoever told you that 2.0 novas dont handle probably was using the wrong suspension

[MattBrown]

whoever told you that 2.0 novas dont handle probably was using the wrong suspension

Correct, been in afew decent, and alot of crappy 2.0l xe cars!

Example, srs-1 (Sean) is on top coilovers all round, and his is awesome!


Also, ifyou can get an mpi setup for your 1400, they have been known to make 100+ bhp on the rollers, without much work!

And they go like fook down the lanes:thumb:

[let_nova]

theres no replacement for displacement...

[craig green]

well my 2.0l handles ok so dunno who said that they dont.

There is a whole world wide-web of topical discussion about the matter. lol

This is going to turn into a big-block/small-block debate.:roll:

IMO you choose paying out for conversion shafts & mounts with easy 150bhp, or take the simpler route of using a 1600 or 1400 installation & paying more to chase 150+bhp figures.

[auzzy2000]

There is a whole world wide-web of topical discussion about the matter. lol

This is going to turn into a big-block/small-block debate.:roll:

IMO you choose paying out for conversion shafts & mounts with easy 150bhp, or take the simpler route of using a 1600 or 1400 installation & paying more to chase 150+bhp figures. :thumb:

[coulter]

But surly a 2l has to be heavyer than the 1.4 and i realy set out with the goal of light wight, criag green is making alot of sence witch sorta made my mind up for me and i will stick to my guns, can u tell me wat is a mpi conversion ? i will try get some photos up and let u know how i get on with it, i am new to the site but rallyed novas all my life. thanks for the advise so far guys

[Rich]

I would go for the 2ltr, had a 1.6gsi engine in mine and it was slow, 2ltr is a hell of a lot faster and for the money it costs its also the better option. Tuning a 1400/1600 you ill end up with 150 but very empty pockets.

The money you dont spend on tuning a small engine can be spent on a decent set of suspension and a quaiffe diff

have a look through some trackday threads/videos of how an xe can handle

[let_nova]

yes.... 1.4-1.6 is SLIGHTLY lighter but less powerfull than the 2ltr 16v. the 2ltr power to weight will be more than the standard 1.4-1.6 and the money involved in getting the 1.4- 1.6 up to the power of the 2ltr you could of bought a 2ltr and done a couple of mods for more power...

[coulter]

i will check it out i been told the 2ls like torque stear alot as well. Power is not my goal its speed and handling

[16v Nova Kev]

build a good 1.6 turbo

[chris gsi]

if you want the small engine on carbs i would use the 1.6 gte/gsi engine with the carbs as the 1.6 makes more power standard the the 1.4 would with just carbs on

or just stick the c20xe with good suspension

but get insurance quotes to help you decide

[coulter]

1.6s 8v ? also very hard to find tho

[let_nova]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oVsa1s6RjQ&feature=related

[AlexW]

a 1.6 16v are a good idea, powerbox and cams, 120-130 bhp. Total cost of about £250. The same price as a decent XE. Im biast of course.

Price up both, decent suspension, shafts, mounts for a xe, compared to buying the smallblock xe and the mods.

[AlexW]

1.6s 8v ? also very hard to find tho

Not at all, mk3 astra.

[coulter]

i have motor traders insurance so i am ok that way

[coulter]

i didnt know that about the astra, will it fit in handy ? there ent to much diffrance in the wight so that could be worth doing

[craig green]

All relevant points so far. I dont disagree with any of the pro Big block argument.

factor in that most XE donor engines (2.0 16v) will be well past their best & ideally rebuilt, which adds massively to the costs. Arguably there are more Tigra & Corsa donor engines with lower miles & easier lives under their belts.

At the end of the day, many a worthy Nova has been built using all of the engines mentioned so far. Whatever you choose, stand by your decision, implement it well & brag about it when it's finished!

[coulter]

All relevant points so far. I dont disagree with any of the pro Big block argument.

factor in that most XE donor engines (2.0 16v) will be well past their best & ideally rebuilt, which adds massively to the costs. Arguably there are more Tigra & Corsa donor engines with lower miles & easier lives under their belts.

At the end of the day, many a worthy Nova has been built using all of the engines mentioned so far. Whatever you choose, stand by your decision, implement it well & brag about it when it's finished!

Thats some of the best advise i ever herd i would like to know more about the mpi thing ? also if was to go for a 1.6 16v how much more work is there in fitting it ?

[coulter]

also i have my bilistiens (yellows) waitin to go into the car, want to carry out the gear linkage converson from the cavaler is there any links on this ?

[craig green]

MPi is multi point fuel injection (1 injector per cylinder).
SPi is single point. Bit like a downdraught carb but with a single large fuel injector (pants).

Fitting a 1.6 16v is the same as fitting the 8v or any sub 1600 ebgine. Same mounts & gearboxes. 2.0 needs the matching bigger box, special shafts to fit & different mounts. Then typically all the same 6 or so wires to make them run. You will need an injection tank & pump to work with the MPi engines.

Dar wrote a guide on fitting the cav internal shifter.

Use the search function mate, or read trhrough project threads, people are doing it & talking about all this stuff daily. My project thread showe me installing a 1600 16v into a GSi.

[AlexW]

Have a read of the smallblock fitting guide in articals, rough guide.

a 2.0 will need a alternator cut out in the chassis leg, smallblock wont need nowt.

