View Full Version : E/C16SE on bike carbs/webers, for and against.
Been looking, (more out of curiosty really) About running a gsi lump on bike carbs.. What benefits/disadvantages are there of running these over the traditional webers or similar. (have searched too, but not bought much up)
What's needed to run them? And costs? which Ignition? Inlet manifold from where? which fuel tank/pump? ect. What model bike are the carbs taken from?
How reliable are they? What sort of mpg figure could be expected? What sort of horsepower output could also be expected?
And on webers? cost? Expected power output?
Enough questions for now! Fankoo!
R1 carbs work.
use a 1.4sr ignition setup
facet/low pressure pump (or the r1 pump)
Inlet will need be a custom jobbie.
Could keep the std carb tank
If you can get a 1.4sr ignition setup, and a £60 set of carbs, its then just inlet/fuel pump cost. Could probably have it up and running for about £250-£300.
Whereas Webers and inlet usually go for about that much, unless you find a bargain
Would the carbs need to be re-jetted for car use?
Re-drill the jets.
Or you can fit some from a weber carb(think it might be a dgav), there a direct fit and come in 005 size differences if you get me.
So if you need a 1.5mm main jet, fit a 150 weber jet... which is the same
some people say that bike carbs give power throttle control and driveability. however my brother has just fitted some and i am honest seriously impressed at how good his car now starts, drives and runs. i would recommend and use them instead of webers as it only cost him about £100 to do the conversion
gazjoiner
16-03-09, 11:37 PM
some people say that bike carbs give power throttle control and driveability. however my brother has just fitted some and i am honest seriously impressed at how good his car now starts, drives and runs. i would recommend and use them instead of webers as it only cost him about £100 to do the conversion
i,ve been toying about this idea also, with a gsi c16se coil pack lump:confused: ! idealy what would be the best cc engine ect to go with? its really tempting:D
some people say that bike carbs give power throttle control and driveability. however my brother has just fitted some and i am honest seriously impressed at how good his car now starts, drives and runs. i would recommend and use them instead of webers as it only cost him about £100 to do the conversion
What were they fitted on burgo? Sounds good!
Can anything other then r1 carbs be used? Where can inlets be purchased from?
Gazjoiner, if you used the c16se, you'd have to swap to a dizzy drive ign.
Inlets can be purchased from Bogg Bros. :thumb:
And a 4month waiting list
Tom reid had a few alloy inlets for round ports head, not sure if he still has any for sale....
John, im pretty sure if you contact Bogg Bros they will make you a full r1 kit including maifold etc :)
Lol had forgotten about Tom "bikecarb" Reid, lol will drop him a a pm.
Jay I'd prefer to diy if i do eventually do it. keep costs down
tom reid
17-03-09, 09:06 PM
John
I've been running R1 bike carbs on my 1400 Nova since last June, with a 4.1 diff and CR gbox, great fun to drive, and the noise is just as good as Webbers, I hadan ast 2 cam and the drivability and reliabilty fine, made a few trips to Surrey and back with no issues, was getting 27mpg with 3 people and luggage and I didn't spare the horses!
I use one of my own designs and have them made to order, other manifolds are available ranging from 160 - 200, last time I enquired at Boggys, I asked for 5 manifolds and what discount they'd give me, they thought I was taking the piss, so lost my business, they quoted 180 i think plus 25 post and 16 week wait.
I use a 1400 SR dist, but am close to fitting a Megajolt unit which will see improvments over the std dizzy.
Jets, don't buy them, just drill out your existing ones, i can give you pointers if and when your'e ready.
Alternator bracket needs modding and the temp switch needs repositioning onto the thermostat housing, depending on manifold purchased.
Your'e welcome to come over and try mine anytime, Iv'e just put an Autosprint 290deg low lift cam in and it works really well with the bike carbs, although not really practical for the commute/daily driver.
tom reid
17-03-09, 09:11 PM
Lol had forgotten about Tom "bikecarb" Reid, lol will drop him a a pm.
lol lol and I thought i was known for my gayness:gay:
John
I've been running R1 bike carbs on my 1400 Nova since last June, with a 4.1 diff and CR gbox, great fun to drive, and the noise is just as good as Webbers, I hadan ast 2 cam and the drivability and reliabilty fine, made a few trips to Surrey and back with no issues, was getting 27mpg with 3 people and luggage and I didn't spare the horses!
