View Full Version : vtec in a nova???
rallydak
09-06-09, 10:58 PM
hi im cureently building a nova shell for rallying. i want to go into the 1400 class and to be competitive using a vauxhall engine i would have to spend a lot of money. i was woundering would i be better going for a 1400 vtec engine and changing the brain etc. i was woundering does anyone no what you have to do to put one into a nova. i have no experience with vtecs so i know nothing on what they are like and was woundering if any one on here has done one of these conversions before???
any help you can give me on this would be appreciated lads
sulphur
09-06-09, 11:02 PM
From what I remember, it won't work. Box hitting the wheel when turning or something.
craig green
09-06-09, 11:03 PM
A V-TEC is your best option but prolly not a viable one.
I've heard the engine & gearbox combined width is too long to get under a Novas wheel arches. Some engines have the gearbox on the opposite side too, but that may not be all of them. Lots of fabrication I expect. MINI forums might be better source of general info...
They get them into minis so sure its possible. Its not a common conversion so your own you own really.
boffer8
09-06-09, 11:21 PM
you wont be able to run it after 2010 anyways from what i have heard as the msa have brought in a regulation which classify them as specials and will not be allowed in rallying, maybe wrong though, just what i have heard on the grapevine
there was a honda powered nova built on here. search the projects section
why not use a swift gti engine? i know its a 1.3 but surly thats ok:confused:
why not use an x14xe. piece of piss conversion then
yea thats true. dont have to spend much on these engines to get good power
What i was about to say chaps lol
I guess you could get about 130bhp if you tried. Maybe more.
xxspudxx
10-06-09, 09:12 AM
What i was about to say chaps lol
I guess you could get about 130bhp if you tried. Maybe more.
And the rest, there are 1.4's about with 180+ bhp, but just need like 8 grand lol
Yer, 130 with a AW budget lol
Yer, 130 with a AW budget lol
Because the rest goes on ecu's and bits like ive had to lol
there was a honda powered nova built on here. search the projects section
Was that a vtak y0 engine though?
I remember someone sizing one up and placing it in the bay. All fitted fine until they came to put the wheels on and found the gearbox kinda sat pretty much in the wheelarch (so much like a 306 GTi-6 then)
aye the turning circle in a Gti6 is shocking....
Im sure a vtec has been tried and failed
no i dont think it was a vtack i think it was a jc130 but basically the same
George g
10-06-09, 02:55 PM
unfortunately in rallying you WILL need to spend alot on the engines in a free class. have you thought of the 205 challenge? f1000? or other single make championships? they have specs in place so that even on a £3000 budget you can be competitive.
in relation the BRC Stars tend to require close to £10k a year budget, without the car & severe repairs. so the single make's tend to work out better for the clubman!
HTH
EDIT:
Check this link out
http://www.205cup.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3822
In 205/RWD land its a lot cheaper than that.
I bet some crews can spend £10k but they dont do any better for that.
Basically if you have a 1400 or TD you only score 4 from 5 rounds, so as Andy Chalmers or Paul Dark will tell you, you will only spend £3000 max and thats between 2 of you, if you are smooth on tyres [the 1400s power isnt harsh] and camp out in the nicer weather rounds, then you can trim a chunk off that, As Andy Chalmers says £2000 all in for last year and he came runner up on the last round taken right down to the last stage for the 1400 championship
GRUNT 16V
10-06-09, 03:00 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_709-UY_kyd8/SZOj9yPkiPI/AAAAAAAAARk/jEvU4PiEuHc/s400/vtec-just-kicked-in-yo.jpg
IS THIS ANOTHER POINTLESS THREAD OR WHAT??????????????????
Good luck finding a 1400 V-Tec ;) espcially one with over 98bhp.
in relation the BRC Stars tend to require close to £10k a year budget,
And the rest!!
rallydak
10-06-09, 10:22 PM
see alot of us are suggesting a vauxhall 1400 tuned way out which does give good power but as us no urself that would mean spending thousands and thousands. that is why i was suggesting either a 1400 or 1600 vtec engine. as the nova is a light and vewry good handling car which give you a bit of an advantage over the civics if you could get it into the nova.
You ever seen the physical size of an average Civic engine?? A 1500cc Civic LSi engine weights more then a GM 2600cc 6 pot & box :thumb:
Good theory, but in reality, just no.
napalm_27
10-06-09, 10:45 PM
V6 in the boot FTW
or
go buy a 6R4 lol
You ever seen the physical size of an average Civic engine?? A 1500cc Civic LSi engine weights more then a GM 2600cc 6 pot & box :thumb:
Good theory, but in reality, just no.
