View Full Version : All tho's with cars lowerd more then 80mm
Right i had the car lowerd 90mm at the front. And the shafts was always poping out. So now ive had to raise it back up to around 70mm and im not happy with it. Is it anyway to get round this problem. And have any of you had this problem?
Move the wheels closer? :confused: lol
I could put them at a more neg camber but i will say bye bye to tyres lol
MyNovaSr
07-03-09, 07:11 PM
Im not the best but dont you have a castle nut which should stop it moving?
I assume they're coming out at the gearbox end.
Im not the best but dont you have a castle nut which should stop it moving?
Umm im going to sound very dumb but i dont know what the castle nut is lol. Its on adjutable top mounts if that makes any diference
L33 LEG
07-03-09, 07:17 PM
I could put them at a more neg camber but i will say bye bye to tyres lol
i would warn you away from doing that. you should see the state of the camber on my cars, and the tyres for that matter lol
I assume they're coming out at the gearbox end.
Yea they are well only the pass side
i would warn you away from doing that. you should see the state of the camber on my cars, and the tyres for that matter lol
Yea i will, i cant buy new tyres so thats 100% out the window lol
Umm im going to sound very dumb but i dont know what the castle nut is lol. Its on adjutable top mounts if that makes any diference
The castle nut is the big nut that holds the outer CV in to the hub.
The castle nut is the big nut that holds the outer CV in to the hub.
Oh yea, yea thats on nice and tight
floydy13
07-03-09, 07:33 PM
with the speed humps in plymouth, i would of thought 70ml was better for you!!
dj_wudgey
07-03-09, 10:00 PM
with the speed humps in plymouth, i would of thought 70ml was better for you!!
pmsl guess its **** for speed bumps round your way then!!
Never had this prob, and mines gotta have been 80 or lower.
With the movement in the cv knuckeles it being lower shouldnt make them pop. Circlips worn?
I know this might sound daft but are you sure that they were in properly?
I always put mine in then get a piece of wood and a hammer to knock them home.
General Baxter
07-03-09, 10:26 PM
mines around 100-110mm, never had a problem with the shaft
blue_peg_16v
07-03-09, 10:29 PM
mines 90mm and never had this problem
Hmm well the Circlips are fine. if the shaft came out could that cause damage to the gearbox and the reason its poping out?
pmsl guess its **** for speed bumps round your way then!!
I wish it was just ****. ill take a vid one day to show how bad it really is!
General Baxter
07-03-09, 10:49 PM
iirc, burgo had this problem, shaft kept on comming out and trashing cv's,
i think he said it was due to his chassis was bent,
or i could be talking out my crack lol
meritlover
07-03-09, 10:51 PM
oh i miss Burgo :(
Well before i had a problem with them poping out this happend to a cv
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/newnova011-2.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/b17ova/newnova012-2.jpg
Thats a knacked cv, nothing to do with it being lowerd.
meritlover
07-03-09, 10:57 PM
Thats a knacked cv, nothing to do with it being lowerd.
it has everything to do with being lowered!
they arent designed to operate at the angles they are subjected to on a lowered car.
I've never had a prob,
Think of a unlowerd nova, the shaft still sits at an angle,
Mine lowerd at around 80mm ish the shafts sit almost stright. Which would be better for non ware.
General Baxter
07-03-09, 11:01 PM
they arent designed to operate at the angles they are subjected to on a lowered car.
mine are ok at the 40 degree and there at lol
blue_peg_16v
07-03-09, 11:25 PM
had a mate wi a valver corsa that used to pop its long shaft all the time never got to the bottom of it but the car had been written off so his could of been bent
brainsnova
07-03-09, 11:28 PM
drop the engine 80mm lol just kidding
drop the engine 80mm lol just kidding
i was guna suggest moving the engine :P
The Simps
08-03-09, 12:56 AM
Mine's 8" and never have a problem with it falling out ;)
In all seriousness tho - what shafts are you running?
iirc, burgo had this problem, shaft kept on comming out and trashing cv's,
i think he said it was due to his chassis was bent,
or i could be talking out my crack lolyour talking out your crack. its cos the conversion shafts are got were to short and it was pulling the cv's apart when nailing it round corners.
bigs you know how low mine are and ive never had a problem. i would surgest the funny angle your engine was at and this is linked
p.s. im back now mr merit, it was only 24 hours
vallanc3
08-03-09, 02:20 AM
mines lowerd about 100mm at the front. the only prob i have is A.its a corsa. B. ive smashed the sump.
meritlover
08-03-09, 03:51 AM
I've never had a prob,
Think of a unlowerd nova, the shaft still sits at an angle,
.
