View Full Version : Coilovers, alloy topmounts and thread
I've just got some Gaz coilovers which I'm going to fit eccentric topmounts to. However there doesn't seem to be enough thread on the piston to bolt the eccentric topmount all the way down to where it needs to be.
I'm waiting on a reply from the guy at Gaz as to what can be done, just wondered if any of you lot had any suggestions.
Here's where the topmount inserts will sit when the topmount is fitted:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/CoiloverInserts.JPG
As you can see the top threaded insert runs out of thread, so there's a gap below the bottom insert.
meritlover
06-11-08, 05:31 PM
try using a different nut, or machining the top mounts to allow a deeper insertion of the rod.
What do you mean a different nut? Those inserts are what came with the topmount, and they sit partially inside the bearing. The problem is the thread on the shock piston is too short to screw it down far enough to hit the 'fatter' part of the piston.
meritlover
06-11-08, 05:40 PM
well forgive me for not having a detailed schematic or drawing of the said parts close to hand. is it not that the top mount is too shallow rather than the piston being too short?
Does this explain it any better?
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/CoiloverInsertsAnnotated.JPG
If more of the piston was threaded, you could screw the top topmount insert further down (it's threaded inside all the way through), and so the topmount would sit flush against the fatter bit. Currently it won't sit down far enough so there's a gap between the bottom of the topmount and where the spring top can sit.
Rick Draper
06-11-08, 05:50 PM
Enlarge the hole in the lower spacer so it sits lower down then drill some of the thread out of the top spacer so it is able to go further down the shaft and tighten up properly.
meritlover
06-11-08, 05:53 PM
that or stick a spacer tube/washer to take up the clearence in the lower portion
krobinson
06-11-08, 06:01 PM
I had the same problem, so I turned the nut upside down and tightened it down, solved my problem. The lower "washer" thing still keeps the shock centered.
Keith
Rick I don't think there'd be any thread left if I were to drill the top insert enough for it to sit all the way down!
Keith, I just tried that before you posted actually, wasn't too sure on it not wobbling about though. I'll believe you if you say it works though lol
Thanks for the suggestions anyway. Might look in to a spacer to fill the gap underneath like dhdev off here has done:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e296/dhdev/Topmounts2.jpg
dhdev (Oli)
06-11-08, 06:34 PM
If you don't have any spacers to hand, use a nut that'll fit over the shaft and that should do. If you wanna be fancy you can even drill the thread out of it :eek:
Where would you go about getting a proper spacer like you've used?
Rick Draper
06-11-08, 06:43 PM
Drill the thread out till you get to the depth of the nutted part of the spacer.
The problems you have ran in to are the usual problems when fitting some eccentric top mounts to none motorsport spec struts.
Same prob with mine, i just got a couple of spacers knocked up to sit between the spring seat and top mount lower spacer thingy, also had to drill out a few threads on the nut to allow them to screw on further, never had any probs.
The top mounts are sold to suit a Nova but that has to cover a hell of a lot of aftermarket shocks so sometimes a bit of modification is needed.
Rich
dhdev (Oli)
06-11-08, 06:45 PM
I actually don't know :confused: If you hadn't posted that pic I'd have said that I used a nut as a spacer, must've got lucky and found the spacers in the workshop or something :confused:
Drill the thread out till you get to the depth of the nutted part of the spacer.
The problems you have ran in to are the usual problems when fitting some eccentric top mounts to none motorsport spec struts.
I get you now! Yeah just had a quick look and that'd be perfect, just leave the thread at the nutted end of the top insert. Then maybe a nut on top for good measure lol
Sounds like the best way to me, thanks muchly.
dhdev (Oli)
06-11-08, 06:50 PM
Would that make it sit 5mm lower :confused::cool:
R1CH yeah there's bound to be problems when you're mating 2+ aftermarket items all designed by different people. One time, just one time it may all fit perfectly first time. lol
Fair enough Oli, I'll try modifying the top insert before fitting spacers.
Would that make it sit 5mm lower :confused::cool:
I assume it would make it sit where it's supposed to sit, flush against the top spring seat. I guess it would sit lower than yours, but with height adjustable coilovers it shouldn't matter?
dhdev (Oli)
06-11-08, 06:52 PM
My last post was silly, should've stopped to think, it'll just mean the damper rod is 5mm more out of the body if that makes any sense :tard:
Even after you've drilled the top nut you'll still have to run spacers, as the lower spacer from the top mount is just gonna clamp on to the top of the damper rod rather than the spring seat, you'll need spacers so the lower spacer on the top mount clamps against the (black) spring seat.
