To Lower or not to Lower...

[Jim]

...that is the question.

I recently had some springs re-profiled, as I was convinced the -60mm springs I got with my Apex kit were not in fact -60mm. I got some springs re-profiled to -90mm for the back and -70mm for the front. the picture only shows the car with the rear springs as I didn't have the right spanner to do the fornt springs (even though I scoured Milton Keynes looking for one :x )

After fitting the re-profiled springs I noticed a massive difference immediatley. I'm happy with the look of the car, but the ride is so hard. I'm worried that I might have jeopardised the handling of the car, in fact, I know I have, but I hated the way the car looked before hand. I've not actually given the car a good blast to see how much these springs have affected the handling tho.

I spent ?80 getting the springs re-profiled, so I'm kinda reluctant to not put them on. Saying that, will these springs actually cause more damage to my car? I can't tell, but I think the dampers now have no play in the back, so are rendered pretty much useless, also, there is very little play in the spring itself and I'm wondering if I've replaced my old springs for basically two pieces of metal, lol :roll:

I've been told to get coilovers (which I'd love to do), but the truth is, I can't afford them. These springs were a cheap(ish) means of getting my car to look better than it did.

http://www.novaload.net/forums/album_see.php?id=443

Anyway, any comments, both technically and aesthetically will be appreciated.

Cheers,

Jim

P.S. Before the Admin *cough* Wisewood *cough* gets trigger happy and moves the post, I thought it was asking both technical related questions, and styling related questions, plus I wanted the opinion of people which is why i posted in general chat.[/img]

[wisewood]

P.S. Before the Admin *cough* Wisewood *cough* gets trigger happy and moves the post, I thought it was asking both technical related questions, and styling related questions, plus I wanted the opinion of people which is why i posted in general chat.

didnt realise i was the only admin now Jim... :lol:

... I woouldnt have moved it anyway... its more of an opinion poll than a tech question really... comes under topic of general chat quite nicely i think.


I think your car looks ace Jim...
sure whatever you choose to do next will only improve it... you have done a good job so far.

[ade]

lol!

Thats looks mint M8 - what wheels you got.

I'm intreagued by your "reprofiling" of the springs - dont you mean you just lobbed a coil off!

:lol:

Only jokin. If the rides uncomfortable it could be because the shocks are taking all the impact causing judders through the car - the springs prob arent taking at much as they should - failing that theyre too low and too compacted to make any difference! (indicated shocks are shagged)
Like you say, you may as well just weld 2 bits of metal to stop the wheels rubbing to the axle.

To be honest that looks about as low as mine does on 60mm Gmax drop.
I reckon the Apex kit you had was 40mm and either the weight of the cars shagged the rear ones or theyre shagged full stop.


Ade

[Chris_W]

Looks good Jim, but I think there's a reason it feels so bumpy.

1) You could now be running on the bump stops of the rear shocks

2) The springs are designed for a full weight car. Because yours is stripped out it will give a different effect.

Also, another point is with lower front springs you'll probably run the risk of bending front wings during hard cornering, so might be worth thinking about that before you put them on.

From a looks point of view though lower is most definately better :lol:

Chris

[Jim]

LOL Wisewood, you seem to be the only Admin on here, and I've heard what you're like when it comes to "tidying things up" ;) Thanks for the comments though.

Ade, I sent my springs to "Coilsprings" in sheffield to get them reprofiled. From what I can tell, they didn't "lob a coil off" but actually compressed them.

The shocks can't be shagged, as there only 6 months old with probably around 500 miles (if that) wear on them, lol. I've been looking into why my car seemed to sit higher than others, I think it came down to a number of factors...

1) The Apex springs might actually be a harder spring than others, so compact less under the weight of the car.

2) I have no rear seats. However, a friend of mine has exactly the same springs & shocks and he had no rear seats, yet his car still sat lower than mine :s

3) They might not have been bedded in. Ok, I might not have done much mileage, but the springs have still had the weight of the car over the period of time, so they should have dropped a little bit more than I expected.

4) I've been given in-correct springs. They are labelled up as -60mm springs, but they might actually be only -40mm.

5) I've had G-max springs before (-30mm) and the car sat lower than the Apex springs, which again suggests to me that the G-max springs are a softer spring so the car sits lower on the G-max compared to the Apex.

It's been such a dilema, lol. Had I known earlier what I know now, I would have gone for some coilovers from the very start, LOL.

Still, as I keep learing, modifying is never easy, lol.

Jim

[wisewood]

LOL Wisewood, you seem to be the only Admin on here, and I've heard what you're like when it comes to "tidying things up" ;) Thanks for the comments though.



lmfao - i suppose through the day i am pretty much the only one around...
my vigourous tidying has caused me many an arguement i can tell you :lol: Will's FFS MR CONTROL FREAK post standing out in my mind most of all :lol:

[Jim]

what wheels you got.

There 100+ Tornados in Anthracite.


1) You could now be running on the bump stops of the rear shocks

2) The springs are designed for a full weight car. Because yours is stripped out it will give a different effect.

Also, another point is with lower front springs you'll probably run the risk of bending front wings during hard cornering, so might be worth thinking about that before you put them on.

I'm starting to agree that I'm running on the bumpstops :|

With the front springs, they "should" only be 1cm lower than the car currently is. Again, because I'm not actually using Apex springs, chances are it will sit lower than I thought it would.

Bugger and Do'h! Springs to mind, lol.

Jim

[Ste_Nova]

cut down the rear bumpstops to the minimum

[RobIsGrt18]

jim m8 ya cars getting sweeter and sweeter everytime i see it :D!!

looks really good that low!!

[Anton]

keep it low.

looks sweet as a nut mate.