...until you let the jack down and its almost straight.
your talking out your crack. its cos the conversion shafts are got were to short and it was pulling the cv's apart when nailing it round corners.
bigs you know how low mine are and ive never had a problem. i would surgest the funny angle your engine was at and this is linked
p.s. im back now mr merit, it was only 24 hours
Yea you could be right. So you think now ive sorted the car out with the engine now sitting as it should. it should be ok to lower it again?
btw im using 1.2 shafts
fearless
08-03-09, 11:46 AM
Insufficent drive shaft plunge !!!! Place a 5mm spacer between the cv joint and the wheel bearing/hub - althought you will have to redrill the split pin hole on the joint as it will no longer be visible when the spacer is fitted !!!
When your front suspension is at it's extreme's of travel - ie wheels off the floor or bottomed out - the length of the driveshaft is at it's longest as opposed to when the shaft is in the horizontal position (Shaft at it's shortest) - If the driveshaft is slightly to short - the cage/bearings in the cv joints are pulled out to the edge of the joint - running at there weakest point (resulting in the cv joint failing - you will probably see where the balls have pushed out the cv joint casing)
When you lower your car - the driveshaft will probably not be in the horizontal position (ideal) - running at an angle
By fitting a spacer on the end of the outer cv joint before you push it through hub and fit the nut on the end - you will be pushing the outer body of the cv joint further onto the shaft - allowing the cage/balls to run in the strongest part of the joint
It's a bit difficult to explain without showing you what I mean - bu I hope that makes sense
Dave
i had that with my XE nova, brand new cv broke in 2 weeks.
i had welded shafts, the short shaft was to short. with a other shaft i had no problems, and i was proper low.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/mayhem22/warm032.jpg
i had that with my XE nova, brand new cv broke in 2 weeks.
i had welded shafts, the short shaft was to short. with a other shaft i had no problems, and i was proper low.
is that a lower brace cutting the grass there? lol
Pistol Pete
08-03-09, 01:16 PM
Insufficent drive shaft plunge !!!! Place a 5mm spacer between the cv joint and the wheel bearing/hub - althought you will have to redrill the split pin hole on the joint as it will no longer be visible when the spacer is fitted !!!
When your front suspension is at it's extreme's of travel - ie wheels off the floor or bottomed out - the length of the driveshaft is at it's longest as opposed to when the shaft is in the horizontal position (Shaft at it's shortest) - If the driveshaft is slightly to short - the cage/bearings in the cv joints are pulled out to the edge of the joint - running at there weakest point (resulting in the cv joint failing - you will probably see where the balls have pushed out the cv joint casing)
When you lower your car - the driveshaft will probably not be in the horizontal position (ideal) - running at an angle
By fitting a spacer on the end of the outer cv joint before you push it through hub and fit the nut on the end - you will be pushing the outer body of the cv joint further onto the shaft - allowing the cage/balls to run in the strongest part of the joint
It's a bit difficult to explain without showing you what I mean - bu I hope that makes sense
Dave
/\ Sounds like a good idea. Proven?
Which bit? The ideas behind it is a major part of automotive engineering, I've been shown examples of driveshaft/CV/cup setups with a good 5-6 inches of plunge lol You'll probably still cook CV's because of the angles they're running at (the power loss at higher angles is through friction, so you can imagine what this does to the CV) but shafts shouldn't pop out.
You can't overdo it as obviously if the shaft is too long for the space between the 2 CV's your suspension will lock against them when they're near to level (in droop on a lowered car) and all hell will break loose. You'll "have a big smash up" as one of my manufacturing lecturers likes to say lol
the main problem is based on people putting power down when the steering is turned & the massive stresses put thru the shafts, and how to fix it.
Pistol Pete
08-03-09, 01:30 PM
Which bit? The ideas behind it is a major part of automotive engineering, I've been shown examples of driveshaft/CV/cup setups with a good 5-6 inches of plunge lol You'll probably still cook CV's because of the angles they're running at (the power loss at higher angles is through friction, so you can imagine what this does to the CV) but shafts shouldn't pop out.
