View Full Version : What do you think the outcome will be (work related)
L33 LEG
27-06-09, 11:15 AM
il try and keep this short. nearly two weeks ago i went to work and was called into the office and without warning they gave me an interview about an incident a few weeks earlier. i 'apparantly' told a member of staff to piss off whilst paying for fuel (work in a petrol station) on my day off.
seen as everyone swears all the time and we have a right laugh sometimes and people argue and bitch constantly i though it would just be a slap on the wrist. this woman had made an official complaint and she has one witness backing up her story. i denied it and even though they hadnt even interviewed all of the people there (ie, my witnesses) they suspended me. i have been suspended ever since without a call, letter or anything.
apparantly they are interviewing the rest of the witnesses tonight as theyve been on holiday for a few week. these are luckily my mates so will back me up. the manager has been telling everybody how serious it is, even though it isnt really as we all piss about like that.
question is, am i going to get sacked Lol? hopefully il have 2 witnesses against her 1 and there is no proof whatsoever. i was on my day off out of uniform and surely theyve done the procedures wrong, im pretty sure they should of interviewed everybody before me and i was wrongly suspended because of that.
so if i get sacked and choose to appeal where would i stand? my mate a few months ago got sacked for theft but then got his job back after an appeal as they did the interviews and everything all wrong. i have a feeling they're going to make an example of me though and try their hardest to get rid of me :roll:
any opinions or situations similar?
hmmm is strange, as it was your day off, you could of been a total stranger, having a bad day.
and even if you werent joking just say you were mesing about, if you meant it you could of said alot worse then piss off.. lol
i reckon you will keep your job, unless they want to make an example of you.
L33 LEG
27-06-09, 11:26 AM
they said it doesnt matter if it was my day off or not, even though i didnt believe it. iv already denied it all. i think once they've interviewed the rest of the witnesses they have to get another manager in and then give me another interview and decide the outcome.
nobody deserves to be sacked for swearing, especially when everyone does it. iv done much worse than that and id be mega pee'd off if i go because of it.
i honestly cant see how they can sack me though without proof? if i go then surely i could just randomly pick somebody and say that they swore at me and then they'd get sacked aswell. really did shock us all when they suspended me
they should have interview'd the others 1st, but suspending you after your interview is correct but not over for saying piss off. thats just petty and as said if you was a random stranger nothing would have been done so why are they trying to make a example out of you
L33 LEG
27-06-09, 11:36 AM
il just have to wait and see. at least im getting paid for my holiday lol
Pistol Pete
27-06-09, 12:07 PM
IMO it was your day off so **** them!!! If you were in uniform and working then i could see their point. I'd get some concrete advice though form the CAB or such like.
L33 LEG
27-06-09, 12:09 PM
il know next week if iv got my job or not. if they sack me then il just go to the appeal with as much info as possible. thats what my mate did and they had to give him his job back, and they had solid proof of what he did. where as with me, they have nothing.
Pistol Pete
27-06-09, 12:19 PM
Sod that! I'd be challenging them before they had the option TBH. In the current climate fight for your job. It could take smonths to find another.
L33 LEG
27-06-09, 12:23 PM
il obviously put my facts and that across next week but if the manager is anything like my manager he wont know anything and just do whatever he wants to.
saying that though, im pretty sure without proof they cant do anything. so its irrelevant what else they've messed up on.
Get your work contract out and take that with your story to the Citizens advice bureau. I'm sure that they cannot discipline you for something that you did whilst you were not on company time (i.e. being paid for)
Next time the woman in question ****s up, take her to the cleaners through the bosses.
L33 LEG
27-06-09, 12:43 PM
il try and get hold of a contract tonight then and see whats what.
cheers for the advice guys, im confident that if i do get sacked i can appeal against it, but hopefully it wont come to that.
kelbelle
27-06-09, 02:16 PM
My sister's boyfriend was accused of having sex with my sister in the office (they didnt!) and he was fired with 2 months pay. He lives in a £1000 a month flat without a job now lol
Fight them all the way, tooth and nail! I told my sister's boyfriend to take his company to court because they had no evidence except the boss's daughter seeing them leaving the office at night time (he was picking up something he had left at work that day) but he didnt so now he is buggered!