How do civics deal with this weight? Beefed up engine mounts and high poudage springs?
rallydak
11-06-09, 12:05 AM
do you mean the weight would be too much for the nova to handle??? would a 1600 vtec really be that heavy??? il admit i no nothing about hondas thats why im asking you guys for your input. what about the guy that put a crx engine into his nova in the projects???
craig green
11-06-09, 12:07 AM
They are heavy.
The guy that fitted it found the wheel didnt have much room to turn next to the gearbox before fouling. No idea if any shafts were put in.
You need to mate a GM box to it.
Thousands to get a 1400 up to decent power? I think not. Cams, power box and a decent exhaust could see good power easy!
xxspudxx
11-06-09, 12:48 PM
Thousands to get a 1400 up to decent power? I think not. Cams, power box and a decent exhaust could see good power easy!
I agree with that, but it depends what your wanting to do "decent power" wont be to competitive compared to those spending thousands with lil monsters reving to like 9k
George g
11-06-09, 03:54 PM
I agree with that, but it depends what your wanting to do "decent power" wont be to competitive compared to those spending thousands with lil monsters reving to like 9k
to be fair chap, honda spest millions in 2007 on a car for there last year in formula 1 and they werent even competitive... but thats at the top of the racing ladder...
if you want to be competitive with a small budget, then IMHO you need to look at a single make championship, like the 205 challenge, or F1000.
also if you believe that you need a dogs bollocks engine to be competitive in rallying then you are horribly mistaken! its only when you get to the top and are actually using the full 100% of the car that the extra comes in...
to be honest chap i would just want to get out there! even with a dogs bollocks car you wont be that competitve in your first season anyway, and will more than likely ditch the car a couple of times...
sorry if you have prepped several rally cars before, but looking at your previous posts you are pretty new to the game, and there are too many 16 y/o's supposedly making big projects on here... a kid in my motorclub has just sacked off a pug 205 gti as he has not finished a rally in it for over a year, because he has crashed each time, yet he STILL blames the car too many people think that if you have the best car you will be the best and it gets on my tits! :mad:
good luck to you though! :thumb:
hc coupe
11-06-09, 04:10 PM
Very well said /\.
They best way forward maybe to do the Vauxhall conversion and gradually progress with tuning your engine as funds allow.
Starting off you may find it easier and gradually "upping" the power (depending upon how much experience you have) may be beneficial as your skills and “know-how” grows.
This may make an interesting read (http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Main.htm) if you haven't come across it before.
Best of luck with the completion and that’s only what I would do?
Helps it become more feasible
Tom
to be fair chap, honda spest millions on a car last year in formula 1 and they werent even competitive... but thats at the top...
Not strictly true, Last year Honda spent millions on the car now liveried up with Mr Brawns name on it. They did next to nothing in regards to development on the 2008 car at all.
But I digress. Back on topic.
George g
11-06-09, 06:04 PM
Not strictly true, Last year Honda spent millions on the car now liveried up with Mr Brawns name on it. They did next to nothing in regards to development on the 2008 car at all.
But I digress. Back on topic.
fair play... now edited lol :thumb: ;)
gavint5
11-06-09, 06:32 PM
a lightweight smal engine under 1400 cc that revs hard and produces good power hmm?
Think twice think bike!
greg1.4
12-06-09, 10:51 PM
sorry if you have prepped several rally cars before, but looking at your previous posts you are pretty new to the game, and there are too many 16 y/o's supposedly making big projects on here... a kid in my motorclub has just sacked off a pug 205 gti as he has not finished a rally in it for over a year, because he has crashed each time, yet he STILL blames the car too many people think that if you have the best car you will be the best and it gets on my tits! :mad:
George, hope that comment about 16 year old's aint towards me?lol
craig green
12-06-09, 10:52 PM
George, hope that comment about 16 year old's aint towards me?lol
Tbh all the car forums I use have plenty of schoolyard modders. :D
craig green
12-06-09, 10:57 PM
A 1400Xe with a powerbox & 4 branch mated to a box with a diff & decent tyres ought to be competitive. Add in some cams when the budget allows & a remap to raise the revs, the engine doesnt need to cost the earth. (though I think on the 1400 the pistons & valves are closer in terms of cam lift).
greg1.4
12-06-09, 11:03 PM
Tbh all the car forums I use have plenty of schoolyard modders. :D
i cant see the problem, i do have a fair few nova projects but it keeps me out of trobule.. lol
if i am not at work making money to spend on my novas, i am working on them!
i cant see the problem, i do have a fair few nova projects but it keeps me out of trobule.. lol
if i am not at work making money to spend on my novas, i am working on them!
