2.0 litre valves in a 1200 spi????

[rallydak]

hi, i recently heard rumours form people that running a 1200 head with 2.0litre valves makes them go like f**k. but i was woundering has anyone on here any knowledge of this or done anything like this. ino it would cost alot to do and you are better just going for a bigger engine but it is for competition purposes as i used to take part in a standard 1200 rally class and there were about three or 4 competitors that were able to gain around 10 secs a stage all of a sudden out of nowhere and this is what the rumours are that they have done. so i just wanted to no what the hell the cheaters had done.lol

[GRUNT 16V]

The Best Thing To Do Is Get The C14se Head And Match The Inlet Ports To The Manifold Using A Die Grinder

[matt_vaughan]

put 1.3 rods and crank in most likely if they were running early carb engines.

[novaguy08]

matt, he on about C12NZ (1.2 spi) engine, im not sure about the valves. but put a 1.6 cam in. that deffo does the trick, there is a article on here about tuning the SPI engines.

[rallydak]

yea im on about the 1.2 spi engine. can't understand what it is they are doing because the engines still look standard from the outside. and it was always the carb engine was always the quickest engine in the class because the cars are supposed to be standard

[novaguy08]

the carb engines have more power then injection engines.

Not only that but if they want to cheat then they drop a 1.3 bottom and and rods in & it makes a 1.4 with "uber compression & makes it dead revvy" apparently

[rallydak]

yea i have heard of this mod aswell. hard to know what the wee f**kers are at lol

[novaguy08]

well get yourself a good nick 1.2 carb engine & if you get beaten in that get the stuards involved get them to check the CC of the engine lol

Cos it aint a 1.2 anymore if they do thats

[Mike]

hi, i recently heard rumours form people that running a 1200 head with 2.0litre valves makes them go like f**k. but i was woundering has anyone on here any knowledge of this or done anything like this. ino it would cost alot to do and you are better just going for a bigger engine but it is for competition purposes as i used to take part in a standard 1200 rally class and there were about three or 4 competitors that were able to gain around 10 secs a stage all of a sudden out of nowhere and this is what the rumours are that they have done. so i just wanted to no what the hell the cheaters had done.lol

Its safe to say, youve been blagged there chap :thumb:

[matt_vaughan]

Yep, cheating and I can safely say its probably the High Comp 1.4 job.

[rallydak]

already tried d stewards but they wont do anything about it. like they no they are cheating its obvious when a standard 1200 is finishing in the top 3 in the moded 1400 class and in the top 5 in the moded 1600 class lol but the steward c**ts are too much about money and dont want to say anything incase they lose entry fees.

i could cheat the same as them, but i think im just going to save my money and build a nice 1400 car.

just out of curiosity how much would it set you back to do the high comp 1.4 job????

[novaguy08]

not much, you just need a 1.3 (13ST) bottom end rods pop the 1.2 (12ST)pistons on the 1.3 rods and pop it all back in 1.4 high comp engine :D

Well thats what i been told anyways, you can use the 1.3 pistons but you need to the block bored. good way to do a rebuild :D

[rallydak]

but wait.......... it can't be this because like i said earlier they are using spi engines

[novaguy08]

their using SPI engines?!
Thought you said that there were some carb ones there going better!

your VERY limited on what you can do with an SPI engine but with so many versions of the SPI all looking pretty much the same its easy to drop a 1.4 in and not notice the difference other then power..........

