FAO RJ (law/wage issues)

[Tidy Max]

Alrite chaps (RJ), sorry to bother with another apprenitceship plight,

as of august the 2nd i will have been working for this company for a 1year, meaning i should go up a pay bracket, i think my boss is going to try and keep me below minimum wage, whats the deal law wise?

as he has a law degree and will argue the case as best he can, i just want a couple of facts/laws which i can use, thanks again

this is the page where the wage scale is...
http://www.jib.org.uk/publications/JIB553.pdf


im getting armed for an argument, as we had our skip tipped out infront of our unit due to him not paying the skip guy on time, me and the other lad have just emptied it all into a new skip,

before i get the "thats what an apprenticeship is matey blabla" is it balls,

an apprenticeship is a job where i can an oppurtunity to legally practise my chosen trade whilst being unqualified, and in return for this oppurtunity i get paid low and get the crap jobs, which i undoubtedly knew and was ready for before i took the job

a year on an i have no electrical experience, so please, only legal issue replies, thanks again

[Jack]

Minimum wage for 21 year olds that are no longer in their first year of apprenticeship is £4.77 an hour (rising to £4.83 this October). When you turn 22 in April next year, that will rise again to £5.73.

From direct.gov.uk:


Who is a worker for NMW purposes?
If you have an employment contract you are an employee and therefore a worker for the purpose of the National Minimum Wage (NMW) rules.

Apprentices
If you are aged 19 or over and have completed the first year of your apprenticeship you are entitled to the NMW. Apprentices for NMW purposes are either workers who have contracts of apprenticeship or workers taking part in training schemes who are treated as if they have a contract of apprenticeship.

Couple of questions:
1. Do you work only on the shop floor, or do you go out on site?
2. Do you use your own car for work transport (i.e. driving to and from the shop and/or work sites)?
3. What "stage" are you currently on?

[Tidy Max]

i work on site and shop floor

im a level 3 on a 1st years wage, the reason for this is because this is MY first year in an apprenticeship (did my level 2 as a full time course)

I use my own car to travel to and from work and to and from site/wholesalers/clients when i have to BUT i get paid 25p per mile, but i DONT get paid for commuting to and from work, only for any additional traveling

thanks mate, it is much appreciated

[Jack]

Ok, so you should be on Stage 3 wage but because you're doing the apprenticeship, you're on Stage 1 wage?

When you begin year two, there's not much you can do to up your wage as their £4.85 rate (2009 rates, Stage 1, Using Own Transport) is just over NMW by 2p! That wage stage will rise to £5.09 next year, until you turn 22 when the minimum wage that applies to you will be £5.80 - so Stage 1 will be under that.

[Mike]

Is it company policy that after XXX years of employment with you go up a pay bracket?? If its not then if im honest you dont have a leg to stand on.

[Tidy Max]

thanks very much, my gripe was that even though i should be moving on to the stage 2 wage on august the 2nd, they were just going to keep me on the stage 1 wage,

thanks very much, i should go up to 6.10 next week if i get to stage 2, but if not they are breaking the law as by law i should be on 4.77, ahh well i can try my best,

thanks for the help, i hath repped you

[Tidy Max]

its JIB policy, and yes, its on the contract i signed

[Mike]

its JIB policy, and yes, its on the contract i signed

Ah i see, you have that as legal leverage should you need it then.

Unless your superior is a tool, you should win in this case.

[Tidy Max]

hes the biggest feking ratchet you can imagine, WITH a scaff bar stuck on it too

[Mike]

hes the biggest feking ratchet you can imagine, WITH a scaff bar stuck on it too

LOL sounds like a reet toss peice TBH.

[Jack]

thanks very much, i should go up to 6.10 next week if i get to stage 2, but if not they are breaking the law as by law i should be on 4.77
Stage 1 payments for 2009 cover the NMW though so they may still try to put you on that.

Just seen this on directgov:

Deductions and payments which reduce NMW pay
Some deductions from pay, or payments you make to your employer, are taken into account in working out NMW pay. So if you are paid (for instance) £7 an hour and deductions or payments for any of the reasons listed below reduce this to £5, the question is whether £5 an hour, not £7, meets the NMW in your case.

Deductions and payments which reduce NMW pay are:

- Refund of money spent by you in connection with your work such as the cost of purchasing tools or uniform
- Refund of expenses incurred while in the course of doing your job such as travel
- Deductions to cover the cost of items your employer has supplied to you that are necessary for your job such as tools or uniform
- Deductions for your employer’s own use and benefit such as meals in the staff canteen or transport to and from work that they provide
So if they give you a company wagon, the lower rate of pay is under NMW... tut tut.

[Tidy Max]

yeah, thanks for doing the research, your like judge dread,

"I AM THE LAW!!!"

lol well just went up and mentioned it, he said "err we will see"

i said, "what is there to see, its in the contract we both signed"

"yep okay its going up"

the look on his face was priceless :) max 1 - boss 0 yo!

[Tidy Max]

pay day.... no wage increase, ****s about to hit the fan in 10 minutes, just waiting for there business associate to leave, im professional enough not to go and say it in front of a stranger!

[bmw156]

pay day.... no wage increase, ****s about to hit the fan in 10 minutes, just waiting for there business associate to leave, im professional enough not to go and say it in front of a stranger!

good luck dude

[Tidy Max]

well im still waiting for him to leave... shall i put overtime on my next time sheet lol

[Lee]

Rule one of apprenticeships is get the hell out as soon as you are qualified, or in their eyes, you will always be the apprentice.

Myself and all my mates did it. The guy with the best result was Ed who was an apprentice beater at reg vardy ford. He was getting used and abused due to being the apprentice for a year after he qualified, so he jumped ship to another crash repair centre and his money more than doubled overnight!

Stick with it, use them to get your qualies, and then unless they stick you on a par with the other staff, get the hell out of dodge!

[bmw156]

Rule one of apprenticeships is get the hell out as soon as you are qualified, or in their eyes, you will always be the apprentice.

Myself and all my mates did it. The guy with the best result was Ed who was an apprentice beater at reg vardy ford. He was getting used and abused due to being the apprentice for a year after he qualified, so he jumped ship to another crash repair centre and his money more than doubled overnight!

Stick with it, use them to get your qualies, and then unless they stick you on a par with the other staff, get the hell out of dodge!

yeh, well said that man

[Sloth]

lee speaks sense, i was treat like crap for 2 years after i qualified, in a main dealer i may add. i told em to ram it, started work in a scrapyard and doubled my cash. mechanics is **** tbh, a dying trade in my towm, esp in main dealers.

[dougie_boi]

yeah its definatly a dying trade now compared to ten years ago

[Tidy Max]

its all gravy baby, apparently his PAYE software had expired, hes renewing it this week and i will get back payed what i am owed,

all it would of took is one phone call to let me know that in the first place like, and i did bring it up a fortnight ago incase anything needed sorting so they wouldnt have any excuses, but ahh well

and i can definately see what your all saying, it kind of happened at my last job too! although im making an extra effort not to be a push over/soft at this place, seems to be working i suppose, cheers for the advice and stuff lads!

[Jack]

You're only the new boy til someone else arrives. Then they become the tea-making hack lol