Removing this...... Good or Bad!

[jord4n]

Hi

Just been looking through this project ruthless's Wip and saw this and thought is this a good idea to remove it and dose it affect the car's structurally in any way.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll227/photon_09/PICT0184.jpg

Jordan

[Adam]

You can only do that if your fitting side mounted seats, and then weld rails across from the transmission tunnel to the sill.

[Mike]

No effects at all, it just supplies a front anchor point for both seats.

[jord4n]

No effects at all, it just supplies a front anchor point for both seats.

Thorught so, just wanted to make sure tho, as im fitting side mounted seats

thanks

jordan

[Mike]

Remove the chunky metal seat mounting on the trans tunnel aswell then, they weight a tonne lol

[jord4n]

i was thinking the same, give me a few mins to sketch up some other points iv got on seat mounting.

[jord4n]

Right just done this quick sketch to show my idear for side seat mounts,
insted of welding 2 bars between the tunnel and inner cill to mount the side mounts on. i can get some longer ones lazer cut to any size and shape i want out of anything thay have on the shelf, which can be bolted to the floor pan directly or with some nice plates welded tot he floor.

dose this seam a like it will work

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq310/jord4n/Novaseatmounts7.jpg

Ps im trying to upload the pic but .DWG to PDF then to Jpeg dosnt seam to work anyone want to try if i email u the jpeg

Edit done it worked when converted to .Bmp

[Adam]

It will sit the seats low though..........
And the floor is thin as fook, hence why it has those re-enforcement bars as standard.

[jord4n]

It will sit the seats low though..........
And the floor is thin as fook, hence why it has those re-enforcement bars as standard.

not if i get the side mounts laser cut to what i want, and re-enforce the floor with some thicker plate.

it just seamed a easyer way to get my seats in

jordan

[Mike]

^ re-inforcing the floor with thicker plate defeated the object of removing the centre strenght bar to save weight though.

DO NOT simply bolt the side mounts to the floor pan, as you will easily rip them clean out in low speed accidents!

Get yourself some 1x1" box section, weld from inner cill to trans tunnel. Bolt side mounts straight onto that. Job done.

[jimbob-mcgrew]

yeh the floorpans prob not strong enough to go straight down on, i dont know what conversion kits are like, but if your doing it yourself, might be best off either bolting or welding those L-brackets to the existing seat rails as adding plates or bars here and there will prob come to more than standard weight once its been replaced, decent diagram by the way. let us know how you get on

edit: actually yeh mike, i mis-read first time round, if he scrapped all the standard plate, then welded 2 bars along the floor from end to end, to bolt / weld the L-brackets to. might save a kilo ish once youve done both sides ?

i wonder what pieces of flat plate would be like on the weight scale compared to box section, i think it may weight slightly less, plus distribute the weight more evenly over the floorpan.

this is where science and engineering gets involved lol

[loggyboy]

Aslong as the harnesses are secured to good structural points, the Seats only need to be 'as well' secured as the orginals, and in fact even less so as the orginal seats were part of the seatbelt securing mechanism.

[Mike]

^ true yes, but IMO it seems a little bit of a bodge though, "insecurly" (if you will) securing the seats aslong as the harnesses are proper mounted.

Personally, I'd fcuk the OE slider mounts off, weld some box section or tube stock from inner cill to trans tunnel. From past experience, never compromise on safety however trivial it is.

[FUSION X16XE]

Take Mikes advise surely thats easier and cheaper than getting plates cut?

I bolted my seats through the floor, but i will not do that again, granted they were still in place after a pretty heavy crash but that floor is sooo thin!

[jimbob-mcgrew]

^ nice, someone with crash dummy experience on the matter.
in that case id say yeh ditch the existing stuff and weld in 4 pieces of flat plate where the mounting points for the seat will go. thinking about it, should be stronger than standard anyhow as the origional rails are only just spot welded on.

[Mike]

Take Mikes advise surely thats easier and cheaper than getting plates cut?

I bolted my seats through the floor, but i will not do that again, granted they were still in place after a pretty heavy crash but that floor is sooo thin!

Case in point :thumb: at 30mph, your body weight is almost tripled when you hit a stationary object! However, when you hit the dashboard, you'll stop, where as your internal organs will carry on until they hit your ribcage thus incredibly increasing the chances of literally tearing the main arteries to your heart/lungs/liver to bits.

[Andy]

Thats true its on a radio advert i heard.

[Mike]

Thats true its on a radio advert i heard.

Its very true, and very deadly. A good friend of mine from my local motorclub found this out, and subseqeuntly, god rest his sole, he is now very dead.

http://www.expressandstar.com/2007/02/12/rally-crash-driver-dies/

[michael squeak]

and a telly advert , looks disgusting

[jord4n]

yeh the floorpans prob not strong enough to go straight down on, i dont know what conversion kits are like, but if your doing it yourself, might be best off either bolting or welding those L-brackets to the existing seat rails as adding plates or bars here and there will prob come to more than standard weight once its been replaced, decent diagram by the way. let us know how you get on

edit: actually yeh mike, i mis-read first time round, if he scrapped all the standard plate, then welded 2 bars along the floor from end to end, to bolt / weld the L-brackets to. might save a kilo ish once youve done both sides ?

i wonder what pieces of flat plate would be like on the weight scale compared to box section, i think it may weight slightly less, plus distribute the weight more evenly over the floorpan.

this is where science and engineering gets involved lol

thanks drawing was done on cad N.T.S by the way, lol

with regards to weight i was thinking the same as plate welded to the floor would be less the the box.

its not all to to with wieght saving in my eyes even tho, id rather survive a crash then go faster into it.


Take Mikes advise surely thats easier and cheaper than getting plates cut?

can get anything cut for nothing as long as i do the drawings for it.


Personally, I'd fcuk the OE slider mounts off, weld some box section or tube stock from inner cill to trans tunnel. From past experience, never compromise on safety however trivial it is.

i will be just getting some 1" box and welding in as you say, just seeing what peoples views where on bolting to plates welded to the floor where.

jordan

[draper]

No effects at all, it just supplies a front anchor point for both seats.

not exactly true imo, it adds rigidity between the sills and centre of the car, with it removed (and mounting the seats the way you planned) means the floor pan is taking all the strengh, hello twisty lol

if you are removing it you need to weld some box across

[Mike]

i will be just getting some 1" box and welding in as you say, just seeing what peoples views where on bolting to plates welded to the floor where.

jordan

Good man. Where the box section joins inner cill/trans tunnel, firstly weld a steel plate 2x2" (spreader plate) THEN weld 1x1" box section centrally at each end onto said spreader plate.

[Mike]

not exactly true imo, it adds rigidity between the sills and centre of the car, with it removed (and mounting the seats the way you planned) means the floor pan is taking all the strengh, hello twisty lol

if you are removing it you need to weld some box across

Hhhmmmm, possibly but I've/we've never expereienced any twistyness with floorpans on rally cars? But we do weld box setion in for seat rails mind and a 12 point weld in cage lol

[jord4n]

so cutting this out and welding in the seat rails will counter taking it out.

[draper]

so cutting this out and welding in the seat rails will counter taking it out.

yes, and actually be more secure/stiff

[Mike]

It works perfectly enough for me? So I'd say yes. If you ever look at a Group A Nova/Corsa you'll notice there missing :thumb:

[Sturge]

Get some bosses turned and welded into the box section too, add's a massive amount of strength!

We use tube rather than box, but the principle's the same.

BTW as a sidenote, if it's getting built for competition the standard seat rails must now be left in place unless the car's already log booked :)

[jord4n]

Get some bosses turned and welded into the box section too, add's a massive amount of strength!

We use tube rather than box, but the principle's the same.

BTW as a sidenote, if it's getting built for competition the standard seat rails must now be left in place unless the car's already log booked :)

bosses? as in plates that act as pads for the seat rails to weld tot hen weld that to the cills and tunnel.


what happens then if uv got a old car with no standard seat rails, wants to become a competition car ?

jordan

[Mike]

MSA regs say you can only use side mounted seats now anyway, so even, as you say, old cars with no OE seat rails, you'll still have to weld your own in anyway.