turbos for c20let

[alan b]

ive been snooping around at different turbos possible for my engine when i rebuild it,
first i was thinkin of a t3, but heard this isnt realy a great upgrade as theyll only flow so much, ive now been looking at gt28's which seem to be pretty cheap, but cant really find any info or if anyone has used one, anyway i just want to see what most people are running and what they think of them! cheers!:thumb:

[Paul]

i know its obvious, but the joy in a hybrid kkk is that it fits.

To get a garret turbo onto a LET requires; manifold, water pipes, oil pipes, turbo itself, downpipe, air induction pipe, boost pipes.

So if youre not after megapower stick with a hybrid KKK.

the gt2860rs flows 250-360bhp. i am using a 0.55 T34 flows up to 400ish bhp

[alan b]

whats the t34 like? is it laggy? size wise? where do hybrid kkk?

[Paul]

Turbo Technics S144 Turbo is a good hybrid upgrade.

T34 is good, wont fit in with standard rad and 3" downpipe

[alan b]

thats what i was thinking about the rad but ive moved my rad forward already, have you seen anyone run a gt 28?

[Count Vaux Alot]

We (universal turbos) do a hybrid KKK we can actually use your unit and upgrade it so saves on cost - Paul is right i what he says about retro fitting a different unit ie complications costs etc but the gt28 ball bearing unit is a very good turbo for reliability and power. It all depends on what power etc etc your after.

Follow the link in my sig and give us a call for some advice and a quote :thumb:

[let_nova]

i too am very intrested in this

[let_nova]

We (universal turbos) do a hybrid KKK we can actually use your unit and upgrade it so saves on cost - Paul is right i what he says about retro fitting a different unit ie complications costs etc but the gt28 ball bearing unit is a very good turbo for reliability and power. It all depends on what power etc etc your after.

Follow the link in my sig and give us a call for some advice and a quote :thumb:

i will call tommorow., do you get commision if we mention you lol:thumb:

[Count Vaux Alot]

lol no i'm not on commission unfortunately, no one wouldn't know who the funk count vaux alot was any way lol

[let_nova]

lol. i emailed you guys a while back but got no reply.

[Count Vaux Alot]

Its best to call and just expalin what your after - you need to have in mind what power you want etc

[let_nova]

was going to go down the big power route with fannimould etc. what kind of power will a good hybrid cope with?

[Paul]

300-320 at a push

[let_nova]

would 300 be a "safe" figure for prolonged use?

[krobinson]

I'm running a hybrid KKK done by universal turbos.

Made 260bhp at 0.8BAR on phase 2.

Going to wind the actuator up next year with a RR session and see what I can achieve.

[let_nova]

that is good. im running standard kkk ran 0.4 bar and got 208.8 lol

[Paul]

a KKK screaming its nuts out at 1.4bar will make 290-300bhp

The hybrid unit will make only a bit more power, but at a bit less boost and inneviatebly (sp.) be much more reliable, as its not working as hard, not as hot etc etc...

Count feel free to correct me if im wrong, but thats what info i gathered on them before i decided which route to go down.

[let_nova]

hmm on that information i think i will go dowm the manifold and bigger turbo route

rep left.

[Paul]

the hybrid turbo is £700ish

A rebuilt Garrett turbo is £800ish

Manifold £200+

Gaskets £30

Oil Feed + Return £20

Water Pipes £20

Downpipe £100+

Boost Pipes £50+

Move Rad if need be

Its double the price for a garrett turbo atleast, dont forget that.

The beauty of the hybrid unit is that it fits, bolt off bolt on.

[let_nova]

very true. but it gives me more scope for power later. i do see your point though. i will have a think about it.

[Count Vaux Alot]

Try this chart from Garrett themselves its very helpful, there web site is here (http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/) go to 'products' in the menu bar then catalog its a pdf have a good read through, there is loads of info but it really is all you need to know and more - the sky is the limit power wise its just a case of £££ once your on to 'big' power.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/Track%20day%20nova/Turboinfo.jpg


Obviously more power is achievable from an after market unit but more power = more cost.
On the other hand reliability and durability are increased, spool up time will decrease, they develop more power on less boost than the standard smaller unit so are more reliable but you can obviously up the boost when the time comes to upgrade further.

I will say your engine, breather pipes and oil ways need to be in the up most of good condition to avoid any issues.

[let_nova]

if i was to "exchange or get my nit upgraded " roughly what is the cost? as paul says £700?

[Count Vaux Alot]

a KKK screaming its nuts out at 1.4bar will make 290-300bhp

The hybrid unit will make only a bit more power, but at a bit less boost and inneviatebly (sp.) be much more reliable, as its not working as hard, not as hot etc etc...