Rick Draper
06-11-08, 06:55 PM
I get you now! Yeah just had a quick look and that'd be perfect, just leave the thread at the nutted end of the top insert. Then maybe a nut on top for good measure lol
Sounds like the best way to me, thanks muchly.
Can you tell i have been here before lol lol
Yes the lower topmount insert is clamped to the thicker part of the piston, and the black spring seat is pushed against this by the spring? As the topmount insert is thicker than the thick part of the piston.
Yes the lower topmount insert is clamped to the thicker part of the piston, and the black spring seat is pushed against this by the spring? As the topmount insert is thicker than the thick part of the piston.
Does it not sit on a lip on the piston slightly further down tho ? mine does.
I'd rather have that spring seat clmaped up to be honest rather than it just being loose on the piston (i know the spring holds it up, but if your running it low then when the cars unweighted it could then move around, causing the centre hole on the spring seat to wear, i bought my front dampers 2nd hand and thats what had happened to them).
There shouldn't be any need to fit another nut on top either, you'll only be taking a few mm of the thread away inside the nut ... there wont be any room to fit another nut ontop anyway.
The bottom insert goes all the way down to the fat part as shown in my first picture. I see what you're saying about the spring seat though, I'll look in to it when I get round to fitting them.
This is strange as I have Gaz coilovers and eccentic top mounts and didn't have any of these problems. Also managed to get another nut on top of the one that goes in the top mount. Guess my shocks may have been threaded further down or something.
ive had this problem a few times.. ive had spacers machined on a lathe to take up the gap, they were aprox 10mm think. other way i have done it is to use washers with the correct internal hole and used about 4 on each strut to fit the gap...
silvertornado_sr
07-11-08, 05:40 AM
you not got these on yet lol should have said matey would have come around and helped ;) i owe you a favour :)
I'm having a right bugger of a time trying to get them to tighten down nicely after I've drilled them out. Do you think it would be safe to fully drill the top insert out and put a nut on top of it all? (There's room for a thin one).
Rick Draper
09-11-08, 01:32 PM
If you do that and are sure there is space then its going to have to be a nylock nut.
silvertornado_sr
09-11-08, 04:12 PM
glad i helped you know ?????
Took a little bit off the length and got both fitted now. Thanks everybody.
I still need to make a spacer up for the top spring seat like R1CH suggested. No slamming yet lol
One last picture before I can let this thread die lol
Here's my modified top insert. The nut part is still threaded and I've cut it down to a similar size to the bottom one. If anybody has any concerns let me know before I fit them!
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/CoiloverInsertsModified.JPG
http://www.iainel.co.uk/images/forums/CoiloverInsertModified.JPG
Rick Draper
10-11-08, 12:46 PM
Thats fine.
so i was right again then iain :P
Thought I'd share my progress (if you can call it that) with you. Gaz emailed me back suggesting I fit the topmount directly over the spring platform seeing as it's probably the same size internal diameter as the piston, and voila it fits and holds the platform down (2 problems solved with 1 solution):
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/CoiloversTopmounts1.JPG
Bad news is there's quite a bit sticking through the topmount now:
http://iainel.co.uk/images/forums/CoiloversTopmounts2.JPG
And I think it's catching on the bonnet strengthening when I trial fitted it lol It sticks out way more than standard
My favoured option so far is to cut away the bonnet strengthening above the turrets to make space lol
Perfect excuse to get a FG bonnet ;)
peester
16-11-08, 06:02 PM
didnt know about this thread,..
so all this jiggery pokery to get gaz's to allow alloy top mounts..?
Yeah. In fairness they've said I can send them back with the topmounts and they'll sort them out to fit (I assume not for free?) but I'd prefer to get them fitted without sending them back.
Top thread imo iain, as i'm considering getting a set of top mounts for mine, which ones did you use? and where from?
Thanks. They're Compbrake eccentric topmounts, fitted to standard Gaz GHA coilovers.
