project engine (some thing different)

[turbojolt]

i have been thinking long and hard about what i want engine wise in my nova and i think i have come up with it but i do have some questions and was wondering is some bright sparks here could help me out


what i want to build is a 1.2 ltr stroked out to 1.4 with the con-rods and crankshaft from a 1.4 ltr engine (also oil pump)

but then i want to mount a 1.4 sri cylinder head inlet manifold and fueling system

now i have been told this will lower the compression ration drastically to some thing around 8:5 mark is this right dose anyone know ??

well if it dose lower the compression ratio I'm thinking why not turbo charge it much like the 1.2 carb nova in the project section only difference will be mine will be a 1.4 multi-point injection turbocharged engine

so what engine management would it be best to use i was thinking mega-squirt as people seem to swear by it what do you think ??

will the sri injectors fuel enough for the engine or will gsi injectors be better ??


I'm assuming that a standard gsi fuel pump will be good enough as all i really want is around 130hp or would i be better off with a aftermarket such as walbro ??

what kind of boost would i be safe running with such a low compression ratio?? (i was thinking around 8-to-10 psi )


intercooler wise i dont want a cut out bumper so i was thinking some thing smaller like a transit turbo diesel intercooler as i have seen a td nova with one in place and looked good what are you opinions on this ??

turbocharger choice there are so many choices but from what i have read on turbocharging i want a fast spool up so i was thing like a t15 turbo what do you think ??

so that's all i can think of asking right now thanks for any advice/opinions in advance :thumb:


p.s i know it would be cheaper and better in some people opinions to xe or c20let but this is something i have my head set on doing now so as funds become available

[jimbob-mcgrew]

gonna cost u alot that combo, not to mention time and agro.
u could probably get a 1.6 8v mpi gte/gsi lump for 100 notes and will prob be just as good if not better.

edit : if youve allready got the 1.2 and 1.4 engines.. why not go mad and slap the 1.2 head on the 1.4 block to blast the compression up, will be a grizzly engine if it doesnt go bang first time u fire it up lol

[AlexW]

If your going to all that effort, why not fit a 1.4 with a 1.4 sri head?!!!

[Sloth]

cos he wants the c/r down... tj, get on msn tonight mate, we'll talk....

[jimbob-mcgrew]

if he's gonna run a 1.2 block with the compression way down, that 54 horse is gonna turn into like 40, untill the turbo cuts in, it'l probably up it to around 70. sounds like alot of effort for something thats not gonna be as good as a 1.3 carb.

[jimbob-mcgrew]

bah another double post, damn this net lag.

[turbojolt]

If your going to all that effort, why not fit a 1.4 with a 1.4 sri head?!!!


because a stroked 1.2 makes more torque then a standard 1.4

[turbojolt]

if he's gonna run a 1.2 block with the compression way down, that 54 horse is gonna turn into like 40, untill the turbo cuts in, it'l probably up it to around 70. sounds like alot of effort for something thats not gonna be as good as a 1.3 carb.


thats why i want a small turbo such as a t15 so it will take no time to spool up



edit... also i want to make something no one else has ever done before



if he's gonna run a 1.2 block with the compression way down, that 54 horse is gonna turn into like 40, untill the turbo cuts in, it'l probably up it to around 70. sounds like alot of effort for something thats not gonna be as good as a 1.3 carb.



what makes you think it will only produce 70hp i dont understand i would have thought 10psi would make a fairly powerful engine to be honest, there is a few turbo 1.2 mpi fiat chinq around making 150 hp from less boost that that and with no trick cams or engine work also im estimating between £1000-to 1300 for the build maybe less depending on part cost

[Jack]

intercooler wise i dont want a cut out bumper so i was thinking some thing smaller
Chargecooler :thumb:

Although the pump would probably sap to much power from a 1.2

[Mike]

^Use an electric pump & electric water pump aswell?

[turbojolt]

Chargecooler :thumb:

Although the pump would probably sap to much power from a 1.2



it will be a 1400 when the con rods and crank are changed :thumb:

are charge coolers expensive compared to a intercooler

[Mike]

are charge coolers expensive compared to a intercooler

Depends if you use a shtty standard I/C from a Derv Transit or buy a proper I/C. But generally, there expensive lol

[turbojolt]

Depends if you use a shtty standard I/C from a Derv Transit or buy a proper I/C. But generally, there expensive lol


lol i see your point but i dont want to spend mega money on a part that will do and handle the power i dont want i i/c that can handle 600hp when my aim is 130 odd


cooling wise im now thinking gsi radiator, low temp thermostat,external oil cooler,silicone coolant hoses, and maybe looking into a elec water pump

[Mike]

For the price you cant go wrong with a GSi rad.