L33 LEG
27-06-09, 02:21 PM
il be fighting it, dont worry. i cant afford and dont want to loose this job, its way too easy lol
Contact CAB, if it was out of your contracted work hours, your employer does not have a leg to stand on so if you lose your job you have a civil court case of unfair dismissal.
Next time remember your manners! :roll: lol
L33 LEG
27-06-09, 02:56 PM
thats good to know. i told them that in my interview but he claimed he rang up and asked about it, which he clearly didnt.
i suppose if i do get sacked and then go to an appeal, which i should easily win. il get full pay for the whole time im off so it could work out good lol but obviously il try my best next week not to let it come to that
L33 LEG
27-06-09, 02:56 PM
Next time remember your manners! :roll: lol
piss off lol
Novasport
27-06-09, 11:13 PM
http://www.acas.org.uk
Thats the people to speak to, my wife is a HR manager which is a big help if I need any info :D
In that case, can you clear up the 15min break for every 4 hours worked rule for me Novasport? lol Place I work fudge it a bit and give you a 4 hour shift basically saying your break is on the end, and no one seems to know whats what
Have you ever put the hose pipe between your legs squeezed the lever spanked your **** and shouted whooooooooooooooooooooooo?
Have you ever put the hose pipe between your legs squeezed the lever spanked your **** and shouted whooooooooooooooooooooooo?
fcuking LOL! lol
in normal dismissal procedings, it is customary to issue 2 verbal warnings followed by a written warning if the behavior continues. this is followed by a meeting of the employer & the employee to state the employers position. then if it continues then someone can be dismissed.
unless it is for gross misconduct... now this is a very grey area & can cover pretty much anything, but is also really hard to prove if put to an appeal.
you need to have a written statement of your employment history including any previous warnings, awards etc. to show people.
novaguy08
28-06-09, 10:51 AM
Unless your theiving out the tills/safe/shops they need to give you a warning, they MUST give you 1 verbal warning, 1 Written warning & then a final warning before they can sack you its your rights no if buts or maybes. Also you need to call your boss & tell him your contacting a solicitor as you need to have something official saying that you have been suspended rather then just "get out of my office your suspended!" dont matter if you not actaully called a solicitor he will pap himself and either get a letter out to you saying how long your suspended for or get you back in. If he still doesnt do anything about it then you need to call a solicitor about it.
L33 LEG
28-06-09, 12:18 PM
cheers for the advice again. the situation is now changing again, the current manager is now moving stores 2moro.he interviewed one of my mates yesterday but is now nothing to do with it. the trading manager who interviewed me is now in charge. they are still needing to interview my other mate but apparantly the boss is now on holiday for a week or two, and then when he gets back my mate is off for 2 weeks. so theres a chance itl go on for another month like this.
i have still not had any contact whatsoever, and if i played it by the books and didnt contact anyone (banned from the store and cant talk to anyone), i wouldnt even know about whats going on. id be sat at home just waiting for a letter.
and also, in my mates interview he kept stating that i didnt swear but 5 minutes later i told her to shut up which i admitted and my mate agreed to. apparantly saying shut up is a very serious offence lol.
the incident is as simple as this :
me and my mate went into work to buy some petrol. i went to the till and was talking to the guy on the till. we were argueing about a situation the week before. i called a woman over and said 'did i do anything wrong on friday', she said that we are both as bad as eachother. then 'apparantly' i said 'piss off you fcuking blank' (whatever that means) and i turned away. i then went into the office to talk to someone else. that woman came in and said 'i dont appreciate you swearing at me', i looked puzzled and just said 'shut up' and she walked otu and that was it.
seriously, what is wrong or threatening about that? no proof at all but theyre acting like its the most serious thing ever Lol.
let_nova
28-06-09, 12:34 PM
just be grown up about it and stop trying to find a way out of it. you told her to shut up when you were in the office.(in front of someone else). so either way whether you swore of not you were still abusive to a member off staff.