How much iain, if you don't mind me asking? I'm using standard mounts atm, and it sits way high at the front, using the mounts as you do, i'm going to easily gain some more adjustment. What length, poundage are your springs?
They were £100 delivered for the topmounts. How much extra lowering it'll give would depend on how you fitted them I guess - if you can put them on top of the spring platform like above it'll give you a fair bit more, assuming it doesn't hit the bonnet :roll: lol
My fronts have 275lb 8" springs and the weight of a 1600 8v over them. Can't comment on how low mine goes though as I can't fit the buggers :(
I'd fit them the way you have, and lose some of the bonnet webbing. How close is it? there'll be no movement anyway, just shell flex. Sorry what have i missed why you can't fit them?
Just because of the bonnet clearance at the moment. I'll have a closer look at the clearance issues but I'd probably be okay with losing the strengthening. I'm just very worried how fragile the damping adjusters are on the top after snapping two off on Avos before lol
Yeah, i have to agree, mine feel a bit fragile too lol.
peester
16-11-08, 06:44 PM
those topmounts john are the newer version of the TAS ones you had on MUX, basically..
ta dave, they seem a hell of a lot cheaper now!lol
Why don't you just fit them with the lower spacer for the topmount (like its intended to be) and get a spacer made up to sit between the lower topmount spacer and spring platform ???
I've got a spare spacer from when i had some knocked up, i'll measure it for you if you want ?? (not that i'd be hard to figure out). Saves you having to hack your bonnet !!
Just trying what Gaz suggested as it seems a neater solution. I didn't like the fact a spacer and spring's weight would only be sitting on a tiny lip (the amount the bottom insert sticks out from the piston) too.
Not too fussed about hacking the bonnet up when I think about it, I'll just call it weight saving. :D
Which tiny lip you meaning ?
Mines ran like this for about 2 year (12k miles) without any probs, and its had a fair bit of hard use !!
nova ian
17-11-08, 10:53 AM
Iain, what are you doing about the whole topmount in the correct way but not able to get full adjustment or run them upside down on the circlip and get full adjustment saga??
Which tiny lip you meaning ?
Mines ran like this for about 2 year (12k miles) without any probs, and its had a fair bit of hard use !!
The small amount the bottom topmount insert sticks out over the fat part of the piston. Fair enough it's probably fine.
Iain, what are you doing about the whole topmount in the correct way but not able to get full adjustment or run them upside down on the circlip and get full adjustment saga??
That's a whole threads worth by itself lol
With the way the topmounts are currently mounted (on top of the spring platform), if I fit them circlip-on-top then they don't offer much pivot movement compared to the right way up, but they may give some more clearance above.
I'd prefer to fit them the right way up, and I'm currently pondering how to do this. Compbrake apparently don't have the customer service skills Gaz have, they assured me they'd fit without modifications and are now conveniently not replying to my emails when I ask them what to do.
Despite not getting back to my earlier emails, Compbrake emailed me back today saying:
Dear sir no difucation is needed yoiu must fit this with spacer underneath the bearing the very maximum yiu would ever need is 2 deg and the mount will go to 29 deg
So I assume it's possible to get 0-2 degrees without modifying the turret/topmount :confused:
peester
17-11-08, 11:18 PM
tbf, i only made progress with compbrake by ringing and speaking to the clever older chap (always busy) his name escapes me..
once we get that first 'how to' done - we'll be alright lol
Another trial fit shows they do hit the bonnet, see the scratch in the red caused by me closing the bonnet and moving the strut around.
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm85/iainel/Coilovers/IMG_7211.jpg?t=1227045352
Should give about an inch clearance if I lop the bonnet strengthening off so that'll do for now for a trial run, will get spacers as per R1CHs suggestions if I'm not happy. :thumb:
Be 'reet with that bar removed
Come on iain, cut it out so we can see how the car sits!
I told him crack on with it about 3 days ago lol
But then again im hardly cracking on fitting this xe, pmsl lol lol lol
John, mine aren't going to end up that low either (good job I bought them for handling improvements and not slamming!). Here's them literally sitting on the bump stops (I think, can't get my head up to check)
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm85/iainel/Coilovers/IMG_7238.jpg?t=1227208692
So they'll be going higher than that to get travel. How much travel would be needed with 275lb springs?
ERM, thats SLAMMED compared to my avo's
Mine sits an inch higher fully down, with no bump stops.
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