welding

[turbojolt]

i want to teach my self how to weld hopefully it will help me in the future with project but what would be the best all round to start of with as there are so many different types of welds and i don't have a clue were to start



also what kind of welding is used to strengthen engine bays when putting in a 2.0 16v


thanks for you help in advance :thumb:

[Stoo]

do i need to say it?

google mate
theres loads of sites that will help!

[burgo]

mig welding is what you need and imo for a starter welder a 160 fan cooled welder is what you need. dont even entertain gasless crap either

[Stoo]

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/

[Mike]

migdont even entertain gasless crap either

To true! ONLY for a very very last resort (BUT not for any industrious strengthening etc) as gasless is TBH carp lol

[burgo]

you wont go far wrong spending a few hours on this site either
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/tutorial.htm

[turbojolt]

do i need to say it?

google mate
theres loads of sites that will help!


i am googling it at the same time mate but just want to hear what people have to say about on here as well

[turbojolt]

so you all think mig welding is the way to go then

[turbojolt]

To true! ONLY for a very very last resort (BUT not for any industrious strengthening etc) as gasless is TBH carp lol



would gas less not be good enought just for a bit of seam welding then

[craig green]

No, weld it properly.

[turbojolt]

what about for practice dose it react the same as a gas one

[Andy_L]

Have you got a gasless jobbie then?

[turbojolt]

no but with a quick look around they seem alot cheaper for mucking around with to get use to welding

[Andy_L]

no but with a quick look around they seem alot cheaper for mucking around with to get use to welding

And then you've got to buy a MIG welder when you want to do it for real so in the long term it will cost you more.

[turbojolt]

And then you've got to buy a MIG welder when you want to do it for real so in the long term it will cost you more.

i understand what you are saying but i could rent out a proper one when the time comes in the future and it will then cost me less :p

[Andy_L]

Gas vs Gas less

MIG needs some sort of shielding gas to keep oxygen away from the weld. The choices are gas shielded (oxygen is displaced by an inert or semi-inert (active) gas mix contained in a bottle), and flux cored wire (where a protective covering is produced by a compound included in the wire itself). There are advantages and disadvantages for each type of welding, but gas shielded is by far the nicer method to use, so unless you know you'll only want to weld with flux cored wire it makes sense to go for a welder that can do both, or a gas shielded only welder.
There's a page about gasless welding (http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/gasless-mig.htm), but in summary you can't see what you are doing, it spatters a lot, and needs the slag brushing off before painting. On the positive side it can be used outdoors in the wind just as effectively as indoors, and the weld quality and strength is OK once you get the hang of it.
Things become easier with gas shielding. You can see the weld pool, the welds are neater, there is less spatter. The disadvantages are the cost of gas for occasional users, and the need for wind shielding if welding outside.
Gas comes in different sizes and tends to be consumed at around 10 liters per minute. So the tiny disposable bottles costing £10 will last for 6 minutes of continuous welding (about 1m of weld). The BOC size X bottles hold 2,300 liters and cost £50 per year bottle rental plus £30 per bottle full of gas. For a car restoration that would take a year they work out at 1/5 of the price of the disposable bottles. Another alternative is to use CO2 from a friendly pub, or local welding suppliers might be able to provide a lower cost alternative to BOC or Air Products.
Differences between different gases are covered in the welding gas comparison (http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/welding-gas.htm).



Taken from www.mig-welding.co.uk

[Andy_L]

i understand what you are saying but i could rent out a proper one when the time comes in the future and it will then cost me less :p

If you only rent it once the yes but if you keep renting it no.

[turbojolt]

i do understand were you are coming from mate maybe i will just wait for a while and buy a gas one or if a dirt cheap none gas one pops up i have it lol

[meritlover]

buy a cheap MIG and have a play. thats the best way. then go back to the books for tips etc. if youve got any mechanical savvy then youl soon work it out. otherwise, they hold theyre value pretty well when you come to sell it.
gasless is crap, and stick is very difficult on a car and almost impossible on bodywork, even with the thinnest of rods

[turbojolt]

would this be any good


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SIP-06503-MIG-WELDER-80-COMPLETE-STARTER-KIT-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ200272642422QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item2 00272642422&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

[burgo]

in my opinion anything under 160amp is crap. dont get me wrong they do the job but using a bigger one its so much easier. you can buy a second hand 160amp welder for £100

[meritlover]

that doesnt look all that great. i cant see any proper current adjustment. and the high-low switches are useless. you also need a variable wire feed too.