Count feel free to correct me if im wrong, but thats what info i gathered on them before i decided which route to go down.

You are correct in what you say above and on the differences when considering price and the other options you need to take into account when taking the garrett route it really is a case of power against the £ .

If you not casing massive power then i would go with the upgraded k16 as its a much simpler option.

[Count Vaux Alot]

if i was to "exchange or get my nit upgraded " roughly what is the cost? as paul says £700?


Again it depends how far you want to go with the upgrade as there are several options - comp wheel upgrade alone, comp wheel and 360 degree bearing, uprated actuator, cut back turbine wheel, enlarged waste gate valve flap and ported waste gate etc etc

I would have thought £700 would see a reasonable amount of 'upgrade' work but i'm not 100% sure on exact prices

[Rich]

Ive been thinking of the upgraded k16 since count vaux alot pm'd me and mentioned it. Im going to look into having mine ported with a better/uprated compressor wheel. Will only be running evo 5 software but im aware this is usualy at the k16 limits. Hopfully with it uprated it should be more reliable and give that slight increase in power to break the 300bhp mark safly. Another thing is making sure the turbo is in good order before putting it on my nice fresh engine, last thing i want is a smokey/noisy turbo

If anyone calls universal turbos (or any other companies?) please post your findings in this thread regarding pricing etc. Im a while off and would only be wasting their time if i called

[alan b]

good stuff guys some good info there, i have a manifold with a flange suitable for a gt28 already, just need to get around to changing the flange, hoping for a reliable 300-320 really, altho im afraid of lag, a mate of mine has an evo with a gt35 and its mega laggy, where as on his old roller bearing'd td05 it was far nicer to drive hmm more to think about!

[Paul]

The power delivery of my t34 conpared to the old kk is complwtely different. It comes in later harder and lasts longer through the rev range, its like getting used to a different car again.

[Count Vaux Alot]

good stuff guys some good info there, i have a manifold with a flange suitable for a gt28 already, just need to get around to changing the flange, hoping for a reliable 300-320 really, altho im afraid of lag, a mate of mine has an evo with a gt35 and its mega laggy, where as on his old roller bearing'd td05 it was far nicer to drive hmm more to think about!

The gt28 shouldn't be laggy at all the ball bearings are very smooth and its a good sized medium frame unit well suited to an xe sized engine, the gt35 is much larger hence the lag and it also depends on how they are set up etc and the spec the turbo is build to (the internaly can differ but the fram size can stay the same)

[Count Vaux Alot]

Ive been thinking of the upgraded k16 since count vaux alot pm'd me and mentioned it. Im going to look into having mine ported with a better/uprated compressor wheel. Will only be running evo 5 software but im aware this is usualy at the k16 limits. Hopfully with it uprated it should be more reliable and give that slight increase in power to break the 300bhp mark safly. Another thing is making sure the turbo is in good order before putting it on my nice fresh engine, last thing i want is a smokey/noisy turbo

If anyone calls universal turbos (or any other companies?) please post your findings in this thread regarding pricing etc. Im a while off and would only be wasting their time if i called

I had an ask at work today and an uprated K16 with new bearing housing (the bit between the comp cover and the turbine housing that contains the bearinds (duh) and the shaft etc), full rebuild kit, upgraded comp wheel, balance etc comes in at around £595 + vat. we collect your unit and deliver it back to you.
So no worries of smoke or noise from the turbo.

I will add that 90% of all turbo failures are due to the engine or another factor put side of the turbo ie split boost pipe, blocked/restricted oil feed/drain, faulty control valves, carbonisation of oil, dirt ingress and so on.
Consequently you must ensure everything else is as it should be prior to fitting and new turbo.

[Rich]

Cheers mate, is that a bigger compressor wheel or same size just better?

[alan b]

I will add that 90% of all turbo failures are due to the engine or another factor put side of the turbo ie split boost pipe, blocked/restricted oil feed/drain, faulty control valves, carbonisation of oil, dirt ingress and so on.
Consequently you must ensure everything else is as it should be prior to fitting and new turbo.

interesting that! think im leaning towards a gt28, there both oil and water cooled arnt they?

@paul t34 what kind of money are a rebuilt one? they a 4wd cossie turbi?

[Count Vaux Alot]

Cheers mate, is that a bigger compressor wheel or same size just better?

Both - its a larger wheel with a more advanced/modern blade arrangement and profile, the compressor cover is enlarged to suite the wheel accordingly giving good results all round.