I use one of my own designs and have them made to order, other manifolds are available ranging from 160 - 200, last time I enquired at Boggys, I asked for 5 manifolds and what discount they'd give me, they thought I was taking the piss, so lost my business, they quoted 180 i think plus 25 post and 16 week wait.
I use a 1400 SR dist, but am close to fitting a Megajolt unit which will see improvments over the std dizzy.
Jets, don't buy them, just drill out your existing ones, i can give you pointers if and when your'e ready.
Alternator bracket needs modding and the temp switch needs repositioning onto the thermostat housing, depending on manifold purchased.
Your'e welcome to come over and try mine anytime, Iv'e just put an Autosprint 290deg low lift cam in and it works really well with the bike carbs, although not really practical for the commute/daily driver.
There's the response i was after! Any pics of your manifold tom? Are they alloy? 16 weeks is taking the pee a bit i reckon! When i have a spare sat (few and far between atm!) I'll drop you a pm, wouldn't mind going for a blast and having a nose around. If i do go ahead, it'll be a daily driver, so need to keep it as reliable as poss.
What sort of power do you think you're getting Tom?
lol lol and I thought i was known for my gayness:gay:
And that lol lol
tom reid
17-03-09, 09:25 PM
Reliability won't be an issue with carbs, you know as well as I do, it's mostly down to a lack of maintenance that causes unreliability.
Power is not known with the 290 cam, with ast 2 was 117.
tom reid
19-03-09, 07:44 AM
Have a look here John, plenty of pics, and video, it's a 1200, but the manifold is the same.
http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106518&highlight=pound+nova
Southie
19-03-09, 09:16 AM
Highly recommended from my point of view. I used R1 carbs on my old 1400 and they were fantastic. The throttle response was always there when you needed it and didn't need a lot of setting up at all. I ran them with a Piper cam (suited for twin 40's) and vernier, rebored engine and a set of ARP bolts. The engine was pushing out 135bhp at the wheels when tested at Bogg Bros, oh and yes they take forever as I found out 4 and a half years ago. They had my car for 8 weeks so i wouldn't recommend them at all.
The only 2 problems I had were: 1 when I used to floor it after a while the tubing which was attached to the manifold and the carbs, would decide to come apart. Probably due to the silicone tubing I used not having a good seal.
The 2nd was when I had the accelerator cable snap on me. A nightmare to find another but eventually fit one from a rover 214 lol
I wish I had of rebuilt my old engine now instead of going down the c16xe route. Would have been a lot easier and I miss the sound of the carbs:cry:
tom reid
19-03-09, 09:51 AM
Why not go for BC on your X16, only megasquirt required.
Southie
19-03-09, 10:06 AM
Why not go for BC on your X16, only megasquirt required.
Just saving some pennies, then was going to contact you regarding the manifold and megasquirt. Could also do with knowing someone to get it setup properly ;)
tom reid
19-03-09, 10:17 AM
I have a 16v inlet here waiting, dying to have a go at fitting/tuning one of these as I'll be using an x16 in the rallycar. I don't really believe that a RR is needed to tune, I run up the road with the wideband and tune where the engine needs it, might get more interesting when running megajolt.I'm having a few issues with fuelling just now, since i fitted the 290 deg cam, it's good throughout the rev band, getting a bit weak on full throttle and won't idle below 1500, very weak again, but I'll be playin later, I have a good idea that I'll need to put in a bigger needle jet, mess with the pilot jet and a few other bits, so still learning, but loving it!
Southie
19-03-09, 10:32 AM
Sound like your having too much fun Tom lol
As we know, the 1400 8valves are cracking so must admit I would love to get my C16 running on bikecarbs. It's all basically there as the engine goes i.e rebuilt, ported polished, uprated pretensioners and 284 sbd cams, but I've only wanted to put a standard injection unit on to give it a run it really :D
tom reid
19-03-09, 10:36 AM
You can never have too much fun,lol, sbd284 cams?, will they run on std managment? You up for a learning experience as well then?, i'd be up for a go on your's.