George g
28-06-09, 12:59 PM
I'm sure that they cannot discipline you for something that you did whilst you were not on company time (i.e. being paid for)
im pretty sure of that too. they cannot do anything if you are in your own time. but be careful about it as you were on your works site! so get some good advice! :thumb:
L33 LEG
28-06-09, 01:12 PM
just be grown up about it and stop trying to find a way out of it. you told her to shut up when you were in the office.(in front of someone else). so either way whether you swore of not you were still abusive to a member off staff.
i'd hardly class saying shut up abusive or threatening though :wtf: and i think i have every right to try and get out of it because theres no way im getting sacked for something as petty as that
will there be cctv footage of the alleged incident, as you were near the counter????
L33 LEG
28-06-09, 01:20 PM
the footage will show me standing there, cant hear what is said and they're the crappest cameras ever with 10 second frames. and considering it was a month ago now it'l probably be off the system.
so in that case i could ask them to prove it, which they definetly cannot do, especially without video evidence.
even a 10 second frame rate will show body language.
the problem with her allegation is simple... context... I tell people to *&^% off all of the time at work, when we are bantering & having a laugh... but if our conversations were written down, it could be construed in loads of different ways, from joke thru to bullying...
L33 LEG
28-06-09, 01:27 PM
thats my point. everyone swears. me and the manager used to argue constantly and always say fcuk off. a few guys have even threatened him and basically offered him a fight outside Lol. but nothing has even been done. until now that is, over the simplest of things. and you're right about its different when its written down, hopefully when i have my interview again il word it much better and also explaint hat when i said shut up it wasnt aggresive at all.
im more bothered about it taking so long to sort out and theres a chance its going to be even longer now. and the fact that they havnt got in contact with me at all is a bit out of order.
does your employer have a Human Resources dept.??
if so, you could ring them to ask them politely what is the progress on their 'investigation' as you are quite distressed about the situation & would like to know when they will be letting you get back to work. or maybe come & see them to discuss the matter.
these HR people are usually spineless & hate having face to face meetings. remember to be unfailingly polite & at no time should you get rattled by them, and keep asking them to just hold on as you are writing it all down, and even get spellings if needed. playing them at their own game is the best way.
L33 LEG
28-06-09, 06:35 PM
ye HR were the people who suspended me. il either do that or i might go down to the store where my manager has moved to and have a word with him and tell him to hurry things up, he'l still have a say in what happens.
iv found out today that the new manager is now on holiday until the 10th of july, but my mate goes on hol for 2 weeks from the 8th of july. so im looking at august now until they get in touch with me. as much as i like having holidays with full pay, i cant be doing with another month not knowing if my job is safe or not.
PMSL at the comments on here lol
Firstly, whatever you think of HR/Personnel or whatever esle you want to call them they are there to protect the company plain and simple. Ensuring employees have what they need is simply part of that. Don't ever think they are there for your benefit. Appearing to sit on the fence is all part of the job/game.
Secondly, you can be disciplined following an offence if it is a breach of your contracted terms (you need to check yours). Many contracts will state that you must behave in a manner befitting of the organisation regardless of whether you are on duty or not. If the offence is deemed serious enough you may be dismissed immediately there are no requirements for a number of verbal and written warnings to be given before a suspension/sacking.
As stated earlier ACAS are the way forward for help with this, pissing HR off by messing about with silly phone calls/checking spelling etc is probably not a good plan.
My wife works in HR, per Mr Sport it's nice to have help if needed :D
PMSL at the comments on here lol
Firstly, whatever you think of HR/Personnel or whatever esle you want to call them they are there to protect the company plain and simple. Ensuring employees have what they need is simply part of that. Don't ever think they are there for your benefit. Appearing to sit on the fence is all part of the job/game.
Secondly, you can be disciplined following an offence if it is a breach of your contracted terms (you need to check yours). Many contracts will state that you must behave in a manner befitting of the organisation regardless of whether you are on duty or not. If the offence is deemed serious enough you may be dismissed immediately there are no requirements for a number of verbal and written warnings to be given before a suspension/sacking.
As stated earlier ACAS are the way forward for help with this, pissing HR off by messing about with silly phone calls/checking spelling etc is probably not a good plan.