I run a GSi rad, 3" thick twin pass intercooler, intercooler spray, silicone hoses etc etc you get the idea. Just need a pair of twin fans to top it off now.

[turbojolt]

For the price you cant go wrong with a GSi rad.

I run a GSi rad, 3" thick twin pass intercooler, intercooler spray, silicone hoses etc etc you get the idea. Just need a pair of twin fans to top it off now.


sounds like a really trick system mate

[Mike]

sounds like a really trick system mate

Not really, just a well though out DIY set up. All the parts I've used are/were readily avaliable to the public. Including a gearbox oil pump for use with a transmission oil cooler.

EDIT: This is fitted to a 1600 motor, not a 1200 like your planning BTW.

[turbojolt]

Not really, just a well though out DIY set up. All the parts I've used are/were readily avaliable to the public. Including a gearbox oil pump for use with a transmission oil cooler.

EDIT: This is fitted to a 1600 motor, not a 1200 like your planning BTW.


what kind of power do you make mate and on what boost


also you got any pictures of your exhaust manifold :thumb:

[Sloth]

tj get on msn.....

[Mike]

what kind of power do you make mate and on what boost

also you got any pictures of your exhaust manifold :thumb:

It dosen't make any power at the minute as its got no top end on the engine lol although the basic output are caculated at ITRO 170 to 180bhp @ 12psi.

The turbo manifold is simply a GM cast iron 8v manifold.

[turbojolt]

It dosen't make any power at the minute as its got no top end on the engine lol although the basic output are caculated at ITRO 170 to 180bhp @ 12psi.

The turbo manifold is simply a GM cast iron 8v manifold.


did you modify the manifold your self to fit the turbo


also what kind of turbo are you running t3 :thumb:

[jimbob-mcgrew]

so wait, lemme get this straight..
your using the 1.2 bottom end, but ditching the desirable short throw crank and rods for not so desirable long throw 1.4 parts ?
wont you have to skim a load of the 1.2 piston tops to stop them rising above the block.

wouldnt it be better to just use a complete 1.2 / 1.3 / 1.4 engine with a coupla head gaskets on it, to drop the compression so it could handle a turbo ?

i dunno what other people are thinking, and no offense to ya, but it just seems silly what your planning.
your gonna have to fork out alot of money, and fair play cos u want something different, but its not gonna be as good as what you could get for your money in the long run.

[Mike]

did you modify the manifold your self to fit the turbo


also what kind of turbo are you running t3 :thumb:

Yep, done the manifold myself with a little help from a certain part from America lol

T3? Dont be silly, it'll be laggy as fcuk and make boost at 70k million rpm on such a small engine!

[turbojolt]

Yep, done the manifold myself with a little help from a certain part from America lol

T3? Dont be silly, it'll be laggy as fcuk and make boost at 70k million rpm on such a small engine!

didint the escort rs turbo use a t3 :confused:



so wait, lemme get this straight..
your using the 1.2 bottom end, but ditching the desirable short throw crank and rods for not so desirable long throw 1.4 parts ?
wont you have to skim a load of the 1.2 piston tops to stop them rising above the block.

wouldnt it be better to just use a complete 1.2 / 1.3 / 1.4 engine with a coupla head gaskets on it, to drop the compression so it could handle a turbo ?

i dunno what other people are thinking, and no offense to ya, but it just seems silly what your planning.
your gonna have to fork out alot of money, and fair play cos u want something different, but its not gonna be as good as what you could get for your money in the long run.



i was talking to sloth and im now thinking of just using a 1.4 spi block and a 1.6 mpi head so should bring the cost down

[meritlover]

Yep, done the manifold myself with a little help from a certain part from America lol

T3? Dont be silly, it'll be laggy as fcuk and make boost at 70k million rpm on such a small engine!

with the right trim and turbine selection. you should be able to find one that suits a reasonable efficiency range for your engine.

also try the T2/T25 however the flange is different to the T3 so decide before you get a manifold.

better to work out the flow and where peak torque is, then find a suitable compressor map from there before using the 'suck-it-and-see' or the internet-tuner method.

[turbojolt]

like i say i want some thing that can flow a good 130 to 145'ish hp then i will be happy but i dont want to have to wait until 4k for the turbo to start spooling

[Mike]

like i say i want some thing that can flow a good 130 to 145'ish hp then i will be happy but i dont want to have to wait until 4k for the turbo to start spooling

A t3 would be wasted running such small power. Your best it is a T2 for that (R5, RST stylee)

[Sloth]

indeed, as i suggested the saab t25 is an excellent turbo, and very plentiful, thats where my cash would go. t2's are old now, as are t3's.

[turbojolt]

1.4 block , 1.6 head , t25 , 130sr injectors, megasquirt, front mount intercooler, f13 gearbox and shafts



would it be easy to make some sort of bracket to move the radiator back so the intercooler would be able to fit up front in the rads orginal postion, or would this put the rad to close to the turbo and manifold

[jimbob-mcgrew]

i was talking to sloth and im now thinking of just using a 1.4 spi block and a 1.6 mpi head so should bring the cost down

thas more like it :thumb: - that'll save u so much agro, and youll squeeze more horse outta that combo, might need to get a slight skim off the head for compression, but sounds good.
pair em with a wee turbo for quick enganging boost and itll be a small block warrior :)

[meritlover]

T3s are cheaper to rebuild DIY.

T2/T25s are available in thousands of flavours.

huge selections of compressor and turbine profiles. build yourself a hybrid with a smaller turbine and a well sized compressor.

[Mike]

Aye, its a T25 that i use, for perfect reasoning too :thumb:

[turbojolt]

i cant wait to get it started now just need to start a new job first lol

might push it for 150'ish hp to compete with the xe boys


the thing on my mind right now is the cost of having the car mapped can any give me a rough estimate

[Sloth]

dude get on www.vaux-extreme.com (http://www.vaux-extreme.com) and speak to astra 8vt, he does mapping for megasquirt. so,
1.4 spi block
1.6 mpi head and ecu and loom
t25 turbo,
adaptor flange for std manifold
f13cr box,
2.0 brakes,
megasquirt,
frontera i/c.
c20ne injectors.

thats a good set up.

[jimbob-mcgrew]

ive got a feeling your not gonna hit 150 horse with that combo, but if u do.. the F13 probably wont take it. youll need an F15 or something hybrid.

[Sloth]

theres a guy hitting 170 bhp, with the same spec, just a 1.6 spi bottom end. its not hard, and well under stressed. i know of a c16net being built to 230bhp on a t3 hybrid and saab reds...

[turbojolt]

there is a guy on here with 1.6 turbo running 190hp on a f13 box and he said it handled the power well

[turbojolt]

can you buy the flanges to adaptor the manifold or will i have to knock something up

[Mike]

can you buy the flanges to adaptor the manifold or will i have to knock something up

Yes & no lol


there is a guy on here with 1.6 turbo running 190hp on a f13 box and he said it handled the power well

Who be that then?

[turbojolt]

Yes & no lol



Who be that then?


this is the thread i read it on clicky (http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102130&page=3) (gear-box)



yes and no im confused lol

[Mike]

this is the thread i read it on clicky (http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102130&page=3) (gear-box)

yes and no im confused lol

Ohhhhh Nova-Neils (IIRC) old engine! That thing is a mish mash of bladdy everything with a bit of OMEX (IIRC) thrown in lol

The highest power "DIY" 1.6T on here was RR'd at 174bhp ATF. Im out to crack it TBH lol

Yes & No - There are a few flanges you can get from America but they need machining to fit an 8v cast manifold (This is what i run on my 1.6T)

[turbojolt]

Ohhhhh Nova-Neils (IIRC) old engine! That thing is a mish mash of bladdy everything with a bit of OMEX (IIRC) thrown in lol

The highest power "DIY" 1.6T on here was RR'd at 174bhp ATF. Im out to crack it TBH lol

Yes & No - There are a few flanges you can get from America but they need machining to fit an 8v cast manifold (This is what i run on my 1.6T)


cheers for the info mate dont suppose you could send me a link off the place to get the plates from could you :)

[Mike]

cheers for the info mate dont suppose you could send me a link off the place to get the plates from could you :)

Its not a plate, its a cast iron peice :thumb:

I cant really send you a link as i bought it 12months ago & cant remember where i had it from lol all i remember is it took ages to track down exactly what i needed.

[turbojolt]

Its not a plate, its a cast iron peice :thumb:

I cant really send you a link as i bought it 12months ago & cant remember where i had it from lol all i remember is it took ages to track down exactly what i needed.


alright mate thanks anyway :thumb:

[turbojolt]

mike would it be rude of me to ask for some pictures of the manifold adaptor and some measurements :)

[Mike]

Its a double ended (ooh err) cast iron flange. One end is T2/T25/T28 ( basically any 2 series exhaust housing) and the other side is T3/T34 styleee.

Its not a straight fit at all though, it needed an hour or so on the Bridgeport to mill matierial off & spot 2 holes (12mm Dia) in position X (cant measure it as its not with me at the mo) the 2 holes enable it to be bolted onto a GM cast manifold.

IIRC it cost about £60 or something including import tax?

Pic's taken from my build thread:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/296.jpg

You can see below, the cast manifold needs a little fettling (opening out) to match new flange.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/294.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/287.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j181/mikenova/TWOC%20Rebuild/288.jpg

Once youve sorted the manifold, you need to sort the oil feed. This is where you ball ache will begin if your after an off the shelf simpleton soloution.

[turbojolt]

i dont think i can even attempted to make something like that lol i will have to get hunting

what kind off trouble should i be expecting oil feed wise then

[Mike]

what kind off trouble should i be expecting oil feed wise then

Measuring sheetloads of oil feed fittings, thread/pitch sizes on the oil pump blanked outlets or drill & tapping an outlet on the block or oil pump.

Then theres the fuelling, lowering compression, keeping oil pressure, keeping fuel pressure. Dont be fooled into thinking its easy turboing an N/A chap. I wish id never started my engine build TBH.

[turbojolt]

Measuring sheetloads of oil feed fittings, thread/pitch sizes on the oil pump blanked outlets or drill & tapping an outlet on the block or oil pump.

Then theres the fuelling, lowering compression, keeping oil pressure, keeping fuel pressure. Dont be fooled into thinking its easy turboing an N/A chap. I wish id never started my engine build TBH.


i dont think it will be easy but i will be looking for easy ways to do certian things, and lowering the compression my way is a very easy thing to do (hopefully) lol

it shouldn't be to bad as there are plenty off people on here that seem to know what they are talking about


oil pressure wise i was thinking will i not need a uprated oil pump if i want to run a external oil cooler

[jimbob-mcgrew]

provided youve got a decent welder, should be fairly easy to make jolt.

just make 2 simple-build chunky plates, one that fits the manifold side, and one that fits the turbo side and weld em together with another chunky piece of circular pipe between the 2.

mikes left u some good pictures there to use as a blueprint for the build.

tricky bits gonna be drilling & tapping the holes to match the bolts, and the flow port, but providing you arent too far off, and you do the bolts up good and tight, the gaskets should do their thing.

could probably knock one together in a coupla hours or so provided you had all the materials/tools to hand.

[Mike]

AFAIK you cant get uprated oil pumps for GM 8vs anyway lol not that you'll need one anyway.

There may be people on here that seem to know, but there aint many on here that have ever charged up an N/A chap!! Ask Baxter, it can be a ballache of a conversion if you DIY it :thumb:

[turbojolt]

could probably knock one together in a coupla hours or so provided you had all the materials/tools to hand.


i dont have either lol but i might now a man that dose and can

[Mike]

provided youve got a decent welder, should be fairly easy to make jolt.

just make 2 simple-build chunky plates, one that fits the manifold side, and one that fits the turbo side and weld em together with another chunky piece of circular pipe between the 2.

mikes left u some good pictures there to use as a blueprint for the build.

tricky bits gonna be drilling & tapping the holes to match the bolts, and the flow port, but providing you arent too far off, and you do the bolts up good and tight, the gaskets should do their thing.

could probably knock one together in a coupla hours or so provided you had all the materials/tools to hand.

Good thinking, but IMHO i wouldnt DIY a flange with a garage stylee welder!! The heat from the charger will easily crack half hearted welds!

[Mike]

If your prepared to wait a few months, ill be putting together a massive "DIY Turbo an N/A motor" guide with millions of pics, part numbers and advice etc etc.

[jimbob-mcgrew]

yeh. lol true, ive seen a few rolling road cars that have been glowing white hot at the manifold bend, surprised they didnt melt.

[turbojolt]

If your prepared to wait a few months, ill be putting together a massive "DIY Turbo an N/A motor" guide with millions of pics, part numbers and advice etc etc.


i will not be financially able to do this with in a few months anyway mate lol so i will be looking forward to the read :thumb:

[Sloth]

tj ive seen em done using one plate, technicalsteve did his like tthat. the feeds easy if ya know where to look and use.....

[turbojolt]

i sent that guy a message about the megasquirt