[genuinejoe]

Have you ever thought that maybe the big nut behind wheel that is making the difference!!!lol


yea im on about the 1.2 spi engine. can't understand what it is they are doing because the engines still look standard from the outside. and it was always the carb engine was always the quickest engine in the class because the cars are supposed to be standard

[con07]

This comes up every time some kid wonders why hes not Loeb, or why the 2 girls who regularly finish in the top 4 beat them evey week lol! The top 3 cars were checked at the start of winter, DEFINATELY not 1.4s or whatever!
If you want more power kick the drivers side headlight out but if you want to be competitive I would suggest learning how to drive ;)

[con07]

already tried d stewards but they wont do anything about it. like they no they are cheating its obvious when a standard 1200 is finishing in the top 3 in the moded 1400 class and in the top 5 in the moded 1600 class lol but the steward c**ts are too much about money and dont want to say anything incase they lose entry fees.

i could cheat the same as them, but i think im just going to save my money and build a nice 1400 car.

just out of curiosity how much would it set you back to do the high comp 1.4 job????
We also approached the stewards and asked for OUR car to be checked due to chinese wispers of 1.6s and high lift cams!

[Stuart]

Last time I had a 1.2 valve and XE valve next to each other, they were the SAME size!

[matt_vaughan]

Last time I had a 1.2 valve and XE valve next to each other, they were the SAME size!
Therefore....putting XE valves in would soooo give you atleast 10 bhp increase, cause its "redtop" init! lol

[rallydak]

yea cars were checked at START of winter lol must mean there the same all season. and i seen how they check the cars. looking at engine numbers and gearbox numbers not gonna tell you much.

dont make any diff to me i dont do that class so dont suggest learning how to drive cuz i can :-) but i no people in the class and everyone there nos whos cheating. so im not saying people are cheating because they are beating me am saying it because its so obvious. its stupid one minute there going nowere then all of a sudden there wiping the floor. its that obvious people who aren't even competing in the class can see who are cheating. a standard 45 brake nova can only go so fast.


and how can you explain someone running a carb engine then changing to an spi engine which has 10brake less and gaining maybe 10 or 15 secs a stage lol

only fooling urself mate. catch yourself on please

[con07]

Spi is well better than carb when tuned properly ;)
Dont listen to everything you hear or read on forums! All the best with your new build!
Regards, Conor

[novaguy08]

Carbs are more tunable, you need to sink hellovalota cash into an SPI engine to get its power up!

PROs:

The heads are better on carbs, you dont need to run a cat, you can tune the carb more, cam is changeable for a less restrictive one, no electrics to worry about (persay), pop a 1.3 bottom end in and you have a 1.4 in a 1.2 block & higher compression.

Although on an SPI you can tinker about with things like fuel pressure, injector size, easily change the CAM for a 1.6 one, upgrade the inlet to a 1.6 one with a 1.8 tb, but thats about all i can think of tbh.

lCONS

Carb engines dont work in neg g's (so will bog out on jumps and things) the cam wears out on them causing fuel pump to fail (unless changed & the new oil gallery drilled!) dozens of vacuum diaphrams that can fail Air leaks can cause problems. (thats about all i know!)

SPI engines can have dodgy electrics, especially after an engine change, Dozens of sensors that can fail, VERY limited tuning without changing appearance of engine, If you change injectors then you might have problem of overfueling, incredibly restriced head.

[rallydak]

but its a standard 1200 class so you shouldn't be tuning it ;-)

basically you proved my point your spi engine isn't putting out 45bhp.

but at the end of the day mate it don't bother me because im not in the class i just no people who are in it, i was just woundering what could be done to make the spi engine go quick and i take it your not going to spill.

[con07]

I'll refrase, spi is better with the right mix of STANDARD parts, not tuning as per say! Alot of older people are against electronics like novaguy08, if you take time to learn and understand you'll find them waaay better than carbs, and at least you know its gona start lol carb = fail imo

[garyc]

you need to read the rules and see what they say! then stand on your head and re-read just in case anything changes! There is never anything std about standard class racing all fast engines will be rebuilt to the limit of the rules and that is where the speed comes from.

You will normally find that you can put up a fee eg £50 to have car checked and stripped however I have never seen it happen. If your right and the car is ilegal yo uget your cash back if its OK your £50 lighter.