And everyone needs to start somewhere, could be jealousy as you have a nice car that many users quite a lot more senior than yourself would aspire to.
could be jealousy .
More then likely. I had an uber spec R5 GTT when i like 17/18, a lot of users on the GTT owners club appear to be @unts to me because of this, they were twice my age yet ran half the power lol lol
Oh well, life goes on so they say....
greg1.4
12-06-09, 11:12 PM
mmm, could look at it that way i suppose..
cheers ben and mike..i am not really bothered what people think anyway..
cheers ben and mike..i am not really bothered what people think anyway..
Quite right mate FTC!
rallydak
15-06-09, 02:13 PM
yea i have been compiting in sprints and what not since i was 15 so i have a bita competition experience under my belt. and the reason i am asking these questions now is so when i am building the car i could do it right the first time instead of building it using a good 1400 vauxhall engine then if it were possible having to changing everything to do a vtec conversion on it which would see me spending a lot more money on it. so it makes sense to do it right the first time.
i agree its not all about the engine in a rally or sprint car a lot of it is down to experience, driving skill, handling of the car and everything. but i have been doing competition and follow it a lot and i no that you can get good finishes with an alright car if you are a good driver and the car can handle. but when you start to get to the top of any class you need just that little bit extra power because at the end of the day its going to be down to just a few seconds and you cant afford to loose any.
also everyone who you will be competing against are using 1400 vauxhall engines or swift engines so that is why if it is possible i think it would be better looking for alternative engines instead of doing the norm as everyone else. because if any of you no anything about rallying or sprints the people competing are spending big money on there cars so i thought would it not be better if you were able to get a car as quick as theres but cost less.
George g
15-06-09, 07:10 PM
Greg1.4
your nova is a great example of what i am on about. you are building it up from the ground. i.e. it didn't have a quaife gerabox, and now does... i didnt realise you were just 16 though! nice one!
as for jealousy, it only extends to how i would have loved to build a rally car at 16, but im not going to get annoyed at those who can or slag them off for it...
Rallydak
i was trying to point out that if you want to be at the top of the ladder, then of course you will need to spend thousands to get the extra power, however there is a viable alternative if cost is a major issue to you.
in one of my previous posts i pointed out the 205 challenge has rules stopping massive spending on the car & engine to get more of an advantage...
alternatively reside to the fact you dont have the budget to be at the top and start with a mild engine, working your way up when the budget allows...
i am sorry if it seemed like a dig, it was not meant to be, more how i have seen loads of people think that they will be the best if they have the best car, but it does not always work like that...
rallydak
16-06-09, 04:35 PM
George g
i totally understand where your coming from mate i no the people who you are talking about that spend thousands on a car then cant drive it. and i no the 205 classes you are talking bout they look good the only thing is they don't run at the events that i am aiming to do. i am looking to do sprints and that odd small local rally just nothing big. and i no to be at the top of those classes you would have to be spending thousands thats why i was looking at an alternative. but if i cant find one i will go ahead with a vauxhall one and make it better over time. but im not as worried with the engine at this moment i am concentrating on handling etc. mainly. it was just if there was an alternative i would like to do and shell modifications for it now when i am preparing the rest of the shell if you can see were i am coming from and this was one of the main reasons i was wanting to know if there were any alternatives out there to start of with.
like i no what your talking about mate i will be improving the car in areas as im using it more and as the budget increases it was just i wanted to sort out if there was a good engine alternate from the start so i wouldn't have to start cutting up my shell when i am competing with it. and i do agree with what you say handling and driver skill is much more important than a good engine. but if no one can think of any other alternatives il just stick with the vauxhall i think.
only one other concern i would have would be driveshafts. ino that a lot in motorsport when people start getting good power out of the vauxhall engines they have a tendency to start breaking drives with the abuse they be getting. but i should be safe enough shouldnt i going 1400 its more when you get up into 1600 territory they start to give bother isn't it??
and i was just woundring how do the guys get the vtecs to fit into the minis. do they not have a lot of weight and size issues etc.
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