[coulter]

thats great thanks so 1.6 16 would be a better way to go than 1.4 8v and to change the 1.4 8 to muiltpoint would be a hell of alot of work, i dont mine the work i am a mechinic, but just wondering know is it worth it 1.6 could be a good choice is that the eco tech one ?

[craig green]

a 2.0 will need a alternator cut out in the chassis leg, smallblock wont need nowt.

Well remembered.

yeah Coulter, get a Corsa or tigra 1.6 16V.

[coulter]

is that the same for the astra ?

[AlexW]

As long as its a astra 1.6 16v lol.

They are indeed ecotec. Ignore the bad rep about them, me and craig both know there not unreliable. There much easyer (per bhp) to tune than a 8v.

Without any mods there 100ish bhp. Cant go wrong.

[coulter]

yea and just change the timing belt kit and they ent to bad i been told, is there much wiring with them ?

[AlexW]

Depending if you go for the earlier corsa GSI engine (C16XE) is about 7 wires, or the later X16XE as found in most is about 10 wires, imobliser stuff is the thing to play around with but its easy to do. I should know!

The only other thing you may have to change is the alternator and bottom pully for a single V type, altho i run the standard wide belt on my nova.

Sounds like a lot of work, but its easier than a 2.0 lol

[coulter]

And is there a better of the 2 ? i know the knewer one has a nicer looking cover lol, will i be needing the eninge loom or just all the sensors in the engine

[AlexW]

Engine covers are the same, one says vauxhall, other says ecotec :)

The C16XE has slightly more power, AFM and some other different items, as well as no immobilizer. But once you mod it you wouldn't notice the difference really. C16XE has no EGR valve, where as X16XE does. Although the blanking plate is about £2.50 so.

[coulter]

its just a case of wat i can find at the right price then,wats a z16xer then ?

[AlexW]

Preety much, Personally i wouldn't pay more than £200 for a engine.

Z16XER is from what i remember a rubbish newer engine lol.

[coulter]

and some one talked about a power box is this just a plug into the ecu thing ?

[AlexW]

Powerbox is a inlet, basicaly replaces the uber long (think 100ft with about 1 millon 90degree bends) and power sapping inlet and changes it for a better designed one, you may hear it called a manzel style or etc.

Il have a quick look for pics so you can get a idea.

Edit: This is the standard engine (in my own tigra)
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/AW_06/HPIM1871.jpg

And this is the same engine in a corsa. The manzel is the obvious box that is the inlet. Im sure your not blind lol
http://designercars.nl/biler/Opel-Corsa-68.jpg

[coulter]

that would be great thanks, will i need the loom ? I am off work tomorrow so i will get some pics of the car as she is atm

[AlexW]

Indeed your need the loom from the doner car, and the ecu, imobliser pickup (sits around the ign barrel inside the cowling) and the chip out of the key, only needed on a X16XE.

Is your car carb or injection at the mo?

[coulter]

atm the mine i have a choice of ether or i have 2 looms one none inj one inj i would rather have the none inj loom tho, with the chip from the key can i just take the key and turn it into a fob so the car will have to imobliser ?

[AlexW]

If yours is spi you could go for the standard spi tank with a mk3 astra mpi pump, if its carb you would be better off getting a 1.6 GTE/GSI fuel tank and pump.

Slighty confused as by what you mean with the 2nd bit, in the corsa the key has the chip inside (it has to be within a certain distance of the pickup), the best thing to do is do it permanently and get a decent alarm/imob.

Hope that makes it easy to understand.

[coulter]

any way around the imobliser ? just i wouldnt be a fan of them lol

[AlexW]

Nope. Ive had the one in my nova for about 9months without a problem, once its wired up just forget about it lol

[coulter]

so an engine from a 98 astra would do 1.6 16v ?

[coulter]

or this http://belfast.gumtree.com/belfast/12/47991512.html ?

[Jack]

i will check it out i been told the 2ls like torque stear alot as well.
Mine was fine; again with decent suspension and good tyres it will stay straight.


a 2.0 will need a alternator cut out in the chassis leg, smallblock wont need nowt.
Not always; I'm 99% sure Dar's didn't need it.

I've never driven in a 1600 (8v or 16v), but my XE wasn't tarmac shreddingly fast so wouldn't assume a 1600 to be either (nippy, yes; fast, probably not). Point to point the Celica was noticeably faster that my saloon with the XE. All depends what you're used to though I suppose.

Sod the handling and V6 the fcuker lol

[coulter]

or this http://belfast.gumtree.com/belfast/12/47991512.html ?

will engine fit in is it the x16xe?

[Jack]

Should be

[Stuart]

oh so much text typing and wrongess in this thread lol.

there are many many things that can atribute torque steer, and many things to reduce/get rid of it (eg good tyres and suspension, diff, equal length drive shafts, not driving like a tool to make it a problem etc).

Craigs advice FTW!

[coulter]

I have made my mind up going for a 1.6 16v but need to be sure the engine in this car will work 1st, is this the one with the imboliser ? thanks for all the help so far.

[AlexW]

Should be a X16XE yes, indeed will have imobliser stuff.

[coulter]

Thanks i been going around all the brakers and the very only one i found they wanted over 200 for so i think is probly the best opition.