[rallydak]

yea ino electronics have taken a big place in getting more power out of engines, they can make a big diff if used correctly.

why what sorts of things have you got done to your spi??? like im not going to be doing it any way as im going 1400 just interested in what it is. and if its legal which it could well be if its electronic then there shouldn't be any problem in telling us as everyone on here shares what we do to the cars because theres normally always someone who can add to the mods and make it even better again.

[rallydak]

bumppp

[genuinejoe]

Take a look at results again mr rallydak certain carb engines are still doing the same times as spi engines so how does your theory work with that fact???????
These 1.2 carb or spi are very slow to pick up, if you are able to carry speed through corners and not crap your pants with the brake on every corner then you can make them put in lap times! No special tunning used just guts and bravery!!

P.S. if you want you could take a spin in one of these cars you are suspect of and see if you can put in the same times!

thanks

[rallynova1200]

im not cheating and i really enjoy the rallying because i am getting quicker every time i go out and i am becoming a better driver everytime and the craic is mighty sure thats all that matters isnt it?

[rallynova1200]

its all about makin a wee nova go as hard as it will

[genuinejoe]

its all about makin a wee nova go as hard as it will

Well said, you have hit the nail on the head! I totally agree, just dont like seeing drivers called cheats just cause they can go fast! Its all about getting experience beind the wheel, is it not?

[rallynova1200]

yep it is. Im a better driver than my da now :) lol its a great championship so lets not ruin it with all this chat about such and such is doing this and that

[rallydak]

ere lad the con boy said himself the spi are a far better engine with "tuning" so please dont talk c**p he already let it slip so dont go on talk bout that these ones that are doing so well with the spi engines are way better than the drivers with standard carb engine.

and yea there is one or 2 carb engines just about sticking with the pace of the spi but you can see that he is driving the absoulte nuts out of the car and has it on the pure max because he has driven them cars so long and nos there max. and even he is complaining about the juniors cheating with the spi's. like its so obvious some of the junior drivers that are at the top of the class look like there out for a sunday drive where as the seniors that are running carbs on similar times are pushing like f**k its clear to see.

basic facts its a standard class so the engine is supposed to be standard so how did people change to an engine with 10 brake less and ended up goin maybe 10 or 15 secs quicker. honestly stop fooling urself because its all your doing those spi engines are putting out a lot more than 45bhp so therefore there not standard and the people are cheating.

[genuinejoe]

Thanks for your opinion lad, but im nothing to do with con and dont care, there is no secret, if there was a special tunning secret do you not think you english friends would know about it???? If you take a look back through your posts you will see that you asked the question a number of times and the only answer you got was 1.2i spi's were a pile of poo! Anyway as offered come take a lap in the car if you want, oh wait, who is rallydak mmmm!

Thanks

A LAD

P.s thats all i have to say if you want to talk anymore just pop over on sat for a chat!

[Stuart]

now now girls, we all know lots of people cheat in "bog" class motorsport...(feck infact the top boys do too lol). lets not get all petty about it

[rallydak]

well said stuart.

and if your soo good why do you not run a carb engine since they got more power youl go even quicker again sure???? and con said himself there is a secret to tuning them and thats why the people at the top of the class are using them.

i no of the people at the top of the class putting these spi's on rolling roads etc. and tuning them so why do they need to go to all that bother when there standard 45brake eh???

bottom line your only fooling yourself trust me, everyone is on to it and everyone is getting fed up with the class they should make it all standard carb engines and the cars should be stripped regulary if its to be fair simple as that.

[genuinejoe]

Thanks again rallydak for you wonderfull comments, have you only got one line, " fooling yourself " HA HA HA.

The reason that an carb engine is not used is that was the engine that came in the car and to me spi's seem more reliable and responsive down low. SPI has the same torque as a carb, so more horses doesn't matter as its all about torque!! Dont need to go any faster that would be embarassing.


Tell me how even tunning a 1.2 spi on a rolling road is going to help? spi is an spi no matter what tunning you could do, which there isn't any just a bit of advance

What have you got against spi's lad, a girl in a carb engine is still winning events and putting in times. just live with it!