[turbojolt]

that doesnt look all that great. i cant see any proper current adjustment. and the high-low switches are useless. you also need a variable wire feed too.


i thought it would be rubbish OK i have a look out for a cheap second hand one when i have some more loot to play with cheers guys

[loggyboy]

I started using my dads welder, just a basic mig (about 100amp iirc) which was an ok starting point. My initial welds were crap, but by the time id finished welding all the bits on my 1st XE i was 'ok'.
It wasnt till i started my 2nd XE when id moved out that i decided i needed my own welder, I paid £50 for a 2nd had 90amp gas/gasless Clarke welder off ebay. it came with some flux cored gassless wire and a basic gas regulator. I never used the gasless wire went straight for some M/S .6mm wire (.8 gives better welds generally, but found it kept getting stuck in my gun nozzle.)
I buy disposable bottles from Halfords at about £8-10 each and I think with right level of gas set on the regulator you could seam weld a Nova engine bay on less than 2 bottles. If your like me where you do random welding then its pointless getting a huge rented bottle, unless you know some in the industry. who can get you a bottle (or an old pub co2 bottle) and get it refilled.

The welds I produce with that basic package are more than adequate, they are sound and allthough they may not win in prizes for looks, but when the welding surfaces are good then they are neat enough.

As for technique, the link already posted is a good source of usefull info. However the only real way to get good is practice.

[burgo]

i have to disagree with you saying its pointless renting a big bottle.

cost me £30 to rent it and ive had it for years and only had one refill which costs £10.

[draper]

rented bottles are definatly the way to go, especially as a beginner as youll be wasted loads of gas 'practising'

first thing ill be doing when i get a new welder is sorting out a rental bottle

[turbojolt]

what are these bottles like color gas bottle as i already have one


like this click (http://www.cheshireleisure.co.uk/media/13kg.jpg)

[burgo]

no it wont be like that. go to your local calore gas place and tell them you want either pure C02 or C02/argon mix for mig welding and they will sort you out

[turbojolt]

all this gas stuff is it not a bit over kill to learn with

[burgo]

no did you not read what loggy put? gas makes it alot easier to weld. i had had quite abit of experience welding when i tried to use the gasless and i couldnt do it so how a newbie would do it i dont know

[Mike]

all this gas stuff is it not a bit over kill to learn with

No, its the proper way to do things :thumb:

[craig green]

all this gas stuff is it not a bit over kill to learn with

How could you learn with 1 method & expect to become good at another?

Lots of advice in this thread yet not much seems to be getting absorbed! :roll:

[turbojolt]

How could you learn with 1 method & expect to become good at another?

Lots of advice in this thread yet not much seems to be getting absorbed! :roll:


no i am mate believe me just i was talking to my brother about the bits of welding he use to do and he only ever use a non gas mig welder not for any thing big just little bits and bobs he just told me that's what he learnt on


also like i said i know nothing about this so i asked earlier if the welds gas and not react the same and i did not get a answer i was wondering if you only used gas on larger scale stuff



the only welding experience i have ever had was on a little bit of metal at collage and all that happen was i got the rod stuck to the metal like 10 times lol

[Sturge]

My main job is welding car bodyshells, including LOTS of seam welding. To put it in simple terms:

DO NOT USE A GASLESS SETUP

Get yourself a reasonable mig set, and rent a small bottle. You don't have to go as high as 150 amp but will give you a lot more scope for doing thicker stuff later on.

And if you were getting the rod stuck at college, chances are that was oxy acetylene (gas) welding, completely different from mig. Has it's uses but a lot trickier than mig and then you've got 2 bottles to rent and fill

[turbojolt]

My main job is welding car bodyshells, including LOTS of seam welding. To put it in simple terms:

DO NOT USE A GASLESS SETUP

Get yourself a reasonable mig set, and rent a small bottle. You don't have to go as high as 150 amp but will give you a lot more scope for doing thicker stuff later on.

And if you were getting the rod stuck at college, chances are that was oxy acetylene (gas) welding, completely different from mig. Has it's uses but a lot trickier than mig and then you've got 2 bottles to rent and fill


how small can i get one of these gas welders as i don't have loads of room to store some massive welding equipment

[Sturge]

For seam welding you're going to want a fan cooled one, so think about the size of the cardboard box a portable tv comes in minimum. You can get smaller portable units but they're not up to much and soon lose power as they heat up. Gas bottles aren't huge and will only be fixed to the welder if it's big enough to carry it

[Sturge]

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/151te-turbo-mig-welder/path/diy-mig-welders

realistically that's as small as i'd go

ETA: Having a look the 110 isn't too bad for the money as long as you're patient and can keep the torch off the surrounding metal as it's a live torch (the 151 is non live so no current passes into the shroud, so you're not arcing to every bit of metal nearby)

[Adam]

Do NOT buy a live torch model.
They should be banned imo, just a pointless idea.

[loggyboy]

Could someone exaplin live torch? ive not heard of this before

also, mine doenst have fan assitance and ive only ever got the overheat cut out to kick in twice.

[Adam]

Live torch is when the mig wire is ALWAYS live, you dont need to press a trigger to make it live.
So if you get the torch in position to start welding it will arc as soon as you get close to the metal..... Arc eye tastic
Basically like having the trigger pressed permanently.

[Sturge]

It certainly keeps you on your toes lol