You can't overdo it as obviously if the shaft is too long for the space between the 2 CV's your suspension will lock against them when they're near to level (in droop on a lowered car) and all hell will break loose. You'll "have a big smash up" as one of my manufacturing lecturers likes to say lol
What fearless said about putting a spacer behind the hub face. That is hardly major automotive engineering lol
No reason it shouldn't work, ideally you want a longer shaft, but where that's not possible a spacer is doing pretty much the same job, but the angle the driveshaft will run at will be larger, if you think of it as spacing it the whole length of the driveshaft you'd have a very short driveshaft running at 90 degrees to the gearbox.
And by major part of automotive eng. I meant the whole issue of driveshaft angles/plunge lol
Pistol Pete
08-03-09, 01:38 PM
Ah right lol
all this angle of the driveshaft shizzle. did anyone actually look at the angle of there shafts at standard ride height?? lowering the car improves the angle in my experience
Pistol Pete
08-03-09, 01:56 PM
But does this not put constant force on the CV? Where as standard ride height it will be variable.
The Simps
08-03-09, 02:02 PM
I dont know about my driveshaft angles yet as I havn't got them yet but everyone was saying that on a heavily lowered car your bottom arm will also be pointing to god. Mine sits like this...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/TheSimps/Nova/Nova%20Coupe%20Project/DSCF0105.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/TheSimps/Nova/Nova%20Coupe%20Project/DSCF01051.jpg
and thats at...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/TheSimps/Nova/Nova%20Coupe%20Project/18-01-09008.jpg
Pistol Pete
08-03-09, 02:06 PM
Looks slightly higher than horizontal. Shouldnt cause too much of an issue.
But does this not put constant force on the CV? Where as standard ride height it will be variable.im not sure. all i know is ive had two novas lowered about 100mm and never had a problem.
if its pulling the passenger side apart i would surgest you need to space the drivers side mount across
Pistol Pete
08-03-09, 02:12 PM
I myself have never experienced any issues either. I would still suspect iffy circlips on the gearbox end.
fearless
08-03-09, 02:18 PM
ideally you want a longer shaft, but where that's not possible a spacer is doing pretty much the same job
Correct - When I first bought my "heavy duty" shafts many many years ago from Mann Transmisions (Martyn Tinker) they were the only ones available - 2 ltr Nova's were unheard of lol
Running my nova low on the front resulted in going through about 5 CV joints:confused: and after many different attempts at trying to cure the problem - the only available cure at the time was spacing the cv joint with a spacer - and never again did I break a CV joint or shaft :thumb:
At a later date I found out it was a fix the rally boys used on Astra's and Nova's
In fact you can buy different thickness 'washers' at HHMS
http://www.hh-ms.com/database/index.php?SelCategoryID=5&SelModelID=14&SelSubCategoryID=25
A0787/8/9
But no reason why you can't make your own out of a few thinner washers :thumb:
Dave
Pistol Pete
08-03-09, 02:22 PM
Ah ha! I shall be making up some spacers to test when i get mine back together then!
Dirtydog1
08-03-09, 02:37 PM
im not sure if its already been said, but you can loosen the engine mount bolts etc and bar the engine over a bit, then re-tighten. ive experienced a similar issue before and this works a treat. sorry if its already been said, cant be arsed to read though all six pages
if its pulling the passenger side apart i would surgest you need to space the drivers side mount across
What engine is fitted? If its a big block have you spaced the gearbox mount over??
Geordie-Chris
08-03-09, 03:31 PM
As Fearless has mentiones - put a spacer between the outer CV joint and the bearing. M-Tech shafts used to come with these washers, I've got them on mine and have had no bother at all!
Ive got the feeling i should of put this in mechanical now lol
Cheers all for the replys. its been a great help on what i can do. think im going to try what fearless said and burgo. should pull them closer to the box
all this angle of the driveshaft shizzle. did anyone actually look at the angle of there shafts at standard ride height?? lowering the car improves the angle in my experience
My reply on the first page says the same, mine run almost stright.
And ive giving out rep to tho's that have tried to help. Some now have a extra green blob :D And if you havent had any from me you will. Ive giving out to much rep in 24hours so you will have to wait a day or so lol
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