here we go, big block v's small block (not the normal thread)

[General Baxter]

right iv got around £600 for a new engine

adam has offered me his 1.6 16v for £300, this would leave me £300 extra for mods, (or £300 towords a set of TB's)


or £400 - £500 on a 2L 16v, lol

[peester]

burgo.

try the x18xe1.. (small block 1800) kinda 'inbetween'..

adams has never been raced or rallied tho..

[skidmarkz]

big blocks rock, :)

[General Baxter]

adams has never been raced or rallied tho..

lol

[Adam]

adams has never been raced or rallied tho..
That is true :)

[General Baxter]

I'm only really interested in Adams, as its just so reliable lol

[twistysnovagte]

although im in the small block catogery,id say a 20xe£250-£300 and £200-£250 towards the rebuild of it over the winter ready for the summer:) then go selling the big issue outside wollworths to raise extra cash for partslol

[let_nova]

woolworths wont be there tho ?? lol

[discoinferno]

big block all the way

[Lee]

As soon as Adam lets it go, it will explode into a million bits!

Big Block FTW!

[twistysnovagte]

woolworths wont be there tho ?? lolwas still open today :confused:

[skidmarkz]

big block nova! the small blocks just cant keep up :P unless its blue and sounds like a jump jet :)

[General Baxter]

big block nova! the small blocks just cant keep up :P unless its blue and sounds like a jump jet :)

about 1 and a half months later, it would have a set of bodys on, if i pick the 1.6 lol

[Spudly]

Do it nick, stick with the smallblock, you sound like you wanna anyways:thumb:

[General Baxter]

going to start something here, i give it 10 posts before its locks lol

small blocks handle lol

what iv got to remember tho, its my everyday car lol

[MyNovaSr]

mines a small block, if you call the 2L 8v small lol

[Spudly]

small blocks handle lol




With comments like that it wont even be 10lol

[Jack]

http://www.v8developments.co.uk/images/DSC00021.JPG

:D

[dhdev (Oli)]

Go big block for a daily driver :eek:

[skidmarkz]

big blocks handle, me and trackdaynova proved it at donny wet & dry!

[Huffy]

i read in total vauxhall mag that the weight diffrents is much between a big block 2.0 16v and the 1.6 16v id say big block i heard a story that jamsports mark brosters 1.6 16v corsa had 190bhp but know talk ??? and i also heard that you just carnt beat CC thats what i heard im not saying its right tho

[dhdev (Oli)]

i read in total vauxhall mag that the weight diffrents is much between a big block 2.0 16v and the 1.6 16v id say big block i heard a story that jamsports mark brosters 1.6 16v corsa had 190bhp but know talk ??? and i also heard that you just carnt beat CC thats what i heard im not saying its right tho

:roll:

[Lee]

i also heard that you just carnt beat CC thats what i heard im not saying its right tho

You heard right :)

+100 rep :)

[Mike]

Cheap power would be a big block any day of the week TBH.

Cheap fix is defiently a small block though.

[Huffy]

dhdev (oli) are you in a vid on you tube in a valver nova ??

[dhdev (Oli)]

In my slow smallblock? Yes.

[Spudly]

http://www.v8developments.co.uk/images/DSC00021.JPG

:D



Smallblock chevy V8???




you just carnt beat CC

My mate always says something similar, (albeit aimed at turbos) but he always says there is no replacement for displacement

He is 23 and drives a BMw 740i so thats why lol

[Mike]

In my slow smallblock? Yes.

LMFAO lol

Depends on what you want to do TBH, spend loads of money making a 200bhp N/A smallblock, make 200bhp building a turbo small block, or spend £200 for an instant 150bhp starting point lol

[Jack]

Rover 3.5 V8

Inline 4 is for homos. Vee power is where its at :D

[General Baxter]

i think you lot are right, theres no replacement for displacement, it would mean just another month of waiting for some body's,

well maybe a bit more as id want to sort the chassis out :)

coilin smith will do me a complete conversion (everything) for £500 delivered to my door :)

[Mike]

^ everything being?

[Spudly]

Rover 3.5 V8

Inline 4 is for homos. Vee power is where its at :D



Damn was thinking SD1 motor aswell, mefail lol

[General Baxter]

engine, box, shafts, hubs, cv's, mounts, loom, ecu,

the main problem is trying to find it local enough, to make it worth buying,
the nova wont make 20miles, and would cost £20 to do 20miles in the troll lol
so id need it delivered

[skidmarkz]

engine, box, shafts, hubs, cv's, mounts, loom, ecu,

the main problem is trying to find it local enough, to make it worth buying,
the nova wont make 20miles, and would cost £20 to do 20miles in the troll lol
so id need it delivered

£500 isnt bad delivered when you think of the weight involved.

[Huffy]

In my slow smallblock? Yes.

is this it ??

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SITy-lChGbc :thumb:

[dhdev (Oli)]

is this it ??

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SITy-lChGbc :thumb:

That is OLLY Hewitt's bigblock.

This is mine (dhdev (OLI)) Slightly confusing I know. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eJYhUNFZT94

[Huffy]

That is OLLY Hewitt's bigblock.

This is mine (dhdev (OLI)) Slightly confusing I know. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eJYhUNFZT94


Just thought you may have spell you name diffrent on here that was all !!

[CoolTiger]

As soon as Adam lets it go, it will explode into a million bits!

Big Block FTW!

your not buying it are you :eek:
lol

[DaveyLC]

1.8 Small block FTW :D
http://www.dohc.co.uk/temp/corsa/08-12-08/08122008166.jpg

Perfectly suited to the Nova/Corsa.

There is more to life than just POWEERRRR.. You need to think about weight over the front wheels, torque and the delivery of that power :)

[Dar]

That is OLLY Hewitt's bigblock.

This is mine (dhdev (OLI)) Slightly confusing I know. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eJYhUNFZT94

lol no need to shout oily

[trackdaynova]

That isn't even my current car, and it still don't know whose hosting those vids, haven't a clue who StuZetec is :confused: lol

That vid is back from 2004 and my white Nova

[dhdev (Oli)]

lol no need to shout oily

That was the lecturers nickname for me at college, as I always used to manage to slip out of handing coursework late/not at all lol

[Lee]

There is more to life than just POWEERRRR.. You need to think about weight over the front wheels, torque and the delivery of that power :)

What tripe!

What you need you see, is enough power to snap the driveshafts :D

[DaveyLC]

Lol!! :D

[Dan]

or scatter rods, allegedly lol lol lol

[Lee]

Either is fine :D

[Adam]

For a everydayer, id go 20xe rather than needing to rev the f**k out of a small block to make std xe power

[DaveyLC]

For a everydayer, id go 20xe rather than needing to rev the f**k out of a small block to make std xe power

I see it the other way.. The XE produces peek torque very high up in the rev-range so you have to frap it to get the best out of it.. I'd discount the X14XE and X16XE as the inlets are **** and totally ruin a decent engine but the variable inlet Z16XE and Z18XE are awesome engines; torquey little buggers perfect for a tiny little car like the Nova :)

And considering my X18XE1 when it was completely standard in a straightline was on par with a Corsa Redtop kind of makes the red-top seem pointless when it gets its **** handed on the corners?

[CP]

I'm going to play devils advocate.

In the the recent vids kindly posted by the lads who went to donny last weekend ( looked like a great day- good work with the vids :thumb: )we clearly see Olly H overtaking Oli D on the straight into the pit lane chicane. It would appear that if they are under full power Olly H's was faster in straight line. By all accounts he was up Oli D's **** before the overtake.

However into the chicane Olly H's car struggles with what appears to me to be a bit of slightly too fast in lift off induced oversteer which has him sliding a bit of control on the exit. Oli D, slower in remains in control and is faster out and closes up on Olly H.

By the next corner Olly H has drawn away again a few cars length but overcooks the entrance speed slightly and understeers off. I think that if Oli D hadn't of been black flagged and was still racing he would have prolly got past Olly H.

Now I wasn't there but from what I could see in the vids, the assertion made by me and others way back that big blocks dont handle as well as small blocks still has some relevance.