Thanks for all your intelligent input over this topic lad, its been very enjoyable and funny to say the least! I leave you to build you 1.4 high comp engine and if i was you id spend more time on it than on your computer crying to all your buddys over the water about getting more power!

keep err lit!!!

[Stuart]

erm.... did you skip over my post?

[novaguy08]

think he did stuart!

Like i was going to say earlier, calm down, the lot of you, throwing about accusations of cheating are for the marshals at the rally track, joe, there are a few things on here about tuning an SPI engine that will make it faster........ most of which you can do without changing the appearance of the engine.... eg timing advancing, injector sizes, 1.6 cam, inlet & tb mods if they been done it could gain some time! either way if its being done its cheating, if not then fair enough its just some god like driving! yes an SPI engine has the same torque as a carb engine and it is lower down but it has NO top end whatsoever! either way there are advantages & disadvantages of both engines, of which i explained earlier........ if you wanna cheat you have the way to it, if not then pratice makes perfect so get on the tracks and get god like!! either way pack in the ****ing arguments!!!! this aint the place for it!

[rallydak]

exactly novaguy there is loads that can be done to spi's and according to other people "conor" a few secrets out there aswell. and as novaguy said spi's have no top end yet one of me mates who has a decent carb engine spun and got caught by one of the people using a spi engine and on the straight it past him like he was standing still.

and yea they have the same torque but the carb has more power due to the head and yes torque is very important but you still need power to use the torque. and its was because of this that the people that were on the top of the class for years always used a spi block and carb head as it give you the best of both worlds instead of one or the other.

and who said i was going to build a 1400 high comp????

and if you had read any of my posts you would have realised i dont do the class. i have mates doing it and be down watching the odd time so no point suggesting how to drive an all because i can. the only reason i started this because i was interesting in finding out what had be done to the cars because im more interested in mechanical bits of cars than the driving and whatever you say there not 45brake engines. but im not saying the people winning the class are bad drives because they still have to be a good driver to win the class even if there car does have a bit more power. they are good drivers and i think theres a few other people in the class that are a similar standard if they were in similar cars. thats why all im saying i think the way the class should be run is one engine and stripped regulary. this way i think the people winning the class would still be at the top but it would bring a few more people in to it and make it a really good class do you not think???

but as novaguy said no point argueing about it as it dont make any diff to me anyway because i aint competing against you anyway. so best of luck in the future mate.

[con07]

Rallydac there are no secrets wtf? Your taking what I say out of context and I've already corrected you. Make yourself known if not here pm me and the next we're both up your more than welcome to look around the car or cars I run/work at on the day to see for yourself whats 'tuned' as you call it.
You or your 'friends' also more than welcome to go dual entry in one which finishes in the top 3 regularly and sure we'll post the times here to see if yours improve but tbh I doubt you'll get near the top 5 btw you've been talking.
Some of the drivers in that class are excellent, stars of the future, in particular the ones in the top five or six every week and its really not fair to say anyones cheating. As said the cars dont have any real power/torque so they require a certain driving style, you have to keep momentum going because once your out of the right rev range its seconds before back in it again.
I'm deadly serious about the offer above and it would settle this 'cheating' lark and your doubts so give me a shout, Conor.

[J-R]

Every car should have the engines sealed at the start of the season or championship and at the end of the championship the top 5 should have their engines and boxes stripped and who ever was caught cheating, if any, should have all the trophys they won that year took of them and every result of that year reseeded. If the engine was to blow up or have problems wereas it needs stripped it should be taken to the scrutineers to break the seal and stripped to make sure everything was legal, and on the next competitive day it should be sealed at scrutiny.

This is the way it should be run so it's fair for everyone.


I also think computers or ECU's (that are known not to be re-mapped or chipped) should be taken in mid season at the stewards disscresion to check that the SPI's aren't tuned that way.

Just my opinion.:)