Southie
19-03-09, 10:51 AM
Its all fun. Yeah I'm up for being a Guinea pig x2 for the bike carb experience lol
As for the cams could be the reason why I ain't got the bugger firing then :(
I was told by the lad I bought it off that he had all the standard pistons and had the valve pockets deepened. Is this the wrong set up for the cams then? :confused:
And would it affect the standard ignition setup???
tom reid
19-03-09, 10:54 AM
I don't know the answers to your questions, I assumed that the 284 was the duration of your cams, and was just asking, out of curiosity, Lol, what do SBD say?
tom reid
19-03-09, 11:01 AM
The man fromSBD, he say this...
The SBD 284 & SBD278 cams have been designed give about 15 -20 BHP* over standard cams, without compromising the drivability of the standard engine, they produce a power band of 2500 - 7500 RPM. They can be used with the standard pistons when the valve pockets are deepened. If used with Omega pistons & steel rods it will allow the compression to be raised. This increases the torque across the entire rev range and the steel rods allow the use of higher revs.
Southie
19-03-09, 11:06 AM
To be honest I haven't contacted them. Didn't realise the cams would have been a issue running on standard ECU setup. I will give them a call late :D
I will PM you Tom when I have sorted the problem out and then I can arrange so bike carb tinker time :thumb:
Edit: Cheers for that Tom +rep
craig green
19-03-09, 12:49 PM
IMO you may aswell fit a big block 8v on 40's to a F13/F15 box with std shafts. More power at the end of the day & the donor engine will likely be cheaper.
Personally I love the early 18E injection engines.
tom reid
19-03-09, 01:18 PM
Wouldn't dream of disagreeing with you Craig, your'e entitled to your opinion, even if your'e wrong,lol
craig green
19-03-09, 01:25 PM
I didnt read any of the previous replies in the thread tbh.
Its not like John doesn't know his stuff or needs telling what to do..
I have a 16v inlet here waiting, dying to have a go at fitting/tuning one of these as I'll be using an x16 in the rallycar. I don't really believe that a RR is needed to tune, I run up the road with the wideband and tune where the engine needs it, might get more interesting when running megajolt.I'm having a few issues with fuelling just now, since i fitted the 290 deg cam, it's good throughout the rev band, getting a bit weak on full throttle and won't idle below 1500, very weak again, but I'll be playin later, I have a good idea that I'll need to put in a bigger needle jet, mess with the pilot jet and a few other bits, so still learning, but loving it!
And whats the plan for ignition mapping/tweaks??
You need rollers to hold the engine at a particular load/speed so you can map each table value to get the best ignition...?
Fuelling is the easy bit with a wideband setup.
tom reid
20-03-09, 07:39 PM
Live mapping FTW, it's the future!
nuno_gt
22-03-15, 11:52 PM
Hi guys and gals,
After saw this topic, i'd like to ask a few questions as i'm planning to do this conversion on my Nova.
My Nova has a hybrid C16SE conversion, i.e., block and head from a C16SE and the rest is from a C13SB so, its carb'd with the known "Auto-choke and pierburg carb"setup. Which carb models can be fitted? I'm looking for CBR600 carbs.
Which procedures should i observe with ignition, fuelling, etc, to make the conversion running good and with a "economic" sight of the things?
Waiting for your replies.
phunkynova
23-03-15, 05:52 AM
Hi guys and gals,
After saw this topic, i'd like to ask a few questions as i'm planning to do this conversion on my Nova.
My Nova has a hybrid C16SE conversion, i.e., block and head from a C16SE and the rest is from a C13SB so, its carb'd with the known "Auto-choke and pierburg carb"setup. Which carb models can be fitted? I'm looking for CBR600 carbs.
Which procedures should i observe with ignition, fuelling, etc, to make the conversion running good and with a "economic" sight of the things?
Waiting for your replies.
nuno I've sent you a P M
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