[Rich]

Cool think youve just made my mind up. How about some png discount? :p

[Count Vaux Alot]

Discount might be possible in a group buy i would have to ask...any other queries i might be able to sort out for anyone?

[let_nova]

yes, me. with you saying that price and all your sales pitch i think i may go down this route.

[Count Vaux Alot]

Its not really a sales pitch i'm an engineer not a sales man, its just the facts about what we do lol

[let_nova]

lol it was a joke.

[Count Vaux Alot]

- inserts laughing lol

[MK999]

Discount might be possible in a group buy i would have to ask...any other queries i might be able to sort out for anyone?

Can you turblow my E16SE for under a tenner? Needs more poke on a student budget lol

actually, I posted that as a joke, but... It has given me a somewhat evil idea lol *goes looking at turbo bits*

[Paul]

New t34 is about a grand. Rebuild is 400-600 depending where u go. Then u have to buy a unit to rebuild.

[R1CH]

Discount might be possible in a group buy i would have to ask...any other queries i might be able to sort out for anyone?

Whats the trim size of the new compressor wheel, Take it its the same diameter as the standard one (just a larger trim) ?
Are you able to supply these larger compressor wheels and modified compressor housings or do you only supply them during a rebuild / upgrade ?
Any chance of a price on a rebuild kit (bearings / piston rings / circlips ect...) and a shaft wheel assembly ?

Cheers

[R1CH]

Discount might be possible in a group buy i would have to ask...any other queries i might be able to sort out for anyone?


Whats the trim size of the new compressor wheel, Take it its the same diameter as the standard one (just a larger trim) ?
Are you able to supply these larger compressor wheels and modified compressor housings or do you only supply them during a rebuild / upgrade ?
Any chance of a price on a rebuild kit (bearings / piston rings / circlips ect...) and a shaft wheel assembly ?

Cheers

Any info on this fella ?

[Count Vaux Alot]

I was off on fri but i'm back in wk tomorrow so i will enquire.

[dan16v]

My nova runs a hybrid garret T3, it spools up mega fast!, very pleased with how it makes it's power, running 1.2 bar with a 1.6 bar spike. If i was after more power i would choose a gt28rs. The escort cosworth i have uses the t34 and it seems very laggy.

[R1CH]

I was off on fri but i'm back in wk tomorrow so i will enquire.

Any luck getting info on this ?
:thumb:

[Count Vaux Alot]

Yes - i haven't forgotten, basically we have just done an upgrade on a k16 so i have taken some pics to accompany the info which i will post up once i can get the bastid photos off my sh!t piece phone!

[alan b]

oh nice looking foward to that!

[Count Vaux Alot]

Whats the trim size of the new compressor wheel, Take it its the same diameter as the standard one (just a larger trim) ?
Are you able to supply these larger compressor wheels and modified compressor housings or do you only supply them during a rebuild / upgrade ?
Any chance of a price on a rebuild kit (bearings / piston rings / circlips ect...) and a shaft wheel assembly ?

Cheers

Firstly i will say we only offer these modifications with a complete turbo rebuilt by our selfs basically due to warranty issues, if you were to built the turbo your self there is 99.9% chance it will be out of balance (trust me i have built a few) and it would simply destroy its self as well as making lots of noise. They are hard enough to balance on our VSR machine (it can take hours even with the right equipment!).
This also goes for the rebuild kits, as a re balane is needed after any rebuilt.

[Count Vaux Alot]

Evening everyone I will apologise again for the delay but i have been experiencing technical difficulties with my phone and its picture capturing abitities (some are poor quility so again sorry :()

Anyway here is what you guys were after.

My Boss would happily consider a group buy if enough people were interested, i would have thought 5 would be the minimum but more people would mean more discount.

Once i have a show of hands as to who is interested then i can get a price sorted out, as i said before the price for this upgrade is usually £595 +VAT so that is the starting point for the basic upgrade.

As i explained previously i was waiting to get some pics of an upgraded K16 we were doing so here goes.

This is the inside of a standard K16 compressor cover

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00548.jpg

The diameter of the inlet being 42.5mm

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00549.jpg

The compressor cover is enlarged and profiled inline with the size and shape of the new upgraded compressor wheel, it is then polished to aid flow.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00547.jpg

Bringing the compressor inlet diameter to 46.3mm, a 4mm increase is a reasonable amount.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00550.jpg

This is the original compressor wheel sitting in the original compressor cover

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00557.jpg

This is the upgraded compressor wheel sitting in the original compressor cover for size reference

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00559.jpg

The new upgraded wheels are rated to 300bhp but 320bhp has been seen with the nessessary accompanying upgrades.
This wheel is larger than the astra vxr wheel and is a new more modern design compared to the wheels we used to use (the wheel that keith robinson probably has).
It is completely different to the orignal wheel in its blade configuration (see below pics) but it is actually lighter so spools quickly.