My wife works in HR, per Mr Sport it's nice to have help if needed :D
I have had plenty of run ins with HR 4rseholes in my time.... & they are one of the reasons this country is in such a state......... all this backhanded disciplinary cobblers & investigations by people with absolutely no qualifications or powers to do such a thing when a simple quick 2 minute, take the person to one side & give them a quick straightening rollocking & advising them to grow up or grow thicker skin is enough..... but sadly now it is illegal.
ALSO
my father in law got sacked for gross misconduct from a job because a whole family worked under him & one of them started making all sorts of allegations, none of which would stand up. he got a final warning, then the girl made yet more allegations, so he got fired. when his job was advertised, one of their relatives' application actually arrived before the ad was in the paper......... they'd done it to try & get him the job.....
I'd be surprised if they sacked you - its effectively hearsay and "witnesses" cant be relied upon as its a simple case of your word against hers.
Its also your day off and although you work there I'd be surprised if they could do you for that - check your code of conduct policy though just incase. Some people for example have responsibilities even if off duty as theyre the face of the company - however if there were no other "customers" about its a tad dodgy.
Are you in the union? If not you'll find it hard - if there isnt a union speak to citizens advice/lawyer and mention constructive dismissal. Tell HR you'll be appealing the decision on the grounds of unfair/constructive dismissal.
Check their gross misconduct policy too.
hey if ya get fired, just do the place over. call it severance pay....
Contact CAB, if it was out of your contracted work hours, your employer does not have a leg to stand on so if you lose your job you have a civil court case of unfair dismissal.
Unfortunately, thats not the case. You can be disciplined for out-of-work activities under the guise of bringing the company into disrepute. For example, if I got busted over the weekend on a drugs charge, I'd probably lose my job over it even if I was doing it on my own time.
Go see the union rep, join if you have to. You're aware that at any disciplinary meetings you're entitled to have another person present (can be anyone, but if you can get a union rep in there that will pull more weight) to ensure you aren't being unfairly treated.
As said, check your contract details. You should also have information about disciplinary processes and warnings etc. It might be worth going to see the CAB or having a session with a solicitor (most offer a free half hour or so) but they will probably only be able to advise you on the general rules and regs and not the specifics of your company.
I have had plenty of run ins with HR 4rseholes in my time.... & they are one of the reasons this country is in such a state......... all this backhanded disciplinary cobblers & investigations by people with absolutely no qualifications or powers to do such a thing when a simple quick 2 minute, take the person to one side & give them a quick straightening rollocking & advising them to grow up or grow thicker skin is enough..... but sadly now it is illegal.
They aren't all unqualified though that's for sure. The job should really require a formal qualification but it doesn't matter to a lot of businesses, as I said HR are there to protect the organisation.
You'll find that a lot of the things you reckon is ridiculous is actually due to employment law. You have to be so careful as any minor transgression can see the employee take you to the cleaners.
That said I don't disagree entirely with what you say, I'm just privy to the 'other side' if you like.
They aren't all unqualified though that's for sure. The job should really require a formal qualification but it doesn't matter to a lot of businesses, as I said HR are there to protect the organisation.
You'll find that a lot of the things you reckon is ridiculous is actually due to employment law. You have to be so careful as any minor transgression can see the employee take you to the cleaners.
That said I don't disagree entirely with what you say, I'm just privy to the 'other side' if you like.
as far as I know, being a qualified HR professional does not suddenly make you a detective with sweeping legal powers, and don't even get me started on stupid employment law, it is usually almost impossible to sack anyone because the current government has made it so the unemployment figures could stay low by making the act of sacking such a palava that a lot of people don't bother... I am involved in running a company & we have strict procedures to follow when conducting any form of disciplinary action. but we have never suspended anyone for doing anything out of hours on purely hearsay evidence cos our legal advisors have given us a long checklist of stuff to follow.
Tidy Max
30-06-09, 08:42 PM
bit grim this tbh! Which garage you work at fella?
If i was in your position i would definately contact CAB or acas/ a union, i would also contact the hr department AND the manager or whatever is now in charge of the 'case' and ask to be kept informed as to what your position is the emotional/mental affect of you telling the woman to piss off can be no worse than 1month or 2 worrying about job security and i would make this known, i would also start keeping a written account of any information you get, also an email to the company explaining what actions you are taking, contacting solicitor, but most of all i would NEVER apologise, as this is accepting you are in the wrong
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