In conclusion I think its fair to say that as far as big blocks go the trade off for extra grunt is a car thats a bit more of a handfull thru the twisty stuff making it hader to drive consistently faster than a smallblock over a range of conditions.

There we go - I've settled the argument - end oflol lol er I think:confused: :D

[trackdaynova]

You can't play devils advocate with Me & Oli Charles as we both sing from the same hymn sheet fortunately. :p

I did have a little understeer to compete with, and the abundance of lift off oversteer you saw was purely for entertainment purposes, as you'll see from my incar vids. I was purposely giving it large making it as fun as possible for the camcorders, for the laps where I wasn't doing so - watch previous vids :thumb:

However on Redgate, yes you're correct my entry speed was too fast, pushng me wide off the dry racing line (on 888s) which left me no alternative but to bail out onto the green stuff.

I know I'm about to be pounced on by smallblockers, but hey.

One thing I think we can all say, that attended the trackday - is that on the vids, the track surface looks lovely and dry, I can tell you now it wasn't it was, damp and greasy as hell lol

[BRoadGhost]

What people should think about more is balancing the weight no matter what it is front to back. If you ever achieved 50/50 and the ideal left to right balance then that slight ballast wouldn't mean so much. That's the holy grail as I see it.

[Dan]

Tbh the old handling arguement is old hat, i have always said this and appreciate either can be made to handle. But there is a reason how this can be yet the old arguement still continues...

When the big blocks first started to be fitted there was very few limited options available suspension wise, and this continued for years thus they never did handle the same and the arguement started for very valid reasons. Now the other oldskoolers like myself will agree that the last few years have seen many more so motorsport derived options filtering down to us normal people at a greatly reduced rate, thus making it more widely available.

With this in mind the arguement from days of old that has been passed down generations lol lol still burns on but actually doesnt have as much of a standing to be preached from as both options of engine can be setup to perform almost equally. The biggest let down is there are still far to many people who dont sort the cars properly, or have them for just plain road use on mediocre suspension then claim they dont handle when they wave the car at a track or a few sweeping roundabouts etc. For this reason the arguement will never die, but for those who actually make the effort to decide how to set the car up and fully appreciate what they have set it up for, they will always know the truth :)

My only fear is that there is also alot of people seeing all this adjustable stuff and slapping it on so the spec sheet reads awesomely but as they have fettled they have destroyed some of the true essence of the car and sometimes end up with a worse car then if they hadn't touched it. obviously those of you that i know are clued up enough as you actually use and abuse the cars to understand, but this doesnt count for the thousands out there who just buy stuff and slap it on without a clue

And relax lol lol

[DaveyLC]

The available suspension technologies only cover up the symptoms of the problems; the issue is the chassis was never designed to be so front end heavy, even the small block motors have problems with lift off oversteer and you just make it even worse by putting more weight up the front end.

Yeah having shed loads of power offsets the speed lost in the corners and thats all good on a track with long straights but you get on something nice and tight and the small blocks will be on top :D

Its a shame the 1.8 hasnt transferred over so much from the Corsa C, there are loads of 1.8 SRi's running silly power and the conversion is far far simpler than going to a red-top.

[CP]

Seriously, we do need another subject to argue about - this ones about shot and we're starting to agree with each other - wheres Dick Raper when you need him?lol :D

[Andy_L]

TBH the fact that it's Adams engine I'd go for that. Proven power, ready to be driven.

If you get an XE you've got a quick TLC (cambelt, water pump, tensioners etc).

From the lazy point of view small block FTUW.

[Lee]

What people should think about more is balancing the weight no matter what it is front to back. If you ever achieved 50/50 and the ideal left to right balance then that slight ballast wouldn't mean so much. That's the holy grail as I see it.
I agree to an extent, but you will never achieve that in a FF setup chassis without adding a mahoosive amount of ballast to the rear, which undoubtedly would make the handling suffer (twin engine jobs probably have a far better weight distribution than FF's, but ive never seen one do well on a circuit). Only FR's running rear mounted gearboxes get anywhere near 50/50.

But to add weight to your arguement, one thing Ive always done from the beginning which is different to a lot of other track goers on here is run a standard Nova battery hanging over the back end, rather than use a pissy little motorbike battery mounted centrally. I tend to upgrade my car one mod at a time so i know EXACTLY what its doing (going back to Dans arguement which was spot on) and this was one change that I could notice a definate improvement! Infact its something im going to force Dan to try as he plays around with his new found proper engine! lol

Bottom line is, without going over what anyone has said before, is to make a car go fast, you need a balance of handling and power, and I know for a fact from evidence of being in and watching Dars car, as well as fiddling about with mine, that the big block really doesn't make a difference if you do the right stuff to your chassis, and it really doesn't NEED to be loaded with adjustable stuff. Sometimes just knowing how your suspension works, a nice stiff chassis and selecting the correct tyre is all you need to have excellent results.



......Basically what Im trying to say is, small blocks are for homo's :)

[Benn]

Hang the funk on. £400-500 on a xe?! Where the funk are you buying that from? Is it gold plated? I paid £130 for my last one and its the best one i've had!

We're being ripped off big big big time if you are even thinking of buying one for that price,

[craig green]

Hang the funk on. £400-500 on a xe?! Where the funk are you buying that from? Is it gold plated? I paid £130 for my last one and its the best one i've had!

We're being ripped off big big big time if you are even thinking of buying one for that price,

Keep up Benn.

Baxter can't afford to travel & collect but Colin Smith will deliver the full running gear & XE to his door for £500. Shafts, mounts, box etc..... Not bad.

I say big block it Baxter.

Personally I think most people with a brave pill can pilot a bigblock Nova through a set of bends as fast as a smallblock Nova (assume both have decent setup) but the heavier engine/box does blunt the driving characteristics. Novas are crap, but are addictive to drive, lessen the appeal of that experience & I wouldnt want one.

[Jim]

I can't wait till next year.

[General Baxter]

well what ever engine i get im going to stitch weld, and buy a set of gaz coilies,

but i might aswell go for the large block, as one will end up in there in time anyway, just cut out the middle man lol

[DaveyLC]

Z18XE turbo! Be the first Nova :D

[craig green]

I can't wait till next year.

:confused: Do tell.

[Mike]

is run a standard Nova battery hanging over the back end, rather than use a pissy little motorbike battery mounted centrally.

.....Basically what Im trying to say is, small blocks are for homo's :)

Been preaching this for a long long time, but no funker listens lol yea OE batts are heavy, but the weight is ideal for rear end ballast. Also moving the washer bottle from directly off the suspention strut top to a central or even rear position will have miniscule positive effects on damper re-bound.

And yes, small block's are for homo's. But boosted one's aint :p

[loggyboy]

Keep up Benn.

Baxter can't afford to travel & collect but Colin Smith will deliver the full running gear & XE to his door for £500. Shafts, mounts, box etc..... Not bad.



Id be inclined to wait until a c20xe came up locally and spend alot less than £500 (maybe £200-300) on a complete car, meaning you can see it running and then break and sell the other parts and make your money back. With that money you get back you could get the Shafts (22 spline) and mounts. meaning the remaining budget on big block tuning or chassis tuning.


All the direct 'on track' comparisons between big and small blocks are irrelevant is its largely driver dependent. You'd need to get a Stig style TG powerlap to be 99% sure which was the better car.

The further thing is the difference in weight between small and big block, i seem to recall a figure of 30kgs... thats not as much as every one assumes and is easily offsetable with lighter components and weight shifting.

[Benn]

Keep up Benn.

Baxter can't afford to travel & collect but Colin Smith will deliver the full running gear & XE to his door for £500. Shafts, mounts, box etc..... Not bad.
.

Ok i didnt know he cant travel, but still a engine and box on a pallet is about 50-100, so that makes the xe £400. Thats a whole rotten car money.

[General Baxter]

Ok i didnt know he cant travel, but still a engine and box on a pallet is about 50-100, so that makes the xe £400. Thats a whole rotten car money.

i can but at 15mpg in a diesel, it will get a bit costly lol


remember tho, that includes conversion shafts, (£100+ now) mounts, ect:

[John]

iirc you had a whole cally xe once baxter, oh yeah you sold it me for £50 lol lol.

[Adam]

Pmsl lol lol

[General Baxter]

iirc you had a whole cally xe once baxter, oh yeah you sold it me for £50 lol lol.

yeah but i needed it gone that day, as i left the country for two weeks the days after lol

[Benn]

i can but at 15mpg in a diesel, it will get a bit costly lol

remember tho, that includes conversion shafts, (£100+ now) mounts, ect:

Ah have conv shafts and mounts ect makes it a bit different.
I'd say do it then. Xes are fun on road and track.

[Mike]

iirc you had a whole cally xe once baxter, oh yeah you sold it me for £50 lol lol.

Gutted lol

[BRoadGhost]

I think it's possible to get 50/50 on a nova from ride heights & cage without the need to smuggle peter kay in the boot every time.

[Mike]

Easily possible if the fuel tank is mounted internally :thumb:

[Lee]

I think it's possible to get 50/50 on a nova from ride heights & cage without the need to smuggle peter kay in the boot every time.

I believe you. Thousands wouldn't.

[Lee]

Easily possible if the fuel tank is mounted internally :thumb:
lmfao Mike, it would have to be a big tank, and it would have to be hanging right over the back end. And it would have to be constantly full lol

EDIT. Probably possible with a lot of fettling IE bringing the engine back, moving the driver back ALA BTCC cars, which WERE near 50/50, especially as they lightened the cars past the weight limit and then loaded the ballast back on where they needed it.

We're talking standard ish FF here, not massive budget WRC or pre 200 BTCC lol

[General Baxter]

Gutted lol

yeah but it didnot go with the special gearbox in it mike lol

[Mike]

lmfao Mike, it would have to be a big tank, and it would have to be hanging right over the back end. And it would have to be constantly full lol

I know yeah, but thats what i mean, its so easily achievable with a 42 litre tank.

[BRoadGhost]

I'm not even sure you would need a huge budget if you really thought about what can be done to tilt the weight where it needs to go.

Imagine the front at a standard ride height but the rear sils almost touching the floor - I could do that for a clementine and a lump of coal; Job done.

[CP]

Well thats just typical of the big block boys - never mind all the downsides of having weight. Instead lets do it the true homo way and attach big lumps of lead and acid filled plastic containers directly behind us to "balance" the car :roll:
Big block = crude and simple, no finesse, no style just a knuckles dragging along the ground approach to car handling. Obviously you prefer to have the thrill and excitement of a truck battery flying around the cockpit when you understeer off into the tyreslol Oh and of course I forgot- the real reason a Caterham R500 posted such a spectacular laptime to become Top Gear Car of the Year was all down to the clever postioning of the battery:D

Aint none of you heard of aero? Grip and handling without weight?:p

[trackdaynova]

CP - not read many trackday reports from you of late - how come you aint proving all the big blockers wrong?

[Dar]

I forgot- the real reason a Caterham R500 posted such a spectacular laptime to become Top Gear Car of the Year was all down to the clever postioning of the battery:D

Aint none of you heard of aero? Grip and handling without weight?:p

It also had alot to do with a 2l 16v engine producing 263bhp in a shoebox sized car lol
Damn fine car the R500

EDIT: Oi, relocating the battery makes perfect sence.

[BRoadGhost]

CP who even mentioned ballasts of "homo lead lumps to balance the car"

I'm not sure you're understanding some of the theory here. There are many things a serious driver's car should be implementing that aid handling ability whilst balancing corner weights.

To say a C20XE is without finesse amazes me - If you were to say a C20LET then i'ud be more inclined to agree with you because it's all torque in a narrower power band. People are still not understanding you don't want fcuk off amounts of torque in a light shell like a nova running 195 / 205 width rubber.

I take it when you say "no finesse" you mean not a nice free revving / responsive screamer like some of the tuned small blocks that are doing circuits now?

Fact is and Olly might agree with me is 200 horse power in a track prepared nova from the c20xe is "not a slow car" and owners feel is almost as fast as they dare. It is for this simple reason that next to no one goes all out on a C20XE build.

But understand this; there are people or person that have ~ they will rev high enough to give the response AND handling refinement that you might think only belong to the small block owners.

The main difference being 220BHP verses over 300. Nothing will make a bigger effect on overall lap times than that gulf in power.

[BRoadGhost]

…It belongs in a museum already and next to nobody's seen it even move under it's own steam.

[MC]

CP who even mentioned ballasts of "homo lead lumps to balance the car"

I'm not sure you're understanding some of the theory here. There are many things a serious driver's car should be implementing that aid handling ability whilst balancing corner weights.

To say a C20XE is without finesse amazes me - If you were to say a C20LET then i'ud be more inclined to agree with you because it's all torque in a narrower power band. People are still not understanding you don't want fcuk off amounts of torque in a light shell like a nova running 195 / 205 width rubber.

I take it when you say "no finesse" you mean not a nice free revving / responsive screamer like some of the tuned small blocks that are doing circuits now?

Fact is and Olly might agree with me is 200 horse power in a track prepared nova from the c20xe is "not a slow car" and owners feel is almost as fast as they dare. It is for this simple reason that next to no one goes all out on a C20XE build.

But understand this; there are people or person that have ~ they will rev high enough to give the response AND handling refinement that you might think only belong to the small block owners.

The main difference being 220BHP verses over 300. Nothing will make a bigger effect on overall lap times than that gulf in power.

I've thought it many times, but never said it, BRoadGhost, You are a cock!

What YOU fail to understand is that everyone taking part in this discussion knows each other personally and we all respect each other and the cars involved. This is light hearted friendly banter and the big block/small block debate has kept us amused for years!

Read CP's post again, with it in mind that Trackdaynova, Dar, Lee and CP know eachother and that CP might be executing some humour.......and that CP is approaching 90 years old and has a fair bit of knowledge and first hand experience himself.

[Dan]

+rep for that one mark

/me makes screen print of mark speaking his mind :eek: lol lol

I will just add this...


The main difference being 220BHP verses over 300. Nothing will make a bigger effect on overall lap times than that gulf in power.


I'm only adding this as myself and lee were just talking about this last night and i know he agrees, his 200bhp xe is set up very well except for a diff, he is also a bloody good driver who knows combe like the creases in his pants. Yet with just simple set up differences and a smallblock, in my old car he matched his fastest lap. Nothing special you may say until the fact that in mine he was over 60bhp down and a good dose of torque, and he had never driven my car before. He managed this feat within his first 15 laps. Thats the difference between power and setup, compared by the same driver all be it less experienced in the least powerful car.

This could go round and round all day, but at the end of it setup and selective methods can equal brute power with relative ease.

[DaveyLC]

It also had alot to do with a 2l 16v engine producing 263bhp in a shoebox sized car lol
Damn fine car the R500

EDIT: Oi, relocating the battery makes perfect sence.

Ah but in the R500 the driver is relocated to the boot lol

[CP]

CP - not read many trackday reports from you of late - how come you aint proving all the big blockers wrong?

Well Olly I learnt a loong time ago you are always a lot faster if your car is safely in bits in the workshop:D Plus I've got my own competition on the go with rick draper to see how much we can spend on ridiculously expensive parts for our Novas that makes no financial sense at all:roll: . Anyway I'll prolly get it done at christmas and then break it just before I'm due to go out on track:eek: lol

To be fair we have in the past driven most of the circuits in country and were out there on our own on track before it became as fashionable as it is with everyone nowadays.

[Jim]

I can't wait till next year.

:confused: Do tell.
According to the Chinese calendar, 2009 is the year of the Small Block ;)


CP - not read many trackday reports from you of late - how come you aint proving all the big blockers wrong?
All in good time Mr H ;)

[Dar]

Well Olly I learnt a loong time ago you are always a lot faster if your car is safely in bits in the workshop:D
:thumb: Mines ballistik :D
Seriously yours is going to be such a great car, it won't be fair you beating the big blocks:cry: You just keep it in bits in that workshop of yours:thumb:

[DaveyLC]

Why isnt there a Small Block Inside sticker? :P

[scott.parker]

Well well Ive just had some fun reading all that, i love the big Vs small block banter it's just ace!

Right first off i will through in my own thoughts on things...

Baxter if you want a nice easy swap with good power gains then do the C20XE, i had this dilemma years back with my old car, I'm sure there's a post about it back then, so i set about asking the longest running members of (old) PNG and NovaLoad, such as Jim,CP,Dan,Karl Rowntree Andy Bishop,on this topic and there opinions

A) Keep my 1600 8v and tune it using T40/cam set up,or turbo possibly?

B) C20XE it...blah blah blah!

They also came back with all these pro's and cons for both options,EG how easy is it to swap the engine, against how much money it coast to tune a less powered one etc..

Then some one also mentioned the fact that the old 20NE, or 20SEH 2.0 8v engine's might be worth thinking about, but i opted for the C20XE in the end.

So the car got the engine and i had some Koni adjustable's(they were shocking) with 1600 springs, when i first drove the car i was shocked how heavy the front end felt, it was no long my same little nova,it was a totally different car all together lol

So over time i realized i needed to sort the suspension as there was way to much understeer, this was when i bought your old Spax coilovers, i had a track day booked at donny so i fitted the rears as i didn't have time to do the fronts,and i could feel the benefits on the rear,but yet still the front was sliding into the bends full of understeer! the front were added but not kept for long.

So when i has some money i popped to Dave Marshalls and bought his old Avo coilovers of him,and his SBD TB set up (first met Lee at Dave's) and this totally changed the car again into something els, i then added the solid top mounts to them,and again saw the added turn in they gave to the cars characteristics.

So i did all these step one at a time,OK it was money down the drain each time i was replacing items, but i learned how they changed the car as i went etc.. Hench how i know what i was going to do on my present car as id already lent from my previous experience's..

Anyway back to the topic...lol

I've already said if you want the quick fix, go XE, or if your happy to be patient and spend some time getting an engine to where you want it then use Adams........

OR there is this option to, you could find a nice old 20NE, 20SEH and custom construct a Turbo conversion on it, as i think not only would you benefit from the less weight,but there is also more standard form power then a pre turbo'd 1600 8v, i know that 1600 8v's can be super fast car's, i passengerd in Dan's and i was smiling for ages, my mate Mike's turbo one is way more powerful then my XE (although less control,due to turbo lag) And then there is Oli Dankers, and CP's there amazing small block cars, it's all about time,money,set up's and trial and error etc.

What ever you choose mate, good luck to you:thumb:

Scott

[Jim]

Why isnt there a Small Block Inside sticker? :P
Cause those stickers are ghey and so 2003 :p

+1 rep for Scott. Good post.

[CP]

I'm only adding this as myself and lee were just talking about this last night and i know he agrees, his 200bhp xe is set up very well except for a diff, he is also a bloody good driver who knows combe like the creases in his pants. Yet with just simple set up differences and a smallblock, in my old car he matched his fastest lap. Nothing special you may say until the fact that in mine he was over 60bhp down and a good dose of torque, and he had never driven my car before. He managed this feat within his first 15 laps. Thats the difference between power and setup, compared by the same driver all be it less experienced in the least powerful car.


This is exactly the point that I think gets overlooked when, as we see in most posts about big vs small block, everyone piles in with the "Yay big blocks rool" attitude but I'm not sure many have actually driven a well sorted small block.
Dans grey small block car was a good example. I've driven that car on road and track and so have others and we all agreed it was damn fine handling car that was a lot quicker than its tech spec headline figures suggested at first glance.
In fact I would go further and say its about the best car for its type I've ever driven on the road and is just as good on track as drive there trackday weapon. And the reason was the handling - it was totally predictable and biddable and beautifully balanced. There are no nasty suprises and the net result was it gave you confidence to push it and find the limit. I think that the ability of a car to give this kind of confidence to us rank amateur drivers is worth a helluva lot of time on track especially on a tight circuit like Cadwell.

I reckon that in a sort of endurance based race between a few of the decent big block and small block cars with teams of 3 drivers each it would be a pretty even match and it wouldn't suprise me if a small block like dans grey one ended up right near the top of the mix.

[CP]

Oh yeah Dan why DID you get rid of that car?lol

And why didn't I buy it:roll: lol

[scott.parker]

I agree CP, that old car of Dan surprised me no end, i was actually twitching as he pushed it the car faster,and faster round this roundabout,and I'm thinking OK,he's going to fast :eek: and he kept pushing and the car just kept gripping and revving it's little balls off!!

I think i was actually laughing but you couldn't hear me:D lol

Scott

[Lee]

Well thats just typical of the big block boys - never mind all the downsides of having weight. Instead lets do it the true homo way and attach big lumps of lead and acid filled plastic containers directly behind us to "balance" the car :roll:
Big block = crude and simple, no finesse, no style just a knuckles dragging along the ground approach to car handling. Obviously you prefer to have the thrill and excitement of a truck battery flying around the cockpit when you understeer off into the tyreslol Oh and of course I forgot- the real reason a Caterham R500 posted such a spectacular laptime to become Top Gear Car of the Year was all down to the clever postioning of the battery:D

Aint none of you heard of aero? Grip and handling without weight?:p
You're just jealous that you can't actually add any weight to the chassis without fearing a complete stall on anything more than a 10% gradient!

I bet your rollcage is hollow as well!! My rear strut brace is a solid bar of depleated uranium, because I are a MAN!

And can we stop complementing Dan now please, the only reason I matched my best time in his car was because my car is sh*te lol lol


All joking aside though, im hoping that his new car will proove beyond any reasonable doubt that you CAN make a 2.0 handle brilliantly without adding a massive load of adjustability and ballast lol

And the irony is that it's Dan, godfather of the smallblock, and that makes that prospect all the more sweet for me! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[scott.parker]

lol lol yes it shall be a nice to see what the out come is with Dan next one.

[Jim]

And the irony is that it's Dan, godfather of the smallblock, and that makes that prospect all the more sweet for me! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You mean Gorilla of the smallblock? lol

Lee, I know your a closet small block really ;) lol

[Lee]

Lee, I know your a closet small block really ;) lol

When I got out of Dans car at combe, i was shaking.

They like to think it was from the adrenaline, but it was actually my inner rage that i had to admit it was good! :wtf:

[Dan]

And the irony that it is Dan, godfather of the smallblock, and that makes that prospect all the more sweet for me! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

GGGGGGAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYY lol lol lol lol

The new one WILL pass any barriers the old one had as regards handling, the more bits i slowly recieve the more my plan appears to be coming together. Lets remember i am of limited knowledge like every other man on this site, and as the select few know i have run my odd theories past you with some great feedback for further improvement, there are a few silly issues that may get changed but thats to be decided after its shakedown. Yes there will also be some changes against my better judgement that will make the childish few (you know who you are :p lol) run around with joy and fingers in the air lol

Only time will tell, but the dumb luck in this one is strong mmmmmmmmmmmm

[Jim]

When I got out of Dans car at combe, i was shaking.

They like to think it was from the adrenaline, but it was actually my inner rage that i had to admit it was good! :wtf:
+1 rep ;)

[DaveyLC]

OR there is this option to, you could find a nice old 20NE, 20SEH and custom construct a Turbo conversion on it, as i think not only would you benefit from the less weight

The weight difference between the 16v and the 8v is negligible.. but as you say the 8v has a lower C/R and better suited to forced induction (in standard form) :)

I think when someone builds a Z18 engined Nova there will be some gobsmacked people :thumb:

[Jim]

Where is the Z18 engine from?

[Lee]

I think when someone builds a Z18 engined Nova there will be some gobsmacked people :thumb:
Already been done pal, Mr Lee Hearsey has had his going for ages, TB's and all. There is a thread on MIG, his username is Lee303 (on here as well occasionally)

And I agree, looking at the ports on the head alone when he started the project showed the potential. They are massive!

[DaveyLC]

Does his car run? I've seen his posts and pics of the build but wasnt sure if it was a finished project?


Where is the Z18 engine from?

Late 1.8 Corsa/Astra/Vectra/Zafira

[Jim]

Given all the hassle that Lee had, would it not be easier to stick a Nova shell on a Corsa chassis? lol.

