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burgo
02-12-08, 05:26 PM
first things first, ive used the search and looked through the guides but found nothing. so with that said please help

first problem working from the grommit along the engine bay side. along with the main thick red wire there is another two wires, one brown/green the other green/red. theres no plug on it and thats what i would like to put right.

thats the first please people

Adam
02-12-08, 05:29 PM
How soon do you need to know

Lee
02-12-08, 05:33 PM
Why do you need to put these right Luke, you dont need them to run the engine?

burgo
02-12-08, 05:35 PM
well thats the other thing lee i would like to chop out what i dont need but this means first identifying what everything is

burgo
02-12-08, 05:37 PM
i assume i dont need the fuel tank vent.

Lee
02-12-08, 05:38 PM
Best way to do that IMO is to get a wiring diagram of the pinouts from the ECU.

Then you'll know what are sensors and what are signal outs. All you'll be able to lose are the signal outs tbh, apart from the rev counter feed.

burgo
02-12-08, 05:39 PM
oooo yes a list of the ecu pin-outs is good as i can use my tester to trace them that way to identify them

Adam
02-12-08, 05:41 PM
i assume i dont need the fuel tank vent.
You do if you dont want a ecu light on

Lee
02-12-08, 05:43 PM
My haynes is in bristol :cry:

Someone here must have an XE haynes though. I know jacks got one, and he knows how to read it now too lol

Adam
02-12-08, 05:44 PM
Actually,saying that ive got a mk2 astra gte haynes Burgo.
I'll scan the wiring diag if you want?

Lee
02-12-08, 05:45 PM
Actually,saying that ive got a mk2 astra gte haynes Burgo.
I'll scan the wiring diag if you want?

So long as its the correct one.

Luke, have you got a pre lambda dizzy, post lambda dizzy or a dispack loom there?

burgo
02-12-08, 05:47 PM
if you could please mate

also i have access to a tech2 with a permission dongle, so could i just plug it in and turn off the requirements for the bull**** like the tank vent?

burgo
02-12-08, 05:47 PM
ive got a lambda, dispak one

Adam
02-12-08, 05:48 PM
Dont think you can turn things off as simple as that.


The diag in this manual is for motronic 2.5, dizzy xe.....

Lee
02-12-08, 05:49 PM
That wont be in the MK2 haynes than :(

burgo
02-12-08, 05:49 PM
might still be helpful though adam

i know you can turn off the immobilisor as simple as that ;)

Sloth
02-12-08, 05:57 PM
it sounds like the octane selector plug matey.

burgo
02-12-08, 09:06 PM
good call sloth

right i need a pic of the part of the diagram for the dispak and ignition modual as this bit of loom is buggered

Sloth
02-12-08, 10:32 PM
heres the wiring diag for dis
http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp138/sloth_mk1_cav/DSC00037.jpg

not sure what the octane plug looks like though

burgo
02-12-08, 11:02 PM
thats no fair! i cant hate you now :( infact i think i love you. thank you very very muchly

burgo
02-12-08, 11:06 PM
i would say x54 is the ron plug

Sloth
02-12-08, 11:25 PM
mate its what im here for, i have the dizzy wiring too if that helps?
any other infoi have the cav mk3 staynes manuel, can post bits up.

Sloth
02-12-08, 11:29 PM
yep thats it. oooh i feel good lol

Rich
04-12-08, 10:08 PM
tech 2 will not be of any help as its only for 1997 cars onwards. You can use tech 1 but its not as in depth as turning things off lol It will only give codes/readings for checking things are working within limits.

ck
05-12-08, 04:41 AM
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i95/ckallis500/05122008889.jpg

burgo
05-12-08, 05:03 AM
FTW :D cheers ck

Dod
05-12-08, 10:04 AM
Wow, this is a wiring question I could have answered had I seen it in time. DAMN!!

Jack
05-12-08, 11:15 AM
Someone here must have an XE haynes though. I know jacks got one, and he knows how to read it now too lol
Cheeky fecker, wiring diagrams is one thing I can do!

Mine's a cav one, and I have it next to my home computer along with my nova one - if I'm online and you need anything more burgo let me know.

The Simps
05-12-08, 11:30 AM
I'm suprised it ran right without the RON plug wired in.

ck
05-12-08, 12:47 PM
they run fine without them lol dont know why but they do.

even on the smaller engines. a few mate have bought cars without any ron plug fitted, i think some people must unplug them for a laugh or something lol

Sloth
05-12-08, 01:22 PM
all the ron plug does is earths a certain wire or not dependant on which way you turn it. on any vaux with one thats also got a knock sensor, i.e the xe, the sensing is done by the knock sensor, which advances or retards the timing, dependant upon knock, ie pre ignition. so the ron plug is redundant. hence why it runs without it. on spi's i.e 1.2's, the ron plug is there to deciefer between 91 ron (leaded) and 95(unleaded), a good trick is to find a 98 ron plug and fit that, as it advances the timing a bit more. put tescos 99 in and feel the difference.

ck
05-12-08, 02:03 PM
yes the ron plug will earth a certain wire but each different ron plug has a different resistance for each ron rating.

Lee
05-12-08, 02:06 PM
deciefer between 91 ron (leaded) and 95(unleaded), .
4 star was 98 ron, so why would there be two different octane plugs?

EDIT 2 star and regular unleaded were 91 ron, but 2 star was rare and regular unleaded was pretty much never sold?

ck
05-12-08, 02:55 PM
there are many different octane plugs.

lots of xe's had them with only A on one side and B on the other.

where as most have either 95 on one side nd 98 on the other or 91 on one side and 95 on the other.

this goes for brown octane plugs.

i have also seen the same in white octane plugs and black octane plugs.

dont have a clue what the colour is all about lol

burgo
05-12-08, 06:01 PM
topbuzz for a guide to ron plugs

mayhem
05-12-08, 06:07 PM
My haynes is in bristol :cry:

Someone here must have an XE haynes though. I know jacks got one, and he knows how to read it now too lol

i posted a haynes c20xe part about 1 year ago, and was downloaded by about 40 people from herelol

Adam
05-12-08, 06:14 PM
there are many different octane plugs.

lots of xe's had them with only A on one side and B on the other.

where as most have either 95 on one side nd 98 on the other or 91 on one side and 95 on the other.

this goes for brown octane plugs.

i have also seen the same in white octane plugs and black octane plugs.

dont have a clue what the colour is all about lol
XEs dont have ron plugs, because they have a knock control system.
A + B plugs are to run different engine emission maps

Rich
05-12-08, 10:57 PM
Late xe have A & B not sure which is better

Early have normal RON plugs 95/98 my last had i think?

burgo
06-12-08, 07:45 AM
so if A and B change the emsion map which is better ? A, B or none at all?

The Simps
06-12-08, 09:53 AM
If in doubt always go for "C".

Sloth
06-12-08, 10:51 AM
none because the knock sensor overrides the ron plug. was told this by a vaux tech in the family(what i posted earlier, and this)
lee i think i got 95 and 91 the wrong way round...... lol i.e 95 is premium leaded. the topbuzz link is very good. remember the early xe and ne's were built when unleaded first came out, so 91 was common then, hence why lots of plugs are 91/95. so whats the best one to use? ie colour resistance?

Adam
06-12-08, 03:24 PM
so if A and B change the emsion map which is better ? A, B or none at all?
Leave it on A(the side with the clip is the active side)
Side B runs a conservative map to reduce emissions and engine noise for other eu countries.

"none because the knock sensor overrides the ron plug. was told this by a vaux tech in the family(what i posted earlier, and this)"
Lol, if it has a knock sensor it has NO ron plug, because a ron plug is a manual version of a knock sensor, where the sensor tells the ecu what to do with the timing instead of you swapping the plug to tell it. :thumb:
Ron plugs are a 80s thing

Sloth
06-12-08, 04:09 PM
Leave it on A(the side with the clip is the active side)
Side B runs a conservative map to reduce emissions and engine noise for other eu countries.

"none because the knock sensor overrides the ron plug. was told this by a vaux tech in the family(what i posted earlier, and this)"
Lol, if it has a knock sensor it has NO ron plug, because a ron plug is a manual version of a knock sensor, where the sensor tells the ecu what to do with the timing instead of you swapping the plug to tell it. :thumb:
Ron plugs are a 80s thing err so why does all xe's have ron plugs? and knock sensors?

Adam
06-12-08, 04:41 PM
They dont.
They have A/B brown plugs, which looks identical to a ron plug, but it isn't one.
I have a dispak xe loom, and a astra gte xe loom here, neither have ron plugs, both have A/B plugs

Sloth
06-12-08, 05:03 PM
my 88 20xe has a 95/98 ron plug and a knock sensor. the loom and ecu and ron plug are 100% orig.

Benn
06-12-08, 05:11 PM
Maybe some ones put a ron plug on it insted...

Adam
06-12-08, 05:14 PM
Neither of my looms have one

Benn
06-12-08, 05:20 PM
I've had 5 xes, early and late, 20xe and c20xe and none of them have had a ron plug.

Sloth
06-12-08, 05:32 PM
meh it runs ok so i dunno. lol was told its correct tho.

Benn
06-12-08, 05:33 PM
Yeah but its bellend told you it was correct them thats not much scope...

Sloth
06-12-08, 05:48 PM
wtf does that mean? /\

Benn
06-12-08, 05:57 PM
As in if the person telling you knows nothing, then what they tell you isnt of much help..

Sloth
06-12-08, 06:14 PM
so a vaux tech with 20 years vaux experience and other makes experience knows nowt? aye ok then.:thumb: oh and he desnt talk **** to me, hes my uncle who raised me from 6. but hey what does know?;)

burgo
06-12-08, 06:31 PM
sloth i know a hell of alot of main dealer techs and nearly all of them give there opinion as gospel. im not saying he knows **** all but not everyone is right all of the time.

if you look at that ron plug guide it does say you can use the ron plugs instead of the A/B plugs to get different results

Sloth
06-12-08, 06:40 PM
hey man i know i read the guide. poss add it to the bit in faq's? nice estate btw. ( i wasnt having a go at anyone in the last post btw) i r grumpy sloth today. lol

burgo
06-12-08, 06:40 PM
one example of crap "technicians" i was speaking to someone at work once about my car and a freshly qualified technician was also there. i was telling the other bloke how i was gonna take the jets out of my carb and clean them as it wasnt running right when this fully qualified technician pipes up and says what the hell are jets!!!!

p.s. its not an estate its a van

Sloth
06-12-08, 06:42 PM
excellent! i like that. i had to explain what a serpent belt was once to a workshop foreman........i was a first year apperntice at the time!
nice estate btw

Adam
06-12-08, 07:19 PM
No offence meant to anyone here, but 80% of all "mechanics/technicians" i've talked to know f**k all.
If they cant plug a computer into the car to read a fault code, then they dont know lol lol

But heh, they've got certificates, so that means they iz experts huh ;)

Sloth
06-12-08, 07:32 PM
aye i know the type adam. nowt like real world spannering... xe conversions, in winter, in 3inch of snow, with 2 scissor jacks and bricks and a scaff bar and rope ftw. lol

The Simps
06-12-08, 11:31 PM
Most are technicians or fitters these days. A mechanic in my mind is someone who pulls something apart and fixes it. These days it more economical to just replace things.

ck
07-12-08, 04:18 PM
most xe's ive seen have had ron plugs. i would say about 50% have had A/B plugs and 50% had ron plugs (all brown on XE's tho)

Sloth
07-12-08, 04:20 PM
mines yellow..................
im different lol

Rich
07-12-08, 04:58 PM
No offence meant to anyone here, but 80% of all "mechanics/technicians" i've talked to know f**k all.
If they cant plug a computer into the car to read a fault code, then they dont know lol lol

But heh, they've got certificates, so that means they iz experts huh ;)

I kinda agree with that if its an older car. The trouble is, if i gave you a 58 plate astra and said it intermittently cuts out hot or cold where would you start?

Im a vauxhall 'technician', but without being able use a tech 2 on a new car theres no chance in hell we could fix it without guessing at things.

Adam
07-12-08, 05:15 PM
Yeah, i agree. Nowadays with stuff like Tech2, people working in garages/dealerships no longer really need to know a huge amount to do their job.

Rich
07-12-08, 05:26 PM
The other thing is main dealers dont see old cars anymore. We see the odd nova/mk2/3 astra buts thats it. So somone (like myself) will not have experience on the older cars so its not actually that persons fault as theres no way of them learning.

Main reason i wanted to jack it in as i was fed up of what i had to work on.

Anyways back on topic now