Here is a picture of the two wheels side by side, the wheel on the right is the original wheel, note the difference in blade configuration and the cut back skirt on the new wheel (this is to aid flow and spool time)

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00555.jpg

The new wheel is wider at the top than the original wheel but due to the cut back skirt its acually a similar size at its base meaning less modification to the back plate is necessary, the modern blade configuration would be capable of flowing more air than the old configuration even if the wheel size was the same.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00556.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00565.jpg

I thought a few shols of the complete turbo might be nice to show you what the finished product looks like. This particullar upgrade included an uprated actuator and bracket.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00552.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00569.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00577.jpg

[Count Vaux Alot]

And a new waste gate valve flap and bush

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00572.jpg

The actuator and bracket

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00568.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC0057901d.jpg

And the finished product

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00573.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00574.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00575.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/Count85/universal%20turbo%20upgrades/DSC00569.jpg

[Count Vaux Alot]

no one interested in this now then lol

[Graeme]

I will be using Universal's services but I'll probably just be getting the rebuild like Keiths which was just under 400 quid iirc?

[Rich]

I will be interested when the time comes, but its going to be a good few months away.

Do you do pjs? lol

People probably havent noticed the thread due to the sites downtime, went wrong on friday night

[R1CH]

no one interested in this now then lol

Are the Compressor wheels and Housings available to buy seperatly then, or just available as part of a rebuild / upgrade ?
Do you machine the origional Compressor housing profile to suit, or press a new one into it ? pretty sure the profile section is a seperate part to the housing ?

[krobinson]

I had mine done at full cost during the build of my Car.

James, do you think i'd be on the old style compressor wheel?

Unfortunatly because of the time it took to build my car, I was out of warrenty, had only done less than 1k miles and mine started smoking. Cost over £300 just to have the oil seals re-done.

It's been fine since, i've done about 500 miles since having them done.

Mine made 260bhp @ 0.8bar.

Do you know what PSI it should make 300bhp at James?

[alan b]

likewise id be interested but not yet too close to christmas and spunked my wad sorting traction issues.

[Count Vaux Alot]

Are the Compressor wheels and Housings available to buy seperatly then, or just available as part of a rebuild / upgrade ?
Do you machine the origional Compressor housing profile to suit, or press a new one into it ? pretty sure the profile section is a seperate part to the housing ?

The compressor wheels and housings are only available as part of a rebuild/upgrade due to the issues you would have with balance if you were to try to fit them yourself.
The original comp housing is profiled to suit the new comp wheel assuming its in serviceable condition.

[Count Vaux Alot]

I had mine done at full cost during the build of my Car.

James, do you think i'd be on the old style compressor wheel?

Unfortunately because of the time it took to build my car, I was out of warranty, had only done less than 1k miles and mine started smoking. Cost over £300 just to have the oil seals re-done.

It's been fine since, i've done about 500 miles since having them done.

Mine made 260bhp @ 0.8bar.

Do you know what PSI it should make 300bhp at James?

Keith your turbo will definitely have been built using a different style wheel to the one i've pictured, however your wheel is still considerably more efficient than the original wheel.
As for boost pressure i could only suggest altering it until you have achieved your goal figure as it is dependant on your state of tune else were

[alan b]

keith around 1/1.1 bar should see 300 bhp roughly, u have a 3.5 bar fpr from v tuning dont you?

[R1CH]

The compressor wheels and housings are only available as part of a rebuild/upgrade due to the issues you would have with balance if you were to try to fit them yourself.
The original comp housing is profiled to suit the new comp wheel assuming its in serviceable condition.

I've got access to all the balancing equipment (its my job !), but thought it would be the case that you'd only supply bits during a rebuild / upgrade.
Cheers anyway tho.

[Count Vaux Alot]

Well it might have been worth mentioning that first RICH :roll:! Who do you work for?
The wheel and cover could be supplied separately i guess but you wouldn't have any guarantee/come back etc if you were to funk it up balancing it yourself.

[garethcolley]

Im interested in this, who is the new comp wheel manufactured by and is it the same material as KKK used? Generally whats the turn around for a full hybrid overhaul?

R1CH works for M-Sport WRC BTW

[krobinson]

keith around 1/1.1 bar should see 300 bhp roughly, u have a 3.5 bar fpr from v tuning dont you?

Yeah, 3.5 Bar FPR.

I have an adjustable cossie one now, but havent fitted it yet. I got that incase I needed to adjust the fueling any further when playing with the boost.