[Lee]

lol, most probably.

unless he had another massive fail, last thing i read was that he'd had it mapped. ive not been on MIG for ages thoguh so im not 100%. I tend to lose contact with him out of season lol

[DaveyLC]

The Z18XE goes in on standard nova mounts and mates up to the standard F10/F13 box.. Its a stupidly simple on a Corsa B dont see how it can be much harder on the Nova?

[scott.parker]

Oh Ive got an idea! Could just keep the engine in the Corsa SRi and try enjoying that? lol

No I'm sure it's a good engine and dose work very well in a nova too,but it's unfamiliar territory for some who's looking for easy power and a straight swap.

Scott

[Lee]

The Z18XE goes in on standard nova mounts and mates up to the standard F10/F13 box.. Its a stupidly simple on a Corsa B dont see how it can be much harder on the Nova?

Yes, but to avoid a complete ballache, you need to run aftermarket management, and you also need to do something about the flybywire throttle.

At the moment, while there are still LETS and XE's availiable, its still not cost effective to go for the Z18, no matter how good it is, although on the flipside, finding LETS and XE's that dont need a full rebuild is getting harder, which does offset the cost.

[scott.parker]

Yes, but to avoid a complete ballache, you need to run aftermarket management, and you also need to do something about the flybywire throttle.

At the moment, while there are still LETS and XE's availiable, its still not cost effective to go for the Z18, no matter how good it is, although on the flipside, finding LETS and XE's that dont need a full rebuild is getting harder, which does offset the cost.

Meh in short, what i said :p

[DaveyLC]

Yes, but to avoid a complete ballache, you need to run aftermarket management, and you also need to do something about the flybywire throttle.

Management is a piece of piss.. And the Fly-by-wire throttle isnt part of the pedal box so easy to retrofit.

[Lee]

Management is a piece of piss.. And the Fly-by-wire throttle isnt part of the pedal box so easy to retrofit.
I take it you have done this conversion?

Im afraid that some people struggle with the 4 wires needed to connect an XE. Thats fair enough, not everyone knows their way around wires.

But im lead to believe the ecu on the Z18 takes readings from other parts of the car amalagamated into the vehicles main loom?

Might be easy for some, but im pretty confidednt for most (including myself) it would be a ballache.

[DaveyLC]

Z18 uses simtec90.. It doesnt rely on a body control module.

Basically there are only a few wires that you need to mess about with, power, earth, ignition, diagnostic pin, transponder (2 wires), coolant temp, revs, and the 6 wires for the fly-by-wire throttle..

Brake switch and speedo feed are optional although a speedo feed should be used as the ECU behaves differently when the car is actually moving.

I've retro fitted engines with Motronic 1.5.5 (Z20LET), Simtec70 and Simte90 ECU's.. all are pretty simple when you narrow it down to the basic wiring components.

[Lee]

Z18 uses simtec90.. It doesnt rely on a body control module.

Basically there are only a few wires that you need to mess about with, power, earth, ignition, diagnostic pin, transponder (2 wires), coolant temp, revs, and the 6 wires for the fly-by-wire throttle..

Brake switch and speedo feed are optional although a speedo feed should be used as the ECU behaves differently when the car is actually moving.

I've retro fitted engines with Motronic 1.5.5 (Z20LET), Simtec70 and Simte90 ECU's.. all are pretty simple when you narrow it down to the basic wiring components.

Thanks for prooving me right. That looks like a ballache lol

Fair play though, you obviously know your onions.

[DaveyLC]

Thanks for prooving me right. That looks like a ballache lol

Fair play though, you obviously know your onions.

Just have to get over your fear or wires :thumb:

[Lee]

I dont have a fear of wires, i could probably work through it with enough time and the right diagrams lol My original point though was that its still not a cost effective option for the average nova owner who is after budget performance, and an easy install. I can happily get 200bhp from my old decrepid 2.0 16v, and I can chuck one of those into a Nova in 1 day, so im not going to fork out 100's for a Z18 and then fry my brain looking at wiring diagrams.

You may think its easy, but a rocket scientist would think its easy plotting a course to Mars. If you or I were to do it, whatever was launched would probably crash horribly into the Moon lol

I NEVER disputed how good the engine is though. Its a proper belter :)


EDIT actually, its technically a smallblock, so it sucks the fat one!!!!!!

[DaveyLC]

Z18 Engine, loom + ECU will set you back about £300-350..

You dont need to invest in engine mounts, drive shafts, hubs, **** around with gear selector mechanisms etc.. The only real 'hardcore' mechanical job is to fab the down pipe and make up some hoses for the heater matrix.

Surely the costs are relatively the same if people are doing the Redtop conversion and doing it properly?

[Stuart]

Even a driving retard like myself could pedel Dans old car(s) round the roads/track with reasonable ease :)
And Jims wasnt too shabby either :D

I might have to slip Dar a few bottles of iffy apple juice to blag a pilot of his, and of course just nick Lee's while hes not looking as I miss ranting that engine lol

[Ste L]

EDIT actually, its technically a smallblock, so it sucks the fat one!!!!!!

lol at that :thumb:



i wouldn't mind one, if or when the xe give's up the ghost in the xe..
but knowing me, would probably just bang another xe in it

[The Simps]

Been a good read this.

Reference Lee303's 1.8 TB'd lump. I "think" he got it all running but had gbox strength issues. He's now converted to a big block dog box and its just taking time to gather up the parts.

Its quite long now but I recommend anybody to read his thread as its got some great mods in there and a good read :- http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/projects-restorations/283840-lees-garage.html

[Lee]

Z18 Engine, loom + ECU will set you back about £300-350..

You dont need to invest in engine mounts, drive shafts, hubs, **** around with gear selector mechanisms etc.. The only real 'hardcore' mechanical job is to fab the down pipe and make up some hoses for the heater matrix.

Surely the costs are relatively the same if people are doing the Redtop conversion and doing it properly?
TBH if it IS as easy as you say it is, and you CAN get the engines that cheaply (and from what you have posted, I have no reason to doubt you), then I may myself look into that engine a bit closer for my next project.

But for me track car, its got to stay big block.

To quote John Lydon
'DO I use big blocks to compensate for a small willy? NO, I use big blocks because they're the best'

I restus my case.

[The Simps]

I think in the generals case, with it likely to be used more on road than on track, he'll enjoy the extra power over the "maybe" slight difference in corners.

[Dar]

I might have to slip Dar a few bottles of iffy apple juice to blag a pilot of his, and of course just nick Lee's while hes not looking as I miss ranting that engine lol
You wont fitlol Chris is probably about your size and he can just about fit his left leg in.

[scott.parker]

I think in the generals case, with it likely to be used more on road than on track, he'll enjoy the extra power over the "maybe" slight difference in corners.

coilovers are a MUST though.

[The Simps]

You don't have to have coilovers for a fast, safe road going XE but I'd want them for track use.

[Lee]

Baxter would need 300lb'ers even before an engine was fitted lol

EDIT and the thing is, that comment isn't even valid, cos i found out at karting we weigh the same :cry::cry:

[The Simps]

Oh, and reference fuel tank placement. Saloons/'loons/coupe's/sedan's have a perfect ledge at the back of the boot :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/TheSimps/Nova/Nova%20Coupe%20Project/07-09-072.jpg

[Stuart]

You wont fitlol Chris is probably about your size and he can just about fit his left leg in.

I'm used to fitting my hefty chassis into small cars though ;)

[scott.parker]

You don't have to have coilovers for a fast, safe road going XE but I'd want them for track use.

Well i would want them after know what mine felt like on "good" road use shock spring combinations in comparison to the coilovers.

But then again guess it all down to personal preference.