I look foward to seeing it in the flesh sometime :D

[techie]

Jim,

Looks like its sitting about the same a smine at the back now. Ive got -60mm Gmax set up but I have still got a full interior, so you look like you have compensated for that.

Fit the front springs (Ill give you a hand and tools if you need them) and see how you get on. Also get the shorter poly bumpstops for the front.

Car looks mint btw. I got an Ibiza front splitter, gonna fit it to my new front bumper :lol:

[mikeoxford]

lol!

Thats looks mint M8 - what wheels you got.

ones he wants to sell to me :lol: honnest!

jim mate your car looks sweet, i would put up with the harsher ride, its probly because your not used to it, but obviously just wait to hear of the guys on here if your doing damage as you dont want that

but yes it does look ACE the way it is

[Jim]

Right, now im even more confused as to what to do :?

I drove home from work with JKhilton and I thought I'll see how it handles. Well, it handled pretty good, lol. I know there might be some mental trick being played on myself because Im wanting it to handle better, but going round corners and accelerating out of them was amazing. Coming out of the corners was like a slingshot affect. I seemed to get more speed out of the corner and that was with 2 people in the car.

JK definatley noticed an improvement (I could tell he was impressed by the way he was grabbing onto the roof handle, which reminds me, I'll have to remove them - extra unnecessary weight ;)) Anyway, JK and I were discussing the situation along the way home. On flat roads, it seems fine, great in fact, but when theres an uneven surface I lost a bit of grip, which is to be expected I suppose.

Anyway, some technical feedback as to what damage I could be causing my car would be appreciated. Thanks for all your comments so far. I'll keep you posted how I get on.

Jim

[Slatter]

Jim dont worry about it

With my coilovers i have no travel wotsoever !!!!!!

i will bring my car over 4 u to see it. u cant fit ure little finger between the front wheel and wheel arch ....... but like u say it may aswell just me metal weled in cos there is no suspension :roll:

[locky]

Slimjim, ur car is lush! looks really clean n shiney!

[whitey]

SLIM, im tempted to get some wheels in that colour! Not sure though! Looks mint! Deffo ditterent to silver!

Are you hapy with them or do you kinda wish u got silver!? Silly question in a way i know! But i just really CANT decide!

BLACK CAR - SILVER WHEELS

OR

BLACK CAR - BLACK/SILVER WHEELS

And no, silver car doesnt come into it!

[Jim]

Whitey, I've had silver wheels on my car before. I like my multi spoke Alloys, I had some Smith Multispokes before in silver. They looked pretty good.

I saw the wheels i have now on a friends Red Nova, they looked really good. He wanted to sell them and I happened to see a Black golf with black wheels and thought it looked pretty good. I'm in no way dissapointed with the Alloys, I love them to pieces. I've seen some other Black Alloys that I'm tempted to get, I'm definatley happy with the black Alloys, Black car look. I think I've only seen one other Nova with the same combination.

Micky, I might have ago at trimming the bumpstops down, Techie was telling me about some after market ones that I can buy that are actually shorter than the standard ones, so i might look into that.

Cheers for your comments

Jim

[mikeoxford]

I've seen some other Black Alloys that I'm tempted to get,

yeah and sell me yours hey jim matey :lol: :wink: :wink: :wink:

[whitey]

Ive seen your multispkoes Im sure of it, you got a private plate beginnin with J!?

Just REALLY not sure!

What size are they? 15's or 16's? Look like 15's to me!

You know what I mean? Black is different and badboy but silver is flash and "look at me" surpose they are less hassle to keep clean but more of a **** if you kurb em!?!

[Jim]

Yeah, thats the one Whitey.

The silver alloys were 15's, the black ones are 16's.

Neither of them are easier to keep clean. People say black doesn't show up the dirt, it's quite the opposite in fact. If you look after your wheels and give them a quick clean each week you should be able to stop them from getting a build up of brake dust and other debris.

It's your cash, your car, have a think. You've seen my car with black and silver wheels, yours wont look too dis-similar.

Jim

[whitey]

Cheers m8

[ade]

Damage to bodywise...

Lower suspension will add stress as Micky said - so kleep an eye on your suspension posts (fit a strut brace/roll bars to stiffen up)

Rough roads will send shocks through the car more so things will work loose and you'll develop squeeks and rattles more often.

Keep an eye on your suspension/tiebars/general underside - lower car will catch stuff more often. Galsgow council are currently blowing the last of the budget of road surfaces and theres hundreds of raised manholes and "ramps" (bloody 4" high curbs more like) that can cause some nasty sump/splitter scrubbage!

Watch yer wings and inner arches on the rear for rubbing

If you drive on your own, stick a concrete slab in the back as a counter weight - with less weight in the back, your car will be lighter on the rear and at speed may slide - a weight (equivalent to having a light JKHilton in the front) will assist with road holding - will also help bed srings in.

If not done fit poly bushes


ade

[CP]

TBH the only way to avoid hitting the bump stops or getting coilbound as you get really low is to go to adjustable coilovers and try and get a bit softer rated springs with them. That way you can go lower and still not be rock solid but it would require some hunting around cos generally coilovers run hard springs.
As regards driving characteristics, setting the car lower with less vertical wheel movement and harder springs will reduce body roll & improve handling ie cornering but only upto a point and thats determined by the road surface. The rougher the road the less you should lower the car and the softer the springs should be set. Its only by trial and error that you will come to the correct compromise for the road surfaces you usually drive on. If you get too hard and low you will lose traction as the car bounces over undulations

The only other soultion is an air suspension set up. For a few hundrd quid you can buy lorry style air suspension which is a rubber inflatable dome that sits in your springs. That way you can lift the car when driving and then slam it right to the deck when parked with the use of a small electric air pump. :lol: