View Full Version : GM soon to go bust?
Rick Draper
09-11-08, 06:35 PM
Been hearing a lot while in the USA about the health of General Motors. A lot of news channels were saying they might soon slip into liquidation. Now if this happens then its going to vauxhall with them.
TBH i cannot see anyone buying either company as its not the time to be getting into the car business at the moment.
Are we going to see another rover?
Fookin hell times must be bad! GM is something like the 4th/5th largest car manufacturer in the world!
They've been looking to go into partnership with another big player so probably not very healthy!
Any gen on said "other" player?
Ford was the first one they approached, more a gm takeover of ford than anything else as they're in more trouble. Was either Toyota or Mitsi that the more recent rumours involved, seemed fairly possible
I doubt a corporation that big would just roll over and die. Rover was tiny by the end of it all.
If anything it will segregate and its parts will be sold off seperately. Im pretty sure if ford got the oppertunity to buy its closest rival it would jump at the chance, despite being in the same doo doo.
What that would do to vauxhall itself I have no idea, but I doubt it would be good!
The main reason for it's the same as the unnoficial merger of bm and merc, to cut down on costs by sharing info and using more common parts
TBH i rekon a car that had the best bits from a focus ST and an Astra VXR would be quite a contraption :)
gm is too big for the us government to just stand by & let it collapse, they have a rule called chapter 11, which is a government backed official state of administration.
it has been losing money for decades in the us, but this could be a tax fiddle,
the 'big' three are all struggling in their home markets as is toyota.
chrysler is no longer owned by daimler benz, ford has been linked with a merger with bmw, gm has been linked with a merger with chrysler......
the simple problem is this, the big us brands are not making vehicles that americans want, they are now paying tons more for fuel (thanks dubya) and diesel has got a real stigma over there, which is why toyota came up with the prius, which is not as green & good as most modern european turbodiesels
Rick Draper
09-11-08, 06:49 PM
Ford was the first one they approached, more a gm takeover of ford than anything else as they're in more trouble. Was either Toyota or Mitsi that the more recent rumours involved, seemed fairly possible
Sorry but GM are in far worse health than Ford. GM are burning $2B per month!
wont happen - Obama has already promised a serious package to support the car industry in America.
If Vauxhall are struggling then Opel will be struggling too and I aint heard owt about them. Vauxhall/Opel although linked to GM are effectively a standalone franchise of the big American giant. there maybe some knock off effect but that's more to do with downturn in European markets rather then US issues.
Bet then again - who knows what the hells going on!
Rick Draper
09-11-08, 06:52 PM
I doubt a corporation that big would just roll over and die. Rover was tiny by the end of it all.
If anything it will segregate and its parts will be sold off seperately. Im pretty sure if ford got the oppertunity to buy its closest rival it would jump at the chance, despite being in the same doo doo.
What that would do to vauxhall itself I have no idea, but I doubt it would be good!
I can see the US government bailing out GM but forcing them to cut all other parts of the business loose. After all they have to look after the jobs in there own country other than worrying about anyone else.
I just at this moment in time cannot see anyone wanting to buy vauxhall if they came on the market:(
TBH i rekon a car that had the best bits from a focus ST and an Astra VXR would be quite a contraption :)
you mean, take a Focus ST 3, get the dealer fit Mountune bits.... and maybe slap on some nurburgring stickers off the Astra. :thumb:
I've been hearing of the trouble "we" (automotive people) are in for years now... Ford posting huge losses in the US but being offset by the Fiesta and Transit keeping Europe uber profitable (and therefore offsetting the US losses), and similar with GM posting huge losses year on year. Thing is, GM have big savings/assests whereas Ford dosent so much.
Also think about if an OEM falls on its ass..... What about their suppliers who rely on big volumes of sales for peanuts to turn a profit etc. Thankfully who I work for dosent supply to GM (although we have quoted for a few things they want to implement world wide), but we do sort of supply to Ford despite their best attempts lol.
I'd guess that GM will be split back down into its constituent parts that make it up and have GM as more the admin side of things. I'd expect Vauxhall/Opel could make a viable go of it on their own with some platform/engine support from the USA (much how Ford of Europe operates).
I can see the US government bailing out GM but forcing them to cut all other parts of the business loose. After all they have to look after the jobs in there own country other than worrying about anyone else.
I just at this moment in time cannot see anyone wanting to buy vauxhall if they came on the market:(
Aye. Probably more a case of being unable to buy rather than not wanting to :(
Rick Draper
09-11-08, 06:55 PM
G.M. said it lost $4.2 billion during the quarter, excluding special charges, and its cash hoard shrank by $6.9 billion during the three-month period, leaving it perilously close to the minimum levels needed to finance its operations.
Does not look good.
Rick Draper
09-11-08, 06:59 PM
Thing is, GM have big savings/assests whereas Ford dosent so much.
The situation at Ford, the second-biggest American automaker, is not as dire as at G.M.
Ford is also using up cash at a surprising rate — $7.7 billion in the third quarter. But Ford executives said much of the cash was spent on one-time actions related to promoting the company’s new F-150 pickup truck.
The automaker, based in the Detroit suburb Dearborn, said it ended the quarter with $18.9 billion in cash, and had another $10.7 billion available on its credit lines.
Mr. Mulally declined to identify Ford’s minimum cash level. The automaker is moving to increase its cash by as much as $17 billion by cutting more jobs, eliminating bonuses for salaried workers in 2009 and reducing its capital expenditures.
“Ford has the ability to weather the storm a bit longer than G.M.,” Mr. Merkle said. “But if G.M. has to file bankruptcy that really puts the supply base in jeopardy, and it’s an industrywide problem at that point.”
G.M. said Friday that its revenue fell 13 percent in the third quarter, to $37.9 billion, and it ended the period with $16.2 billion in cash reserves. The company said it needed $11 billion to $14 billion at any given time to pay its bills and run its global operations.
There you go. GM hare in a worse position. They was rumor of them pulling out of the racing they do in the USA.
novacabrio
09-11-08, 07:11 PM
Management buy out of Vauxhall and Opel?
lol that classic "one time actions"..... that always seem to backfire.
So basically GM are admitting they're in the brown stuff, and Ford are pretending they're not but only really kidding themselves lol
Rick Draper
09-11-08, 07:14 PM
Management buy out of Vauxhall and Opel?
Like the one at rover a few years back?:( Back then the automotive industry was in imho better health than it is these days.
Vauxhall would be sold off under Opel no doubt - they don't have any real unique models of their own.
gm is too big for the us government to just stand by & let it collapse, they have a rule called chapter 11, which is a government backed official state of administration.
Yep, for anyone who needs a recent example of how Chapter 11 can protect a company that has effectively gone bust, read up on what happened to SCO.
This (http://www.advfn.com/p.php?pid=financials&cb=1226257874&btn=sf_ok&symbol=NYSE%3AGM&sf_symbol_search=NYSE%3AGM&ss_symb=GM) is a handy page which gives stock exchange data on GM.
Delphi (GM's electronics division) went into Ch11 18-24 months ago or so... much fun :D the UK arms survived perfectly well (well as well as the UK auto industry permits lol)
There was rumor of them pulling out of the racing they do in the USA.
the sponsorship revenues & trade tie ins in nascar easily fund the racing, the corvettes in alms always confuse me. they regularly whip astons & ferraris, yet they don't aggressively sell them in the ferrari & aston's big markets
Vauxhall would be sold off under Opel no doubt - they don't have any real unique models of their own.
Yep, for anyone who needs a recent example of how Chapter 11 can protect a company that has effectively gone bust, read up on what happened to SCO.
This (http://www.advfn.com/p.php?pid=financials&cb=1226257874&btn=sf_ok&symbol=NYSE%3AGM&sf_symbol_search=NYSE%3AGM&ss_symb=GM) is a handy page which gives stock exchange data on GM.
I just tried to understand that link, I'm going to buy a blue shirt with a white collar & some red braces, then I might stand a chance......
Rick Draper
09-11-08, 07:22 PM
the sponsorship revenues & trade tie ins in nascar easily fund the racing, the corvettes in alms always confuse me. they regularly whip astons & ferraris, yet they don't aggressively sell them in the ferrari & aston's big markets
Well i am just passing on what was on espn the other day and no one was disagreeing with the speaker. He said very soon GM and Ford would withdraw from nascar and other forms of motorsport and it would be back to the early days.
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