Scott

[trackdaynova]

To be fair we have in the past driven most of the circuits in country and were out there on our own on track before it became as fashionable as it is with everyone nowadays.Likewise Charles :thumb: Although I'm not 90 years old, as MC so politely put it, I did do my first trackday in 1999 so coming up 9 years, which isn't bad :thumb:

Jimny - All in good time, and I'm looking forward to it pal. PM sent ;)

[General Baxter]

Baxter would need 300lb'ers even before an engine was fitted lol

EDIT and the thing is, that comment isn't even valid, cos i found out at karting we weigh the same :cry::cry:

lol

[General Baxter]

Oh, and reference fuel tank placement. Saloons/'loons/coupe's/sedan's have a perfect ledge at the back of the boot :)

erm your ok, 3 door spi tank will do lol

[Jim]

Jimny - All in good time, and I'm looking forward to it pal. PM sent ;)
Is that message to me Olly? If so, I'v not had a pm. If its not for me then my bad.

[trackdaynova]

lol sorry I forgot to send it - sending now lol

[BRoadGhost]

MC:- "What YOU fail to understand is that everyone taking part in this discussion knows each other personally"

Truth of the matter is they don't.

Unfortunately MC in saying this and calling people you don't know personally "a cock" you represent the most narrow minded retarded hateful cnuts that reside in any given forum. You wanna take it to a derogatory level then I'll meet you there you sh1t eating cock muncher.

Evidently you know fcuk all about what's being built behind closed doors nor will you ever reach some of the most brilliant people behind them as you choose to dismiss rather than question. You would represent a knuckle dragging nova owner even if you had a one litre peter, so go ahead contiune with the abuse without justifying a statment like you're a cock.

FACT is pal YOU'RE the FCUKING cock

[General Baxter]

FACT is pal YOU'RE the FCUKING cock

any more of that in my thread, and ill see you hung :thumb:

[peester]

wow, we've gone round to the z18's.. like my first reply to the thread question lol. Im with dave -its the inbetween choice. Even if it includes a bit more wiring instead of mounts/welding/customising..

[peester]

top thread by the way; not had one like that in a while aye..?

[Adam]

wow, we've gone round to the z18's.. like my first reply to the thread question lol. Im with dave -its the inbetween choice. Even if it includes a bit more wiring instead of mounts/welding/customising..
Only problem with the small block 1800s is tbh a lack of available mods that give proven gains...? If your not happy with the standard power(about 120hp iirc ?).
Apart from de-cat exhaust manifolds, thats about it.
So i dont see them as giving any real benefit over a small block 1600, plus they cost more etc.....

Maybe id change my mind of i saw one in action though/drove one

If i were tb'ing a small block, then yeah id deffo go with a 1800.

[Lee]

MC:- "What YOU fail to understand is that everyone taking part in this discussion knows each other personally"

Truth of the matter is they don't.

Unfortunately MC in saying this and calling people you don't know personally "a cock" you represent the most narrow minded retarded hateful cnuts that reside in any given forum. You wanna take it to a derogatory level then I'll meet you there you sh1t eating cock muncher.

Evidently you know fcuk all about what's being built behind closed doors nor will you ever reach some of the most brilliant people behind them as you choose to dismiss rather than question. You would represent a knuckle dragging nova owner even if you had a one litre peter, so go ahead contiune with the abuse without justifying a statment like you're a cock.

FACT is pal YOU'RE the FCUKING cock
For goodness sake, fair enough, he called you a cock, but do you really think the best way to counter that is to call him a sh*t eating c*ck muncher? I might have had some sympathy for you there, but i have less than none now.

I mean come on, you should have left the retort 'and YOU are' back at school. Just take a chill pill.

Is there something in the air making people uber aggressive recently?????

[Stuart]

MC:- "What YOU fail to understand is that everyone taking part in this discussion knows each other personally"

Truth of the matter is they don't.

Unfortunately MC in saying this and calling people you don't know personally "a cock" you represent the most narrow minded retarded hateful cnuts that reside in any given forum. You wanna take it to a derogatory level then I'll meet you there you sh1t eating cock muncher.

Evidently you know fcuk all about what's being built behind closed doors nor will you ever reach some of the most brilliant people behind them as you choose to dismiss rather than question. You would represent a knuckle dragging nova owner even if you had a one litre peter, so go ahead contiune with the abuse without justifying a statment like you're a cock.

FACT is pal YOU'RE the FCUKING cock

He might have legs like a male chicken, but thats about it really....

so then, show us an uber closed doors build, or STFU ;)

[scott.parker]

Does any one on here in all the years actually know who BroadGhost,is or ever met him?
I would also like to see his project as his talk makes me think it will be a very very very ingenius bit of engineering.

Scott

[Ste L]

it's flushsimon from the old rb scott ;)

[Mike]

Totally off topic, but definetly one of the most informative & technically reading threads thats been on here for a long long time!!

IMHO, fcuk you all - forced induction small block will own all :thumb:

[MC]

MC:- "What YOU fail to understand is that everyone taking part in this discussion knows each other personally"

Truth of the matter is they don't.

Unfortunately MC in saying this and calling people you don't know personally "a cock" you represent the most narrow minded retarded hateful cnuts that reside in any given forum. You wanna take it to a derogatory level then I'll meet you there you sh1t eating cock muncher.

Evidently you know fcuk all about what's being built behind closed doors nor will you ever reach some of the most brilliant people behind them as you choose to dismiss rather than question. You would represent a knuckle dragging nova owner even if you had a one litre peter, so go ahead contiune with the abuse without justifying a statment like you're a cock.

FACT is pal YOU'RE the FCUKING cock

I need say nothing.

[DaveyLC]

Only problem with the small block 1800s is tbh a lack of available mods that give proven gains...? If your not happy with the standard power(about 120hp iirc ?).
Apart from de-cat exhaust manifolds, thats about it.
So i dont see them as giving any real benefit over a small block 1600, plus they cost more etc.....

Maybe id change my mind of i saw one in action though/drove one

If i were tb'ing a small block, then yeah id deffo go with a 1800.

Speak to the Corsa C boys... I was at TOTD last month and there was a Z18XE turbo running a safe 205bhp with NO internal mods.. The professional opinion of TOTD was that it had alot more to give..

As for advantages over the 1600:

1) The head design is light years ahead.
2) Its a long stroke engine so naturally it produces more torque.
3) It uses flashable solid state management.
4) The standard inlet manifold wasnt designed by morons.

[Adam]

Fair enough. Would be good to see what one in a nova goes like

[John]

Yes, but to avoid a complete ballache, you need to run aftermarket management, and you also need to do something about the flybywire throttle.

At the moment, while there are still LETS and XE's availiable, its still not cost effective to go for the Z18, no matter how good it is, although on the flipside, finding LETS and XE's that dont need a full rebuild is getting harder, which does offset the cost.

the early x18xe1's are throttle cable lee, found in the early mk4 astra and vectra. The looms in these cars don't look too complex either.

[Lee]

the early x18xe1's are throttle cable lee, found in the early mk4 astra and vectra. The looms in these cars don't look too complex either.

Is the x18 a smallblock?

[John]

yeah x18xe1 was fitted to early mk4 astras and the vectra b, and some zafiras. The ecu is bolted to the inlet manifold, the immobiliser key needs getting round though, i presume in the same way as the x16xe.

[Adam]

X18XE1 is
X18XE isn't (thats a big block 1800 eco)

The XE1 fitment apparently is as straight forward as a 1600 16v

[Jim]

So are we all agreeing that the best solution for the Nova is a well tuned 1800 small block?

[John]

http://i18.ebayimg.com/07/m/000/9e/cc/07e2_27.JPG
Throttle cable can clearly be seen just above the ecotec cover.

[John]

hmm, tempted to have a go at this myself!

[Adam]

So are we all agreeing that the best solution for the Nova is a well tuned 1800 small block?
Well, its the best of both worlds..... :thumb:

[DaveyLC]

The X18XE1 is a VERY easy conversion... I'm going to upgrade to simtec90 management soon (from a Z18XE, the blocks are the same).. The X18 was a doddle but the Z18 is defo the way forward.

[skidmarkz]

mid block :P

[DaveyLC]

mid block :P

Nah its still a small block, its the same block as the 1.4/1.6.

[Mike]

So are we all agreeing that the best solution for the Nova is a well tuned 1800 small block?

Sounds like it Jim

[Lee]

So to summerise, its still a smallblock, so in theory it still sucks the fat one.

Am I correct? :)

[Ste L]

Yes :D

[MC]

It does appear to bridge the gap between the two. Lee303's is a good example making 230bhp and about 170lbft of torque. I don't think he has been able to just buy stuff off the shelf to tune it like you can the 16xe or 20xe though.

[John]

iirc the heads aren't that good on the x18xe1s, and that the z head is better, is that right?

[DaveyLC]

iirc the heads aren't that good on the x18xe1s, and that the z head is better, is that right?

They are the same, tappered inlet goodness :)

Oh and they are awesome on fuel, not that anyone probably cares lol

[Lee]

Yes :D

Thought so. Thanks Ste, I can sleep tonight knowing I still have a superior engine :D

[Stuart]

Thought so. Thanks Ste, I can sleep tonight knowing I still have a superior engine :D


mainly because YOU didnt build it :p

[Lee]

mainly because YOU didnt build it :p

Im sure that wont stop it chucking a leg out of bed lol

[MC]

mainly because YOU didnt build it :p

And knowing who he bought it from, I'd be worried! lol

[Jim]

BUDGET

;)

[CP]

Tsk! who started all this argy bargy? Some stupid old fart I expect:roll:

Anyways back on topic, I agree totally with those tipping the use of newer engines. The stats from the std 1.6 T in the Corsa VXR for example are lipsmackingly good - 189 hp and torque to match. And being as its a small block it wont induce those worrying understeer tendencies nor will it require a lorry battery gaffer taped to the rear bumper to rectify that problem:p

Me, Jim and the **** eating cock muncher (BTW how DOES BRoadGhost know so much about him:confused: lol ) have discussed this subject before and I think that the use of newer engines will make the big vs small block argument somewhat redundant

[Lee]

BUDGET

;)

:cry:

[Stuart]

Me, Jim and the **** eating cock muncher (BTW how DOES BRoadGhost know so much about him:confused: lol )


lmfao :thumb:

[MC]

In fact if Chris T decided it was wise to buy and tune a 20XE then thats good enough reason to question it all!

[Lee]

Me, Jim and the **** eating cock muncher
Oh god, i imagined you saying that, and now im belly laughing so much it hurts, and I have tears streaming down my face! lollollol

[MC]

Tsk! who started all this argy bargy? Some stupid old fart I expect:roll:

Anyways back on topic, I agree totally with those tipping the use of newer engines. The stats from the std 1.6 T in the Corsa VXR for example are lipsmackingly good - 189 hp and torque to match. And being as its a small block it wont induce those worrying understeer tendencies nor will it require a lorry battery gaffer taped to the rear bumper to rectify that problem:p

Me, Jim and the **** eating cock muncher (BTW how DOES BRoadGhost know so much about him:confused: lol ) have discussed this subject before and I think that the use of newer engines will make the big vs small block argument somewhat redundant

One might ask where Jim and Cp are whilst I'm doing all this munching!?;)

[Mike]

Chris, Walsall Chris?

[Stuart]

Chris, Walsall Chris?


umm northen chris.... yes.... mind you that dosent narrow it down far lol

[Mike]

umm northen chris.... yes.... mind you that dosent narrow it down far lol

lol narrows it down erm, a little bit lol north is anywhere above Stoke for me lol

[Stuart]

lol narrows it down erm, a little bit lol north is anywhere above Stoke for me lol


anywhere above northampton sweetie ;)


nova---chris, scummie brummie, budggggeeeet, prossie murderer etc

[Jim]

Chris, Walsall Chris?
Known as Nova--Chris on here when he used to use the site.

Did a 'Rick Draper'...built an awesome car, used it once then broke it :(

[Mike]

anywhere above northampton sweetie ;)


nova---chris, scummie brummie, budggggeeeet, prossie murderer etc

LMFAO lol lol

He seemed a sound enough chap when i was there. Saying that, you could have at least popped round mine for a brew when you were there Lee, im only minutes away from him :thumb:

[MC]

Known as Nova--Chris on here when he used to use the site.

Did a 'Rick Draper'...built an awesome car, used it once then broke it :(

Did Rick actually use his car?

[Lee]

LMFAO lol lol

He seemed a sound enough chap when i was there. Saying that, you could have at least popped round mine for a brew when you were there Lee, im only minutes away from him :thumb:

We were far too busy breaking every environmental law by leaking many lubricating fluids onto the pavement, whilst pillaging the shell for bits.

I think Dan would have unscrewed the roof if there was a chance of getting it home lol

[Mike]

We were far too busy breaking every environmental law by leaking many lubricating fluids onto the pavement

Thats the spirit :thumb: i tough it was just me that dispose's of "lubricants" down conveniently placed storm drains lol

[dhdev (Oli)]

As far as I see lapping a track is made up of accelerating down the straights, braking and cornering. Power only improves acceleration and top speed. Weightloss improves acceleration, braking, cornering, etc etc. Therefore smallblock is the only choice worth making ;)
If you want to spend your time using power to make up for handling defecit come out of the closet and get an LET :thumb:

[Stuart]

Thats the spirit :thumb: i tough it was just me that dispose's of "lubricants" down conveniently placed storm drains lol


KY ?

[Lee]

No, it wasn't deliberate. It was more the fact that Brumski forgot he'd removed the fuel pump, so when we jacked up the car at the front to have the engine out, it pissed half a tank all over the road lol

[Mike]

KY ?

If thats your bag sugar :D

[Lee]

As far as I see lapping a track is made up of accelerating down the straights, braking and cornering. Power only improves acceleration and top speed. Weightloss improves acceleration, braking, cornering, etc etc. Therefore smallblock is the only choice worth making ;)
If you want to spend your time using power to make up for handling defecit come out of the closet and get an LET :thumb:
BACK IN THE CAGE GIMP! lol

[Mike]

it pissed half a tank all over the road lol

Sure his car wasnt my van in a previous life???

BTW, Ive got his GSi bumpers lol still got his reg plate somewhere lol lol

[dhdev (Oli)]

BACK IN THE CAGE GIMP! lol

Love you too :D

[MC]

BACK IN THE CAGE GIMP! lol

Friendly banter is great! lol

[Lee]

Love you too :D

:D

[Jim]

THIS is the best thread of the year, lmfao.

[Rick Draper]

Seriously, we do need another subject to argue about - this ones about shot and we're starting to agree with each other - wheres Dick Raper when you need him?lol :D
Speak of the devil! What do you want my to argue about?!:thumb:

[Stuart]

Jet Turbine or Turbo shaft ?

[Rick Draper]

I can't wait till next year.

Neither can i! My Corsa will be done and shud be proving 400bhp corsa's will handle! (thats providing the engine stays together this fecking time)

[Benn]

What do you want my to argue about?!:thumb:

Daddy or chips?

[Mike]

^^ lets start taking bets then ehh lol

[MC]

THIS is the best thread of the year, lmfao.

Was going to say that. It's cool how us guys that don't know each other can have such a laugh! :D

[General Baxter]

wtf has happened to this thread lol

[Jim]

Was going to say that. It's cool how us guys that don't know each other can have such a laugh! :D
I know what you mean...whoever you are. Now don't you have some s**t eating to do or are you c**k munching this evening?

Rick...£100 million dollars that you break your Corsa before it sees the road ;)

[Lee]

Now don't you have some s**t eating to do or are you c**k munching this evening?


And here was me thinking he could do them both at the same time? Im having that Rep back!

[dhdev (Oli)]

Rick...£100 million dollars that you break your Corsa before it sees the road ;)
Should've been more specific there Jim, 'seeing the road' could mean taking to be mapped....a few times....;)

[Rick Draper]

In fact if Chris T decided it was wise to buy and tune a 20XE then thats good enough reason to question it all!

And then make the even wiser decision to chuck it all in :thumb:

[Rick Draper]

Known as Nova--Chris on here when he used to use the site.

Did a 'Rick Draper'...built an awesome car, used it once then broke it :(

Hahaha. He did the right thing and by all accounts has never looked back.

[Rick Draper]

Daddy or chips?

Chicken or the Egg?

[Rick Draper]

Should've been more specific there Jim, 'seeing the road' could mean taking to be mapped....a few times....;)

And taking a dustpan and brush with me!

TBH i did think of moving to a different engine, 20XE, high cr, dry sumped, tb's all steel and my solid head. Then i though, feck it i have all the crap here for the turbo so i might as well stick with it.

[MC]

wtf has happened to this thread lol

Back on topic - I gather from the karting that you were suggesting that you had a few extra pounds to carry around and that the engines could have been more torquey? I reckon a 20XE will be a good choice! lol

[Jim]

Back on topic - I gather from the karting that you were suggesting that you had a few extra pounds to carry around and that the engines could have been more torquey? I reckon a 20XE will be a good choice! lol
LMFAO!

[General Baxter]

Back on topic - I gather from the karting that you were suggesting that you had a few extra pounds to carry around and that the engines could have been more torquey? I reckon a 20XE will be a good choice! lol

i even had a special fat man suit lol

[MC]

LMFAO!

Don't laugh, if he doesn't find it funny he'll be even more mad! :roll:

[General Baxter]

Don't laugh, if he doesn't find it funny he'll be even more mad! :roll:

im the jolly green giant :)

[Rick Draper]

Lee303's engine build on mig is inspirational. True credit to him imho. TBH i would really look into something like that if i was starting from scratch.

[Jim]

+1 rep for Baxter for being a good sport :thumb:

Seriously though baxter, for your budget, a 2.0xe is the best solution for an instant bhp increase.

[MC]

+1 rep for Baxter for being a good sport :thumb:

Seriously though baxter, for your budget, a 2.0xe is the best solution for an instant bhp increase.

That's two of us that have said you should go for a 20XE. We're trying reverse psycology!

[dhdev (Oli)]

That's two of us that have said you should go for a 20XE. We're trying reverse psycology!

I think you'll find back when this thread was on-topic, I recommended big block as well :eek:

[MC]

Lads, we have to stop it or they will think they have won! Or is it because we don't want just anyone in the elite club?

[CP]

wtf has happened to this thread lol

Well young man, I just hope you are feeling proud of yourself! Look what you started! Even Rick "The Breakerman" Draper, the biggest thread wind up merchant in MIG history has been forced from retirement to join the the fray:roll:

When will you people learn? Never mind the piffling rammifications of 9-11 or the invasion of Afghanistan or the rights and wrongs of the occupation of Iraq - the small block vs big block argument is pure dynamite. It has the power to divide the WORLD!lol

I'm actually that worked up that I'm going to get to a film crew from Al Jazeera round here tomorrow to film me and my small block buddies burning pictures of Lee and setting fire to a big block Nova:D

[General Baxter]

i think thats why i liked my TD, torque ahoy lol would wheel spin going from 4th to 5th lol

so its 80/20 big block at the mo,

id go for another TD but thats just being gay lol

[burgo]

WOW what an epic thread

[DaveyLC]

I think a 1.9CDTi would be the ballbags! :D

[Jim]

I'm actually that worked up that I'm going to get to a film crew from Al Jazeera round here tomorrow to film me and my small block buddies burning pictures of Lee and setting fire to a big block Nova:D
Do they have to be pictures of Lee? :wtf:

[Lee]

Or is it because we don't want just anyone in the elite club?
Is that why you threw Dan out? :)


Do they have to be pictures of Lee? :wtf:

Im sure they will let you hold onto yours, I know how much they mean to you x

[Jim]

We never threw Dan out, he left by himself after he was seduced by the dark side.

[craig green]

I think a 1.9CDTi would be the ballbags! :D

In a Nova? ........... I'd expect it to do an endo without even needing to dab the brakes!

[DaveyLC]

I dont think the block will be any heavier than the Red top.. The Astra H 1.9CDTi books in at 1320kg, thats pretty light for one big **** car so the engine cant be that heavy :D

[dhdev (Oli)]

I dont think the block will be any heavier than the Red top..

Like Craig said, doing an endo :cry:

[craig green]

An ISUZU 1.5 weighs more than an XE I reckon.

I can't see an all modern CDTi & all the crap that goes with it, incl its gearbox (or an F28) being considered light somehow.

[Welsh Dan]

A vectra (02-05) SRI manual hatchback 1.9cdti weighs 1521 kg according to parkers, the 2.2 petrol is 1427 kg and the 1.8 petrol is 1387.

Thats a fair weight difference!

[DaveyLC]

Blimey thats a bloody big difference.. Are the 1.9 and 2.2's both SRI's in that comparison?

[Welsh Dan]

All 3 of the ones I compared were SRI's.

[Ste L]

Seriously though baxter, for your budget, a 2.0xe is the best solution for an instant bhp increase.



That's two of us that have said you should go for a 20XE. We're trying reverse psycology!



I think you'll find back when this thread was on-topic, I recommended big block as well :eek:



*rub's eye's in dis-beleath*

3 of the main small blocker's saying to go big block, whats the world coming too lol

[DaveyLC]

Its a shame these use CANBUS management :( :
http://www.courtenaysport.co.uk/images/Corsa_OPC_Z16LET.jpg

[Ste L]

Its a shame these use CANBUS management :( :
http://www.courtenaysport.co.uk/images/Corsa_OPC_Z16LET.jpg


just go standalone managment then :thumb:

[Lee]

Thats the Corsa D VXR lump isnt it? Chris Astley got halfway through puting one in a Nova, but gave up.

As Ste said, he was going for standalone management on it. But again, I just cant see the point installing one into a rot box nova unless you really have a lack of things to talk about down the pub!

If I had a Corsa C (sorry, excuse me while i throw up in my mouth lol), i may consider it but in a Nova? Nah, id rather bolt a 2.3 saab lump in it and enjoy oral sex from Slothsport, or get Mike to build me a blown 1.6 8v so I can beat my record for how far accross the road i can spread my crankcase :)

[Mike]

Nah, id rather bolt a 2.3 saab lump in it and enjoy oral sex from Slothsport
LMFAO lol lol

[CP]

Thats the Corsa D VXR lump isnt it? Chris Astley got halfway through puting one in a Nova, but gave up.

As Ste said, he was going for standalone management on it. But again, I just cant see the point installing one into a rot box nova unless you really have a lack of things to talk about down the pub!

:thumb: Yeah you're right there mate. We've all got to get a sense of proportion - after all these are just Novas. Anybody spending over £5k on an engine for a poxy Nova has got to be a right plonker.......


........ err better call me Rodney then :cry: lol

Still as Rick says - its the journey that countslol

[Lee]

:thumb: Yeah you're right there mate. We've all got to get a sense of proportion - after all these are just Novas. Anybody spending over £5k on an engine for a poxy Nova has got to be a right plonker.......


........ err better call me Rodney then :cry: lol

Still as Rick says - its the journey that countslol

lmao. I think you miss interpreted what I meant there. Spending 5k on an engine for performance gains isn't a mentalist thing to do, but spending god knows what buying and installing a corsa VXR lump for 200bhp when a LET will do the job nicely is IMO.

[General Baxter]

:thumb: Yeah you're right there mate. We've all got to get a sense of proportion - after all these are just Novas. Anybody spending over £5k on an engine for a poxy Nova has got to be a right plonker.......

i must be the worlds biggest i spent that on a diesel lol

[Stuart]

ARGHHHHH its CAN only!!!!

[Fridge]

WOW what an epic thread

agreed, it should be a chat room.
I feel sorry for any poor bugger picking up the begging of this thread thinking they might find the answer to the question proposed

[General Baxter]

meh lol

[Lee]

agreed, it should be a chat room.
I feel sorry for any poor bugger picking up the begging of this thread thinking they might find the answer to the question proposed

There is no answer to the question. :wtf:

[Fridge]

There is no answer to the question. :wtf:

Damn you and your jedi mind tricks!!

[Adam]

25pg thread and still nothing solved lol lol

[Stuart]

25pg thread and still nothing solved lol lol


oh I dunno...

We know that

1) Mark is a poo poo eating male chicken muncher
2) Lee is good at killing engines, the environment, and enjoys being burnt
3) Small blocks are great
4) big blocks are ghey
5) meh

[Adam]

We knew that before the thread though? :wtf:






lol

[trackdaynova]

errr who agreed to that? lol

points 3 and 4 are the wrong way around lol